Kamnet's ideabox

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Quast65
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Quast65 » 06 Jun 2018 14:00

Captain Rand wrote:The only problem with this is, as the train is longer than the station, it will take a long time to load. I've seen a very simple patch that removes this restriction elsewhere on the forum (can somebody link to it? I can't find it).
This is how I did it a long time ago:

I found that this feature/penalty/restriction is in the economy.cpp file that can be found in the SRC folder of an uncompiled OTTD source. I opened that file with a texteditor and searched for "overhang". And then deleted the lines marked in blue:
03.png
03.png (76.16 KiB) Viewed 1530 times
Then I compiled it, which worked fine for me (at least with release version 24031, might not work with other versions)


EDIT:
I think I found the patch you were talking about:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47147&hilit=overhang+patch
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by wallyweb » 06 Jun 2018 14:41

Another option might be "through loading". There is some discussion over in JRG's Patchpack topic.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Captain Rand » 07 Jun 2018 06:43

Thanks Quast, that was the one.

While I'm here.....
The overhang patch is also very useful if you want to build a subway station. The station tile only needs to be one tile long, and an overlay only needs to be three tiles long - One over the station and one each side of it to cover tunnel entrances.
There are no problems with trains appearing to overhang platforms as they're hidden anyway.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 29 Jan 2019 02:18

Leaving this here as a future note to myself to look at the layout of the Pan American Seaport in Miami.
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/FL/Air ... iami_C.htm

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[IDEA] SkyWay elevated rail

Post by kamnet » 31 May 2019 20:34

So over the last two decades there's been this company, SkyWay, that's had a proposal for a unique elevated light transport system, with woven steel cables encased in concrete beams ("string rail"). As a technology, it's not been proven and there are doubts as to whether or not it's feasible. As a company, for years they've been plagued with financial issues and have resorted to crowd funding and even multilevel marketing as sources of funding, mostly unsuccessful. Still, over the last few years they've managed to get into the ears of transport ministers around the globe to float project ideas... only for them to be cancelled because of scrutiny over the legality of the deals. But it appears that UAE has finally given them a go-ahead to build a real system.

Their current proposed technology looks really interesting. This initially started as a type of suspended monorail, but the current proposal is a suspended dual infrastructure track. On the bottom will be suspended monorail carriages that travel bi-directional up to 150 kmh for local/urban/metro service. However, on top of these it will also have a dual-rail carriage with speeds up to 500 kmh for long haul high speed rail service.

Pulling this off visually wouldn't be a big task, the main issue is how to actually make it work. It would make the most sense to code this as two different track types. The bottom clearly would be tramtype and you're just building a suspended monorail. But for the top? Well since the proposal is for a dual-rail system, most obvious is to make that an elevated railroad track. Here's the problem - you can't have train and tram lines running over the same tiles and you can't build a station for one in the right-of-way of the other. So, you might have to compromise and fictionalize this a bit more - make the top rail a straddle monorail and build it as a roadtype (or, reverse them). That makes it possible to build both types of stations on the same right-of-way, and you can retain the stunning visual effects.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by acs121 » 31 May 2019 21:39

So... If i understood correctly, on a normal line, small, one-rail vehicles would run in one direction per rail on the bottom, while on the top, double-rail vehicles would use the same structure as the one-rail ones (but on the top), at higher speeds.

Basing myself on this picture :
Image

I think there should be a few... sprite complicated stuff.
Let's say the entire structure should be considered as catenary, except the 2 top rails (I'll explain why).
This means the bottom vehicles have to be aligned with the bottom rails. Since the structure will overlap them a bit, they will have a totally normal look.
Meanwhile, the top vehicles should have a different sprite alignment, on top of the two rails, which would be considered as rails - the top vehicles wouldn't be overlapped by the catenary because they are on top of the rails, which are on top of the catenary.

However, this still means the bottom vehicles block the top vehicles... but that's still a solution. Not really good because of the last point, but still a bit functional.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by wallyweb » 31 May 2019 22:12

The suspended monorail has already been done. It was first done by Zephyris, and then it was updated by me. Without NRT, there are some problems. In opengfx0+base, there are no tram stops. It defaults to the road stops with track and catenary as overlays. Without GRF Specifications or NML specifications it remains unclear if each tram type can have its own tram stop. Also, redrawing the catenary as suspended monorail track means that regular trams would have to use that track as catenary. Is this still true under NRT? Again, specification documentation remains to be done. As for rail above the suspended monorail, this can be done with bridges. JGR's patch pack supports bridges over stations. It might be difficult to have combined stations though considering that there is not yet support for stations on bridges.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 01 Jun 2019 05:33

acs121 wrote:So... If i understood correctly, on a normal line, small, one-rail vehicles would run in one direction per rail on the bottom, while on the top, double-rail vehicles would use the same structure as the one-rail ones (but on the top), at higher speeds.
Well, it depends on the application. The initial technology for string rail was a pair of lightweight rails that were light and strong enough that they didn't need as many structural support pillars, and thus sagged just a little, with a vehicle riding completely on top of the rails. Then they modified the technology so that it also worked with a suspended vehicle utilizing both rails. Eventually they improved that so they could use only one rail. And now they have a new design which combines all of those aspects into a stiffer suspension, so that it can simultaneously support a single vehicle riding on both rails on the top, and support either a dual-rail suspended vehicle, a single monorail vehicle, or two monorail vehicles running on each individual rail. The monorail vehicles will be smaller and lighter in size.

I'm not worried about the lack of station variants or the fact that vehicles on the different tracks will impede each other. That's just the nature of road/tramtypes for right now and I'll take what I can get.

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[IDEA] Electrical power

Post by kamnet » 27 Oct 2019 12:43

So I've been mulling this over ever since SuperCheese released Wires several years ago. Go read that link to get a bare basic idea of where I'm going.
Supercheese wrote:
13 Nov 2012 09:19
As mentioned over yonder, making a grf that adds an electricity cargo, produced by power stations and delivered to other industries is entirely within the realm of possibility. Making a new "powerline" railtype with "vehicles" that run on it similar to the PIPE grf's representative "arrows" (or for powerlines, "sparks" feel more appropriate) is also entirely possible.
Building on that, now in 2019 we just got the ability to add many more inputs and outputs for industries, as well as more industries and more cargo slots, which makes adding electricity a no-brainer, and also making it a requirement for cities to grow just like water and food. My basic idea is to keep it simple. A power station accepts certain things to generate power, and all it generates is electricity (maybe district heat?) for direct delivery to industries and to power sub stations within a town zone to fulfill town growth. We can also borrow SuperCheese's idea of different types of "vehicles" representing different power levels.

Where I depart is that I am suggesting that it be a TramType instead of a RailType, for a few reasons. First it immediately offers bi-directional flow of vehicles within a single tile. Second, no dealing with signals, and you can cram as many vehicles as you need to and they'll just queue. Vehicles will flow so fast that it really won't matter. And with up to 64 RaodTypes/TramTypes available, I think visually it just works better.

Wanna make it more fun? Develop both an above-ground version with wires, and an underground version to bury them. And, heck, combine PIPES with it while you're at it, now we can pretend we have buried utilities. :) Heck, let's also upgrade our mail system with electronic messaging (which you can go all the way back to the telegraph!) to help move more mail.

Here's a handy timeline of power generation, with some ideas on generation. Yep, I know that my numbers aren't "realistic" but I think they work fine for gameplay. I also know this is a lot, but darn it I've spent the last 8 hours researching the entire history of electrical power production and it just needs mentioned! I probably need more information about gravity damn hydroelectric plants, maybe on oil-fired plants too. And probably most of this doesn't make sense for gameplay.

1881: First hydroelectric plant built on canals comes online. Requires nothing but must be built on river or canal, generates 100 kW/day per turbine.
1882: First coal-fired steam power plant comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 2,000 kW/day.
1888: First wind turbine comes online. Requires nothing, generates 250 kW/day per turbine.
1900: First oil-fired steam power plant comes online. Requires oil/fuel oil and water, generates 1,500 kW/day.
1906: First coal-fired steam turbine comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 3,000 kW/day.
1925: Improved coal-fired steam turbines. Requires coal and water, generates 30,000 kW/day.
1935: Bonneville locks & hydroelectric dam. Requires nothing, must be built on a river with a slope, generates 500 kW/day per turbine.
1939: First gas turbine plant comes online. Requires natural gals, gasoline or chemicals, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1941: Improved wind turbines, requires nothing, generates 1250 kW/day per turbine.
1955: First combined cycle gas/coal turbine power plants. Requires gas/chemicals, coal and water, generates 40,000 kW/day.
1957: First nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 100,000 kW/day
1960: First full-scale geothermal plant comes online. Requires nothing, but cannot be placed in high lands, generates 1,000 kW/day.
1960: Improved hydroelectric river/canal plants. Requires nothing, must be built on river or canal, generates 1000 kW/day per turbine.
1966: First marine tidal power station comes online. Requires nothing, can only be built on sea, generates 1000 kW/day per turbine.
1968: First solar thermal farm comes online. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 2,000 kW/day.
1971: First Generation II nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 145,000 kW/day.
1972: First coal gassification plant comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 120,000 kW/day.
1981: First wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 2000 kW/day from each turbine.
1981: Improved solar thermal farms. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1982: First photovoltic solar energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1984: Itaipu hydroelectric gravity dam built. Requires nothing, must be built on slope with water, generates 39,000 kW/day.
1985: First Generation III nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 250,000 kW/day.
1990: Improved biomass power plants. Requires fiber crops, peat, waste from landfills/farms/lumber or sawmills, and water, generates 1000 kW/day.
1991: First offshore wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing and must be placed on water, generates 3,000 kW/day from each turbine.
2007: Itaipu Hydroelectric gravity dam expands capacity to 255,000 kW/day.
2011: Improved marine tidal power stations. Requires nothing, can only be built on sea, generates 1500 kW/day per turbine.
2013: World's largest biomass power plant constructed. Requires fiber crops, peat, waste from landfills/farms/lumber or sawmills, and water, generates 2,000 kW/day.
2014: World's largest solar thermal farm constructed. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 40,000 kW/day.
2015: World's largest photovoltic solar energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 50,000 kW/day.
2015: World's largest wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 5,000 kW/day from each turbine.
2030: First Generation IV nuclear power plants expected. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 400,000 kW/day.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 27 Oct 2019 21:23

kamnet wrote:[IDEA] Electrical power
The tram idea does sound good but running tram tracks and wires everywhere might be a bit strange.

Will it be possible to make the tracks invisible and just have the wires and make them look like power lines?

Power lines from a Power Station having several running parallel would look ok as we see that in real going to Sub-Station. Sub-Station could be like a junction (set of switches) and single Power Lines could go to the Industries if they not to far, maybe have Depots along the line in shape of a Transformer.

I not have much time to look in to it until possibly next week. When get chance will see if I can make a railway track type Power Lines.
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Re: [IDEA] Electrical power

Post by SimYouLater » 29 Oct 2019 02:58

kamnet wrote:
27 Oct 2019 12:43
So I've been mulling this over ever since SuperCheese released Wires several years ago. Go read that link to get a bare basic idea of where I'm going.
Supercheese wrote:
13 Nov 2012 09:19
As mentioned over yonder, making a grf that adds an electricity cargo, produced by power stations and delivered to other industries is entirely within the realm of possibility. Making a new "powerline" railtype with "vehicles" that run on it similar to the PIPE grf's representative "arrows" (or for powerlines, "sparks" feel more appropriate) is also entirely possible.
Building on that, now in 2019 we just got the ability to add many more inputs and outputs for industries, as well as more industries and more cargo slots, which makes adding electricity a no-brainer, and also making it a requirement for cities to grow just like water and food. My basic idea is to keep it simple. A power station accepts certain things to generate power, and all it generates is electricity (maybe district heat?) for direct delivery to industries and to power sub stations within a town zone to fulfill town growth. We can also borrow SuperCheese's idea of different types of "vehicles" representing different power levels.

Where I depart is that I am suggesting that it be a TramType instead of a RailType, for a few reasons. First it immediately offers bi-directional flow of vehicles within a single tile. Second, no dealing with signals, and you can cram as many vehicles as you need to and they'll just queue. Vehicles will flow so fast that it really won't matter. And with up to 64 RaodTypes/TramTypes available, I think visually it just works better.

Wanna make it more fun? Develop both an above-ground version with wires, and an underground version to bury them. And, heck, combine PIPES with it while you're at it, now we can pretend we have buried utilities. :) Heck, let's also upgrade our mail system with electronic messaging (which you can go all the way back to the telegraph!) to help move more mail.

Here's a handy timeline of power generation, with some ideas on generation. Yep, I know that my numbers aren't "realistic" but I think they work fine for gameplay. I also know this is a lot, but darn it I've spent the last 8 hours researching the entire history of electrical power production and it just needs mentioned! I probably need more information about gravity damn hydroelectric plants, maybe on oil-fired plants too. And probably most of this doesn't make sense for gameplay.

1881: First hydroelectric plant built on canals comes online. Requires nothing but must be built on river or canal, generates 100 kW/day per turbine.
1882: First coal-fired steam power plant comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 2,000 kW/day.
1888: First wind turbine comes online. Requires nothing, generates 250 kW/day per turbine.
1900: First oil-fired steam power plant comes online. Requires oil/fuel oil and water, generates 1,500 kW/day.
1906: First coal-fired steam turbine comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 3,000 kW/day.
1925: Improved coal-fired steam turbines. Requires coal and water, generates 30,000 kW/day.
1935: Bonneville locks & hydroelectric dam. Requires nothing, must be built on a river with a slope, generates 500 kW/day per turbine.
1939: First gas turbine plant comes online. Requires natural gals, gasoline or chemicals, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1941: Improved wind turbines, requires nothing, generates 1250 kW/day per turbine.
1955: First combined cycle gas/coal turbine power plants. Requires gas/chemicals, coal and water, generates 40,000 kW/day.
1957: First nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 100,000 kW/day
1960: First full-scale geothermal plant comes online. Requires nothing, but cannot be placed in high lands, generates 1,000 kW/day.
1960: Improved hydroelectric river/canal plants. Requires nothing, must be built on river or canal, generates 1000 kW/day per turbine.
1966: First marine tidal power station comes online. Requires nothing, can only be built on sea, generates 1000 kW/day per turbine.
1968: First solar thermal farm comes online. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 2,000 kW/day.
1971: First Generation II nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 145,000 kW/day.
1972: First coal gassification plant comes online. Requires coal and water, generates 120,000 kW/day.
1981: First wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 2000 kW/day from each turbine.
1981: Improved solar thermal farms. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1982: First photovoltic solar energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 20,000 kW/day.
1984: Itaipu hydroelectric gravity dam built. Requires nothing, must be built on slope with water, generates 39,000 kW/day.
1985: First Generation III nuclear power plant comes online. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 250,000 kW/day.
1990: Improved biomass power plants. Requires fiber crops, peat, waste from landfills/farms/lumber or sawmills, and water, generates 1000 kW/day.
1991: First offshore wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing and must be placed on water, generates 3,000 kW/day from each turbine.
2007: Itaipu Hydroelectric gravity dam expands capacity to 255,000 kW/day.
2011: Improved marine tidal power stations. Requires nothing, can only be built on sea, generates 1500 kW/day per turbine.
2013: World's largest biomass power plant constructed. Requires fiber crops, peat, waste from landfills/farms/lumber or sawmills, and water, generates 2,000 kW/day.
2014: World's largest solar thermal farm constructed. Requires water, must be built in desert, generates 40,000 kW/day.
2015: World's largest photovoltic solar energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 50,000 kW/day.
2015: World's largest wind energy farm constructed. Requires nothing, generates 5,000 kW/day from each turbine.
2030: First Generation IV nuclear power plants expected. Requires uranium, chemicals and water, generates 400,000 kW/day.
I'll try and work this into the upcoming Recycled Roads Set, since it looks like a NewGRF can't have both Railtypes and Roadtypes.
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 29 Oct 2019 03:50

This might interest you. I been playing around with the idea of a bridge just for Power Poles.

It still in test mode for now. I using McZapkie's WIRED set to test the idea with and had to change a little with it.

Hardest part bridges are coded in NFO and Wired is coded in NML.

The bridge needs to be of even length other whiles for odd length bridge end up with poles swinging in limbo as shown in this image.
Wired Bridge-1.png
Wired Bridge-1.png (80.89 KiB) Viewed 353 times
At pylons ok for wooden Power and Telephone Poles, but wonder if might look nicer if I change the pylons to a concrete look and maybe just a little wider?

The bridge is called Power Rail for now.
Here the 2 game files needed. The bridge set has all my bridges in it. The Wired has some things I been playing around with a year or so ago practicing with fences and maintenance tracks.
Attachments
Wired.grf
(83.93 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
australian_bridges.grf
(406.56 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Soot Happens
All my projects are GPLv2 License unless stated.
Auz Project Releases: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84725
AuzTrains: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74193
Auz Industry Sets: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74471
AuzObjects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75657
AuzBridges: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75248
AuzStations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390
AuzTracks: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=82691
AuzSubwayStations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=85335

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