FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

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CMircea
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by CMircea » 19 Feb 2018 13:12

andythenorth wrote:Let's invent some possible FIRS economies.
How about a classic economy, suitable for both temperate & arctic. I was thinking of it having:
  • Steel chain from Temperate Basic
  • Oil chain from Extreme (oil -> fuel; oil -> farm supplies)
  • Wood chain (no paper; wood -> timber -> goods)
  • Three farm types: arable (grain), dairy & piggery (milk, livestock), orchard & winery (fruit, alcohol)
  • Bauxite Mine -> Aluminium Plant -> Metal Workshop
  • Factory takes metal & timber, makes goods
  • Food processing plant takes grain, milk, livestock, fruit & makes food
  • Oh yeah, power plants! dump coal & fuel here :mrgreen:
  • No ports / bulk terminals; all finished products (goods/food) should go to towns
It needs some balancing (maybe split the food processing into two buildings?), but it can work. Think of it as an "easy" economy, it's easy to get started with the coal, but has quite a few manufacturing options.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Captain Rand » 19 Feb 2018 15:00

I like the Orchard and Winery idea. Interesting.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by kamnet » 19 Feb 2018 19:40

I've been thinking on this for a few weeks. I would like to see a dedicated agriculture economy, possibly American-styled.

Rural primary production:
Livestock farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Livestock an Wool.
Dairy farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Livestock and Milk.
Arable farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Grains and Fiber Crops.
Vegetable farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Grains and Vegetables.
Fruit farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Fruits and Fiber Crops.
Sugar Beets/Cane farms: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Sugar Beets/Cane and Waste.
Forrest: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Timber and Waste.
Spring Well: Accepts Nothing, produces Water.
Oil well: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Oil.

Secondary production, placed anywhere:
Farmers Co-Op: Accepts Grains, Fiber Crops, Chemicals, produces Farm Supplies.
Exchange/Trading Post/Port: Accepts Water, Food and Goods, produces Production Supplies and Chemicals.
Dairy: Accepts Water, Milk and Production Supplies, produces Food and Waste.
Slaughterhouse: Accepts Water, Livestock and Production Supplies, produces Food and Waste.
Bakery: Accepts Water, Grains and Production Supplies, produces Food and Waste.
Brewery: Accepts Water, Grains and Fruits, produces Food and Waste.
Distillery: Accepts Water, Sugar Beets/Cane and Vegetables, produces Food and Waste.
Food factory: Accepts Grains, Fruits and Vegetables, produces Food and Waste.
Sugar factory: Accepts Water and Sugar Beets/Cane, produces Food and Waste.
Textile factory: Accepts Fiber Crops, Wool and Chemicals, produces Goods and Textiles.
Resort Hotel: Accepts Passengers, Food and Water, produces Passengers and Waste.
Biorefinery: Accepts Waste and Fiber Crops, produces Chemicals and Farm Supplies.
Sawmill: Accepts Timber, Water and Production Supplies, produces Wood and Waste.
Furniture Factory: Accepts Wood, Textiles and Production Supplies, produces Goods.
Petroleum Refinery: Accepts Oil and Water, produces Chemicals.

Town-only production:
Grocery store: Accepts Food and Water, produces Waste.
Retail store: Accepts Goods, produces Waste.
Convenience Store: Accepts Food and Goods, produces Waste.
Waste collection: Accepts Nothing, produces Waste.
Water Tower: Accepts Nothing, produces Water.
Last edited by kamnet on 20 Feb 2018 00:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by acs121 » 19 Feb 2018 22:46

CMircea wrote:
andythenorth wrote:Let's invent some possible FIRS economies.
How about a classic economy, suitable for both temperate & arctic. I was thinking of it having:
  • Steel chain from Temperate Basic
  • Oil chain from Extreme (oil -> fuel; oil -> farm supplies)
  • Wood chain (no paper; wood -> timber -> goods)
  • Three farm types: arable (grain), dairy & piggery (milk, livestock), orchard & winery (fruit, alcohol)
  • Bauxite Mine -> Aluminium Plant -> Metal Workshop
  • Factory takes metal & timber, makes goods
  • Food processing plant takes grain, milk, livestock, fruit & makes food
  • Oh yeah, power plants! dump coal & fuel here :mrgreen:
  • No ports / bulk terminals; all finished products (goods/food) should go to towns
It needs some balancing (maybe split the food processing into two buildings?), but it can work. Think of it as an "easy" economy, it's easy to get started with the coal, but has quite a few manufacturing options.
I'm okay with everything except ports. It's much, much better to have ports where you give bulk, and in exchange get odd products like chemicals, etc...

However, power plants need oil, not fuel. Still, it's good to keep power plants, because it accepts cargoes with a quite high value.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by CMircea » 20 Feb 2018 06:54

kamnet wrote:I've been thinking on this for a few weeks. I would like to see a dedicated agriculture economy, possibly American-styled.
It's an interesting idea, but it would be quite a b**** to deliver farm supplies to everything. You won't have enough production. I suppose it's part of the challenge ;)

Besides being a bit boring hauling lettuce and potatoes everywhere, very little variety :lol:
kamnet wrote:Oil well: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Oil.
Why does the oil well need water? What does it do with farm supplies? :?

The rest look OK, but ideally the water would be reserved for towns and farms only, supplying it to manufacturing industries as well would mean you need a lot of springs / water towers.
acs121 wrote:I'm okay with everything except ports. It's much, much better to have ports where you give bulk, and in exchange get odd products like chemicals, etc...
That would make sense, but it should take a quite odd end-cargo, not something very common like food or goods. That is, trade a rather odd cargo for another. Otherwise you have to decide between hauling the cargo to towns or to ports to get that one cargo in low supply - it's not the point of this economy, the others already use this mechanic ;)
acs121 wrote:However, power plants need oil, not fuel. Still, it's good to keep power plants, because it accepts cargoes with a quite high value.
Or oil, yes. It just depends on whether you want to gather all oil to a refinery first, or have two alternatives from the start. I got the idea from PBI, which has "fuel oil".

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by piratescooby » 20 Feb 2018 09:33

A few ideas that I would like to have in an Industrial set :

Farming - Requires Farm Supplies - Fertilisers - Machinery - People
Crop Farm - Grains - Beets
Dairy - Livestock - Milk - Farm Waste
Sheep - Livestock - Wool - Farm Waste
Fish - Fish - Shellfish [ Inland farm on Lochs and Deep sea ]
Plantation - Fruit - Jute - Veg
Forrest - Wood

Food Producers - Abattoir - Creamery - Cannery - Flour Mill
[ Abattoir produces food/wool/hides Requires Engineering Supplies ]
[ Creamery produces food Requires Milk/Glass/Plastic ]
[ Cannery produces food/Food waste Requires fish/fruit/veg/cans ]
[ Floor Mill Produces Food Requires Grains/Paper Products ]

Mining - Requires Engineering Supplies - Machinery - People
Coal / Iron Ore / Bauxite / Uranium and Plutonium / Gold and Silver / Quarry

Power Plants - Coal/Gas - Oil - Nuclear - Green Requires Oil/Gas/Coal/Uranium/Farm Waste/Wind/Water/Sun/Beets
Green Power Plants - Hydro - Wind Turbine Farm - Biomass - Solar

Ports/Harbours/Yards
Port Requires Leather Goods/Food/Vehicles Produces Gold/Silver
Oil/Gas Terminal Requires Oil/Gas Produces Fuel - Chemicals
Ferry Terminal Requires People/Mail/Goods Produces People/Mail/Goods
Fishing Requires Fish/People/Marine Supplies Produces Fish
Shipyard Requires Steel/Engineer Supplies/Sails Produces Marine Supplies [Ships/Canal Boats/Trawlers/Barges ]

Industry
Tannery Requires Hides/Chemicals Produces Leather Goods
Recycle Center Requires Household Waste Produces Recyclables
Recycle Plant Requires Recyclables/Food waste/Farm Waste Produces Plastic/Fertilisers
Saw Mill Requires Wood/Machinery Produces Wood Products
Paper Mill Requires Chemicals/Wood Produces Paper Products
Steel Plant Requires Coal/Iron ore Produces Steel
Aluminium Plant Requires Coal/Bauxite Produces cans
Textile/Jute Mill Requires Dyes/Wool/Jute Produces Cloth/Rope
Sailmaker Requires Cloth/Rope/Dyes Produces Sails
Construction Requires Sand/Stone/Paint Produces Building Materials
Chemical Plant Requires Chemicals Produces Dyes/Paint
Vehicle Plant Requires Steel/Paint/Cloth/Leather Goods Produces Machinery/Vehicles
Machine Plant Requires Steel/Wood Produces Engineering Supplies/Pipes
Ammonia Plant Requires Chemicals Produces Farm Supplies
Brewery / Distillery / Winery Require Grains/Fruit/Glass Produces Alcohol/Fruit Juice
Oil/Gas Platform Requires Engineering Supplies/People/Food Produces Oil/Gas
Oil Refinery Requires Pipes/Oil/Engineering Supplies Produces Oil/Chemicals
Oil Well Requires Pipes/Engineering Supplies/Machinery Produces Oil

Non Producer Industry

Hotel requires People/Food/Alcohol/Fruit Juice
Builders Yard Requires Building Material
Tourist/Leisure Requires Marine supplies/food/People
Car Dealer Requires Vehicles
Shops Requires Food/Alcohol/Fruit Juice/People/Leather Goods
Bank Requires Gold/Silver

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by kamnet » 20 Feb 2018 10:00

CMircea wrote:
kamnet wrote:I've been thinking on this for a few weeks. I would like to see a dedicated agriculture economy, possibly American-styled.
It's an interesting idea, but it would be quite a b**** to deliver farm supplies to everything. You won't have enough production. I suppose it's part of the challenge ;) Besides being a bit boring hauling lettuce and potatoes everywhere, very little variety :lol:
The idea is that it's going to keep you busy and you're really going to be pushing the production chain.
CMircea wrote:
kamnet wrote:Oil well: Accepts Farm Supplies and Water, produces Oil.
Why does the oil well need water? What does it do with farm supplies? :?
Water, mixed with chemicals, is used to create steam, which is pumped into oil wells in order to heat and extract crude oil. I included Farm Supplies since Chemicals go into the Farm Supplies chain, but I suppose it makes just as much sense to just make it Chemicals.
CMircea wrote:The rest look OK, but ideally the water would be reserved for towns and farms only, supplying it to manufacturing industries as well would mean you need a lot of springs / water towers.
Most industries require a good, clean water supply. If Andy believed in the idea of electricity as a cargo and abusing RailTypes to deliver it, then I'd probably switch out for electricity in most of these. :) But, yes, in the real world you do need a lot of water. Farms, industry and cities typically utilize a unimaginable amount of water every day. It's also why I have the Biorefinery recovering Water from Waste.
CMircea wrote:
acs121 wrote:I'm okay with everything except ports. It's much, much better to have ports where you give bulk, and in exchange get odd products like chemicals, etc...
That would make sense, but it should take a quite odd end-cargo, not something very common like food or goods. That is, trade a rather odd cargo for another. Otherwise you have to decide between hauling the cargo to towns or to ports to get that one cargo in low supply - it's not the point of this economy, the others already use this mechanic ;)
Food and Goods are usually things that, once you get production chains going, are produced easily in abundance, so it makes sense to dump them off at a port (it's why I picked them for processing myself). But if there's a product you really need, sometimes you do have to make a hard choice on what is most important.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by agentw4b » 02 Mar 2018 10:06

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Alberth » 02 Mar 2018 11:24

Clearly, 3.0.2 is the final version! :mrgreen:
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Who produced materials for increase production of port

Post by demwf » 16 Mar 2018 06:05

You can help me with increase production of port? In description says that need 128 box materials per 3 month. I reviewed all chains productions but unfortunately this kind of type materials never produced. What wrong?
FIRS Industry Replacement Set 3.0.5 from Banana
Arctic Strategy, but i tries all economy.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by mak » 16 Mar 2018 08:13

It is quite possible to deliver 128 and even 640 units of cargo to a PORT, just supply the three required elements (goods, fruit, packaging).

Of course the supply industries (goods, fruit, packaging) will need their own supplies to increase production.

A little hint to get you started :wink: supply fruit to the PORT, refit train to take FARM SUPPLIES to the FRUIT PLANTATION, refit train to take fruit to the PORT.
Select a carriage that can be refitted at the station and put it in the train orders.

Edit: just notice you mention Arctic, never played that so it may not be possible unless the required industries are available.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by demwf » 16 Mar 2018 09:35

mak wrote:It is quite possible to deliver 128 and even 640 units of cargo to a PORT, just supply the three required elements (goods, fruit, packaging).

Of course the supply industries (goods, fruit, packaging) will need their own supplies to increase production.

A little hint to get you started :wink: supply fruit to the PORT, refit train to take FARM SUPPLIES to the FRUIT PLANTATION, refit train to take fruit to the PORT.
Select a carriage that can be refitted at the station and put it in the train orders.

Edit: just notice you mention Arctic, never played that so it may not be possible unless the required industries are available.
Thanks. Later i understand that information is only tips and necessary delivered kind of products this chains industry. But exclude supplay enginires. They not specifified witch as neccessary.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by mak » 16 Mar 2018 12:49

If I understand your post

Left click on the industry PORT a box will appear stating what is required. This applies to alll industries etc.

At bottom of box, left click DISPLAY CHAIN that gives a graphic showing all supply industries and where (FARM SUPPLIES, ENGINEERING SUPPLIES) can go.

EDIT: just a thought a UNIT will vary by any supplying industry etc. for instance one unit in fruit is one tonne,

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Hafting » 18 Mar 2018 22:44

andythenorth wrote:Let's invent some possible FIRS economies.
Well, here is one: Complex arctic.
I like playing arctic, where the cities needs food to grow. The basic arctic gets too simple. Extreme is perhaps a bit too much, and playing extreme in the arctic have misfitting indistries like sugar.

So I coded up such an economy this evening. The firs 3.0.5 sources are nice and modular - it is easy to create a new economy by picking and choosing industries and cargoes.My arctic economy has all the building materials (I happen to like those) as wekk as food, oil, paper, aluminium and pyrite.

I omitted iron & coal. Aluminium & pyrite provides enough metal. Industries needing coal has been switched to petrol instead. Calling it 'fuel' would probably be better for realism, but I did this quickly and haven't renamed anything. So the cement factory uses stone and clay - and petrol.

Food is simpler than in 'extreme'. Some farms produce food directly, but there are also fruit & grain that can be processed for more food or alcohol.

I haven't had time to test it yet, other than starting a game and seeing that it creates a landscape with the selected industries. And they seem to require cargoes as intended,

As for licencing, my work do of course come with the same GPL as the firs source it is based upon.
Attachments
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My firs.grf, based on firs 3.0.5 with an extra arctic economy
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arctic305.patch
Patch against firs 3.0.5, in case there is interest.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by brutesquad01 » 20 Mar 2018 01:53

I was messing with parameters in FIRS 3, trying to make a (possibly ridiculous) scenario. I wanted to adjust production bonuses from supplies to be very high, but I can only set the bonus to 10x at most. Would it be possible to set this higher? I wanted to set Enhanced production to 20x and Gung-ho to 50 or 100x. Yes, I know these numbers are pretty silly for a normal game, but I'm planning to have daylength factor of 30 or 60.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Alberth » 21 Mar 2018 07:51

brutesquad01 wrote:I was messing with parameters in FIRS 3, trying to make a (possibly ridiculous) scenario. I wanted to adjust production bonuses from supplies to be very high, but I can only set the bonus to 10x at most. Would it be possible to set this higher? I wanted to set Enhanced production to 20x and Gung-ho to 50 or 100x. Yes, I know these numbers are pretty silly for a normal game, but I'm planning to have daylength factor of 30 or 60.
Given the upper limit of production at 255, a multiplication factor of 100 implies your normal production can be at most 2.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by brutesquad01 » 22 Mar 2018 05:06

Alberth wrote:Given the upper limit of production at 255, a multiplication factor of 100 implies your normal production can be at most 2.
Right, I forgot about how industry production works. I imagine changing this would require a patch, yes? Is it instead possible to change the number of times industries produce every month? Either way, this probably goes beyond FIRS development.

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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Alberth » 22 Mar 2018 11:44

brutesquad01 wrote:Right, I forgot about how industry production works. I imagine changing this would require a patch, yes? Is it instead possible to change the number of times industries produce every month?
If you can change it, it definitely needs a patch. However, I think you'll be stopped way before reaching that point by the NewGRF spec, which defines the upper limit and the number of production cycles in a month.
Changing the spec breaks all NewGRFs that exist. If you extend the spec with a new production mechanism, and implement it in OpenTTD, all current NewGRFs won't work with it for the simple reason that they don't use the new extension.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development & Translations

Post by Pyoro » 22 Mar 2018 12:09

You could perhaps make 1-tile industries (or at least small ones. OR just build very large disjointed stations or increase their pick-up area with a patch (that's actually pretty straight-forward, even I managed that ^^)) and then bunch them together for gameplay-effect with lots of cargo (at least primary industries). Also station rating at 100%.

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