French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Translations needed!

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

Moderator: Graphics Moderators

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Snail » 08 Feb 2017 22:51

Nyrill wrote:Where can i download this set?
You can't yet, but if you'd like to try it out, you can PM me and I'll send you a copy of the playtesting version.
Just, if you want to go this way, keep in mind it's still unfinished.

BTW I've got nothing more than 2 more vehicles to code now... Then I'll have to iron out the last bugs and maybe add some extra features... :!:
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

N8king
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 27
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 14:49
Location: Graz/Austria

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by N8king » 11 Feb 2017 13:14

[quote="Snail"][quote="N8king"]Hello Snail,

Crashreport.[/quote]

Strange. It has never occurred to me.
What were you doing just before the crash? And what other GRFs have you got installed?

It looks like you've got other NG trains there. Just as a reminder, this set doesn't guarantee compatibility with other sets...[/quote]

Hello Snail,

I build a short 3rd Rail track and a Depot. Then I selectet a Vehicle and a Waggon witch can load fuel.
After setting the orders, I startet the Train. Suddenly the game crashed.
Its right, I am using various NG trainsets. Also I am playing with JGR Patchset and Neighborors are important script.
There are two AIs includet.

Two more files:

N8king


Edit: I think the Error is the "refit after buy" feature from the JGR Patchpack.
When this feature is activatet, the game crashed.

N8king
Attachments
crash.png
(229.09 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
JGR
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2003
Joined: 08 Aug 2005 13:46
Location: Ipswich

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by JGR » 14 Feb 2017 09:12

N8king wrote:Hello Snail,

I build a short 3rd Rail track and a Depot. Then I selectet a Vehicle and a Waggon witch can load fuel.
After setting the orders, I startet the Train. Suddenly the game crashed.
Its right, I am using various NG trainsets. Also I am playing with JGR Patchset and Neighborors are important script.
There are two AIs includet.

Two more files:

N8king


Edit: I think the Error is the "refit after buy" feature from the JGR Patchpack.
When this feature is activatet, the game crashed.

N8king
This issue should be fixed in version 0.17.1, it was due to the dynamic calculation of the refit cost.
Ex TTDPatch Coder, Grumpy Greymuzzle
Avatar by MoonsongWolf.
Patch Pack, Github
Dad-Coder since April 2018

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 01 Jun 2017 19:33

So, I have been testing this set for some hours of gameplay.

I haven't been far in yet (started a game in 1880, reached 1912) but I already noticed that there have been a lot of work going in this set.
Several features are impressive and practical, but some things are lacking. Or might deserve more work.

So let's go on the negative parts and/or "bugs" I found, first :

*
Snail wrote:Yep, both things have already been mentioned. I'm still thinking whether it's better to specify the power and adhesion type by adding text or by putting a symbol close to the engine pic in the purchasing menu (a bolt for electric, colored smoke for steam and diesel, a gear for rack).
Old post, from 2012, but it still stand true.

Being that rack-and-pinion is mostly for eyecandy purposes, it's not the biggest issue, but telling that a vehicle is electric is more important. You can tell a catenary vehicle from the pantograph, sure, but the 3rd rail type? Unless you're knowledgeable enough about French trains, it's hard to see that the Z200 and Z100 are electric.

And sometime, due to the size of the sprites, it's not easy to tell. I got the "Automotrice type tramway à essieux" and the sprite doesn't have a very visible pantograph, so I first assumed it was a steamer/diesel engine.

So yeah, I strongly recommand to either put the type as a sprite, or as text.

* When I read the infos for the 021T (first rack-and-pinion loco we get) the top speed is indicated as being 15kph. Which is correct... on rack tracks. On standard tracks, it's 25kph. I guess I can see how it make sense, but since rack rails are mostly (as pointed in this thread already) eyecandy stuff, maybe putting the speed of the loco on regular rails would make more sense? I dunno. I guess I just had to point that out. Adding it in the loco description would do the trick I guess, but it would make it a mess to read.

* Still about rack and pinions, I used the 021T first, because heh, gotta try it. Then I replaced it by a 031T. (because it was losing money :p ) I noticed that while on standard rails (climbing on a continuous slope, not on flat land) the 031T with empty wagons was easily keeping the max speed. But on the part with the rack rails, the speed didn't drop at 30 kph, but 10. And I get the same with a 020 020T, speed drops to 10kph on rack rails. From what I get, this shoudln't happen?

* For the "Automotrice type tramway à essieux", the à is glitched on my screen :
OpenTTD bug Autorail.jpg
(312.03 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Just a detail, really :))

* In the parameters of French Train Set GRF, there is an option "Without FSRails". I tried it, assuming it would disable the rails.
I don't know if it's the expected behavior, but it disable the rails, and all of the French Set machines. I mean, of course, without the proper rails, I expected to not see electric engines, but none of the steamers or diesel engines showed up.
But, on the other hand, the graphics of the narrow gauge line remained, as well as both the low and Hi speed ones rails (as opposed to the single Narrow Gauge track from Iron Horse/Termite).
IMO, if the options is meant to shut down the French Set trains, it should say "Disable FSTrains" not FSRails". Else, it it's meant to disable everything, this option doesn't make any sense : you might as well just disable both sets from the list!

* Still about parameters, I understand that you want this set to be in temperate climate only but maybe putting a warning message might help? (yes, I played for 10 years in Artic Climate before realising that I didn't got any of the locos from the set!!!) Or maybe, adding an option in the parameters to allow the set in Arctic and Tropical climates?
I understand that you want realism; but you won't stop people from doing what they want in their games anyway :tongue:

* And about realism, how about allowing the Turgan-Foy tramway to have at least one of it's sibling attached? I made a line with it, but it looks so ridiculous :D I mean, I'd rather make it into a "road tramway" than a narrow gauge engine at this point. (heh, that could be a thing, to expand some of your machines into a tramway set...)

Now, I think I can go on the good parts of this set. Always be positive! And I am.

* First, whoah, there is A LOT OF STUFF :bow:
I mean, between 1881 and 1910, I got 14 engines? Every type of cargo from FIRS is covered right on. Excellent!

* As the set deal with realism, we have braking power taking into account. And I really appreciate that while you assemble your trains in depots, there is a "blinking angry sprite" that appears on the locomotive to warn you that there isn't enough braking power. It's really an amazing feature. Of course the only other train set I know that use that is the UKRS one, and it's really just "add a braking van and you're all set". I know there are some wagons with braking power, but really the braking vans are less of a PITA to use than the wagons. But this set doesn't have one so you have to deal with it, and that warning is really a precious tool.
OpenTTD angry loco.jpg
OpenTTD angry loco.jpg (110.81 KiB) Viewed 2662 times
* As far as balancing goes, it's doing great. Cheaper than most sets (well it's not like there are so many sets in narrow gauge) but it's slower and less powerful so it make sense. It's not cheating level of cheap either.

And If I can make a suggestion, as Snail seems to like odd things like me, why not including the Rhune train in the set?
Image
I mean, it looks damn awesome, and it's one of the 4 last trains in the world to still use 3 phase current. :idea:
Of course, what might bother you is that it's a double catenary system, not a single one, but having it requiring to have rack and catenary to be used would make this type of rail useful. Well, more useful.
I don't fancy having "single use" rail types cluttering the menu. :mrgreen:


Anyway, I'm waiting to see more of that, as I play more of it, but it's quite awesome already. I know it's not as complete as you would like to be, but between the rail type and the large amount of machines, it should be on Bananas already?
Well, at least the rails types. Apparently you last changed it it 2012, so if it was standardized, maybe more NewGRF would use it (so I could have the electric locos from the Japan set on it :mrgreen: (but I guess someone should contact them for that... They even have their own electric SG line despite OpenTTD having one standardized catenary SG rail type).

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5275
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by michael blunck » 01 Jun 2017 20:07

Lesarthois wrote: [...] why not including the Rhune train in the set?
Yeah, why not?

regards
Michael
Image

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Snail » 03 Jun 2017 03:05

Wow! Thanks for this great feedback!
Lesarthois wrote:
Snail wrote:Yep, both things have already been mentioned. I'm still thinking whether it's better to specify the power and adhesion type by adding text or by putting a symbol close to the engine pic in the purchasing menu (a bolt for electric, colored smoke for steam and diesel, a gear for rack).
Old post, from 2012, but it still stand true.
Ok, I got it. I was already thinking about adding this info, but I've always been too lazy to do that :p Info about train type (power type, rackrail or not) will be there in the final version.
Lesarthois wrote: * When I read the infos for the 021T (first rack-and-pinion loco we get) the top speed is indicated as being 15kph. Which is correct... on rack tracks. On standard tracks, it's 25kph. I guess I can see how it make sense, but since rack rails are mostly (as pointed in this thread already) eyecandy stuff, maybe putting the speed of the loco on regular rails would make more sense? I dunno. I guess I just had to point that out. Adding it in the loco description would do the trick I guess, but it would make it a mess to read.
Or maybe just let it do 15km/h on any rail type? But that would make it even less attractive in-game.
This is a bit trickier, since the rackrail steamer moved using its pinion on the rack-equipped track, and normal adhesion on standard track. This is why it's quicker on the latter track type.
I'll see if I can change the max speed in the purchase menu, adding some text about max speed on rackrail track.
Lesarthois wrote: * Still about rack and pinions, I used the 021T first, because heh, gotta try it. Then I replaced it by a 031T. (because it was losing money :p ) I noticed that while on standard rails (climbing on a continuous slope, not on flat land) the 031T with empty wagons was easily keeping the max speed. But on the part with the rack rails, the speed didn't drop at 30 kph, but 10. And I get the same with a 020 020T, speed drops to 10kph on rack rails. From what I get, this shoudln't happen?
All non-rackrail-equipped locomotives have to slow down on rackrail tracks.
Why? Well, for one, the presence of the large rack in the middle might damage the undercarriage of normal locos, if moving too quickly. Also, the idea is that sloped rackrail tracks are probably "steeper" than non-rackrail (although all steeps are obviously the same in-game). I did this so that players would only use rackrail tracks with the proper locomotives; in your case, if you decided to get rid of the poor 021T, you should have removed the rack from the rails as well.

I do agree, though, that it might appear confusing. Not sure how to properly document this in-game though, other than putting it in the "readme" file.
Lesarthois wrote: * For the "Automotrice type tramway à essieux", the à is glitched on my screen :
OpenTTD bug Autorail.jpg
Just a detail, really :))
Whoops! Fixed.
Lesarthois wrote: * In the parameters of French Train Set GRF, there is an option "Without FSRails". I tried it, assuming it would disable the rails.
I don't know if it's the expected behavior, but it disable the rails, and all of the French Set machines. I mean, of course, without the proper rails, I expected to not see electric engines, but none of the steamers or diesel engines showed up.
But, on the other hand, the graphics of the narrow gauge line remained, as well as both the low and Hi speed ones rails (as opposed to the single Narrow Gauge track from Iron Horse/Termite).
That parameter should do two things: (1) disable the French Rails Set, if loaded, and (2) turn all the set's vehicle to standard gauge, i.e. usable on the default ("RAIL") OTTD track.
Did you look inside of a standard gauge depot? That's where the trains should show up.

Not sure how it works with Termite. So far, the train set is compatible with the French Rails as well as NuTracks.
Lesarthois wrote: * Still about parameters, I understand that you want this set to be in temperate climate only but maybe putting a warning message might help? (yes, I played for 10 years in Artic Climate before realising that I didn't got any of the locos from the set!!!) Or maybe, adding an option in the parameters to allow the set in Arctic and Tropical climates?
I understand that you want realism; but you won't stop people from doing what they want in their games anyway :tongue:
I have plans to make it available on Arctic, with only a subset of trains (basically, all those used on the Alps and the Pyrenees). Just wait a bit more ;)
As for Tropic, the idea was to make a variant with Algerian trains, but due to the limited time I have, I doubt it will ever happen...
Lesarthois wrote: * And about realism, how about allowing the Turgan-Foy tramway to have at least one of it's sibling attached? I made a line with it, but it looks so ridiculous :D

Hehe, I see. An entire new line for that tiny thing might seem an overkill. You should limit the Turgan-Foy to very, very short stretches of tracks connecting two villages (or maybe different boroughs of the same town).
If you think about the De Dion "JM" (effetively the TF's replacement), not even that one will be couplable. However, you'll be able to attach a trailer to that. Perhaps this is the solution? Allow the Turgan-Foy to pull a trailer?
Lesarthois wrote:I mean, I'd rather make it into a "road tramway" than a narrow gauge engine at this point. (heh, that could be a thing, to expand some of your machines into a tramway set...)
You have a very good point, since many of the earlier railcars were very similar to tramways (same goes, for example, for the early 2-axle electric tramway-style railcar). However, trams in OTTD are coded very differently from trains, and I'm not planning to do a tramway set.
Lesarthois wrote: Now, I think I can go on the good parts of this set. Always be positive! And I am.
[...]
Thanks for your kind words! ;) I'm happy you appreciate the set.
Lesarthois wrote: And If I can make a suggestion, as Snail seems to like odd things like me, why not including the Rhune train in the set?
Image
I mean, it looks damn awesome, and it's one of the 4 last trains in the world to still use 3 phase current. :idea:
Of course, what might bother you is that it's a double catenary system, not a single one, but having it requiring to have rack and catenary to be used would make this type of rail useful. Well, more useful.
I don't fancy having "single use" rail types cluttering the menu. :mrgreen:
Heh! I know that train. I deliberately decided to leave it out, because of the following:
* As you stated, it's powered by a threephase catenary, which is a rivet counter's dream; however, I wouldn't be including this particular type of catenary for just one train (I'm only planning to do threephase for the Italian set I have in mind, because of the large number of threephase pre-war electrics in that country). So, in the French NG set, it would run under normal DC catenary, and that would be odd...
* That train's max speed was a whopping 10km/h ... in 1924 (i.e. at a time when you get decent steamers and railcars capable of ~40 km/h on slopes). Ok, I could raise it in-game to 15km/h, maybe even 20km/h. But still, it'd be very slow.
* Also, I seem unable to find any drawings, or at least info about length of engine and coaches. Having that would make the drawing process much quicker.

Let's say I might draw it in a rainy day, if I'm too bored to do anything else :p
Lesarthois wrote: Anyway, I'm waiting to see more of that, as I play more of it, but it's quite awesome already. I know it's not as complete as you would like to be, but between the rail type and the large amount of machines, it should be on Bananas already?
Not sure if I'll ever place it on Bananas, because of its licensing system (GPL doesn't fully convince me). But when it's done, it's going to be easily downloadable.
Lesarthois wrote: Well, at least the rails types. Apparently you last changed it it 2012, so if it was standardized, maybe more NewGRF would use it (so I could have the electric locos from the Japan set on it :mrgreen: (but I guess someone should contact them for that... They even have their own electric SG line despite OpenTTD having one standardized catenary SG rail type).
My rail types follow a standard scheme shared by many other sets (explained in the "donotreadme" in the first page of this thread), so I'm pretty sure other trains can already run there. However, I'm also planning to refine the track graphics a bit (right now they're very similar to the original TTD tracks).
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 03 Jun 2017 15:40

Snail wrote:Ok, I got it. I was already thinking about adding this info, but I've always been too lazy to do that :p Info about train type (power type, rackrail or not) will be there in the final version.
That would be great. Now that I have read about the rack and pinion part, I think pointing out the pinion locos would be important too.
I'm now in 1945, and, if I read in the loco description, I still only have the 021T for rack operation. That make it a quite lonely loco, and (because how OpenTTD handle slopes) a pretty useless track type so far but I like the idea of rack and pinion lines!
Snail wrote:Or maybe just let it do 15km/h on any rail type? But that would make it even less attractive in-game.
This is a bit trickier, since the rackrail steamer moved using its pinion on the rack-equipped track, and normal adhesion on standard track. This is why it's quicker on the latter track type.
I'll see if I can change the max speed in the purchase menu, adding some text about max speed on rackrail track.
I was just suggesting something. I see how it make sense to indicate the max speed of the loco on it's main track type.

Snail wrote:All non-rackrail-equipped locomotives have to slow down on rackrail tracks.
Why? Well, for one, the presence of the large rack in the middle might damage the undercarriage of normal locos, if moving too quickly. Also, the idea is that sloped rackrail tracks are probably "steeper" than non-rackrail (although all steeps are obviously the same in-game). I did this so that players would only use rackrail tracks with the proper locomotives; in your case, if you decided to get rid of the poor 021T, you should have removed the rack from the rails as well.
I do agree, though, that it might appear confusing. Not sure how to properly document this in-game though, other than putting it in the "readme" file.
Welll I kept the rail in the hope to get a replacement for a rack and pinion locomotive a bit later. But as the standard locos still make a profit on this line even with the rack line :D
I tend to be a bit on the lazy side. Plus, as it's a new set, I lay out lines everywhere to test them into different situations. Now I'm aware that train slow down on rack and pinion lines, and that it's an expected behaviour.

Snail wrote:That parameter should do two things: (1) disable the French Rails Set, if loaded, and (2) turn all the set's vehicle to standard gauge, i.e. usable on the default ("RAIL") OTTD track.
Did you look inside of a standard gauge depot? That's where the trains should show up.
Not sure how it works with Termite. So far, the train set is compatible with the French Rails as well as NuTracks.
Well, I just et a gew game and indeed, it works as you said. It's a bit odd to me, as your French set now and high speed tracks still appears in the game. I guess it's because the rail set is the last to load, and detect that there are narrow gauge trains (from Termite and the Japan Set) so it put both types of rails available instead of the usual Narrow gauge line.
I dunno what's best, to allow only your non electic sets on narrow gauges lines or all of them on Standard Gauge lines.
I guess that choice is yours ;)
Snail wrote:I have plans to make it available on Arctic, with only a subset of trains (basically, all those used on the Alps and the Pyrenees). Just wait a bit more ;)
As for Tropic, the idea was to make a variant with Algerian trains, but due to the limited time I have, I doubt it will ever happen...
Alright ^^ again, that choice belong to you only.

Snail wrote:Hehe, I see. An entire new line for that tiny thing might seem an overkill. You should limit the Turgan-Foy to very, very short stretches of tracks connecting two villages (or maybe different boroughs of the same town).
If you think about the De Dion "JM" (effetively the TF's replacement), not even that one will be couplable. However, you'll be able to attach a trailer to that. Perhaps this is the solution? Allow the Turgan-Foy to pull a trailer?

You have a very good point, since many of the earlier railcars were very similar to tramways (same goes, for example, for the early 2-axle electric tramway-style railcar). However, trams in OTTD are coded very differently from trains, and I'm not planning to do a tramway set.
It was merely a comment on the fact that such tiny things are looking odd on rail lines, and unlike tramways of the time, they can't go over roads like the old tramways did.
Making them road tramways would make more sense.
Again, that was just more of a comment on the fact that it feels oddly frustating not to attach anything on them and just have tiny slabs of trains running. But heh, just my two cents, it's your set. I guess if they bother me too much I'll just remove them!
Snail wrote:Heh! I know that train. I deliberately decided to leave it out, because of the following

Let's say I might draw it in a rainy day, if I'm too bored to do anything else :p
I guessed you wouldn't like to put it under a standard catenary line. But heh, if you wanted to be even more rivent counting, you could even recreate the different power used on overhead lines.... Well I know the xUSSR set does that for example, and even have low and hi spedd laien with different voltages XD
Snail wrote:My rail types follow a standard scheme shared by many other sets (explained in the "donotreadme" in the first page of this thread), so I'm pretty sure other trains can already run there. However, I'm also planning to refine the track graphics a bit (right now they're very similar to the original TTD tracks).
No problems. I guess it's the Japan set itself that doesn't follow a standard scheme, because the Shinkansen from this set doesn't appears on SG catenary lines. I will write to them to ask if they can make it compatible with OpenTTD more recent standardized sets...

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 04 Jun 2017 15:44

Further testing :
Many autorails machines won't renew (I play with "vehicles never expire").
Either when I want to replace them with newer machines, or just leave them to be renewed by the same type.
Note that in many case I don't refit them, but refitting doesn't seems to affect it.
I think I read that the issue was ponted out before, and it has to do with liveries?

And yes, I tried to remove all wagons and cars from them before renewing, and that doesn't change anything.


Also, today I tried the Japanese track set, and I got an error saying "Tentative d'utilisation d'un identifiant invalide" (sprite 648)".
If I look in the console, there is a prevous one with sprite 17962.

Note that it happen with the Japanese track set put in last in loading order, and your train set works.
The Japan rail set (set to "International" and "Minimal tracks" only load some tracks.
If you change options, the sprite error change (sprite 635)

If I have to assume anything, I guess that the issue is with catenary sprites, as the Japan set will load steam and diesel narrow gauge machines, but the SG Shinkansen trains and the narrow gauges electric trains won't load.
Also, the International setting allow for SG catenary, 3rd rail and both types, and those won't load either.


But if I put your track set to load last, I get the same error, but this time with Sprite 958 as the guilty one.

And this time, the French set get desactivated (the trains set, not the rail set) but oddly, that simply mean that your set behave like it is set to "desactivate FSRails" option, your trains are loaded, but as standard gauge trains.

I know you said that compatibility with other sets wasn't insured, but I think that the Japan set is appealing for people that want to see more narrow gauge use so that might be a good idea to look into it, if it's "just" a sprite conflict.


Edit : I'm getting an headache :D
Depending on what NewGRF I keep or remove, I get different results. Apparently, narrow gauge rail types aren't as finely standardized than SG.
I removed termite and the Serbian Narrow gauge set, and the French rail Set...
And the japanese narrow gauge seek refuge in the 600mm Narrow gauge set!

If I disable the French Rail set in the parameters, the narrow gauge low and hi speed remains (I get a sprite error too) but the Serbian set create it's own narrow gauge track (that is not compatible with the other, which annows me heavily.)

I guess that the serbian Set recognize the Termite tracks, but that since Termite seems to disable it's own tracks to use yours (the Termite locos are found in your depots, as well as the Japanese thermic ones) then it recreate it's own.

My suggestion would be than since you move your traisn to standard gauge when the FRS set is disabled, would be to check why the low speed and hi speed narrow gauges tracks remains used by the game if another narrow gauge set is there?
OpenTTD mess.jpg
(1.22 MiB) Not downloaded yet
There you can see what I get. Oddly I see that this time, Termite went off. So it make sense that the Serbian Set make it's own track. (without the Japan Track Set, the Serbian set appears into the French Set depots).
So the guilty one there might be Termite, not the Japan set. I have to test more. :evil:
Last edit : okay, if I remove the French rail set... The Serbian set keep making it's own track.. termite works... But I can find the Serbian locos in the Japanese electric narrow gauge depots when they appears? WTF? XD

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5275
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by michael blunck » 04 Jun 2017 17:44

Would be interesting to find out which of these other track sets are using the standardized railtype scheme. Probably none of them(?).

regards
Michael
Image

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Snail » 04 Jun 2017 18:50

Wow! Thanks for your thorough testing!
So let's see...
Lesarthois wrote:Further testing :
Many autorails machines won't renew (I play with "vehicles never expire").
Either when I want to replace them with newer machines, or just leave them to be renewed by the same type.
Note that in many case I don't refit them, but refitting doesn't seems to affect it.
I think I read that the issue was ponted out before, and it has to do with liveries?
Not sure about that. Are you using the "autoreplace" and "autorenew" features? What do you mean by "won't renew"... The game won't automatically replace old vehicles with new ones?
I don't use these game features myself in my games, so I didn't test it myself. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll definitely do some more tests on my side.
And yes, "autoreplace" wouldn't work if you play with liveries a lot (i.e. if you like to refit to a specific livery that's not the standard one).
Lesarthois wrote: Also, today I tried the Japanese track set
[...]
I know you said that compatibility with other sets wasn't insured, but I think that the Japan set is appealing for people that want to see more narrow gauge use so that might be a good idea to look into it, if it's "just" a sprite conflict.
Unfortunately, according to https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels, the Japanese train set uses nonstandard railtype labels ("NGRL", "ELNG", and a few others). As such, you won't be able to mix French and Japanese trains on the same tracks. This is probably why you're experiencing so many issues when you try to mix the two sets.
There's very little I can do about it, apart from adding a parameter to specifically support the Japanese tracks, which I won't do (if I went down this route, I'd have to do it for every nonstandard trackset). :p
Lesarthois wrote: Edit : I'm getting an headache :D
Depending on what NewGRF I keep or remove, I get different results. Apparently, narrow gauge rail types aren't as finely standardized than SG.
Hehe. Yes. Time ago, I was one of those who proposed a standardized railtype scheme, but not every set has decided to follow it.
Lesarthois wrote: My suggestion would be than since you move your traisn to standard gauge when the FRS set is disabled, would be to check why the low speed and hi speed narrow gauges tracks remains used by the game if another narrow gauge set is there?
The problem is, that are many different labels used for essentially the same narrow gauge tracks, some of which are even undocumented. As I wrote above, my set can't possibly keep track of them all, nor can it disable other track types (low speed, high speed...) belonging to other sets.

NuTracks is another set that follows the standard, so my set is compatible with it (except, if I remember correctly, for 3rd rail NG, which is not supported by NuTracks).
The parameter in my set, that moves all my trains to SG, is there exactly to fit this purpose: rather than trying to manage this mess, I put my trains in the standard "RAIL" and "ELRL" tracks, to make sure they will appear at least "somewhere".
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 04 Jun 2017 19:15

Snail wrote:Not sure about that. Are you using the "autoreplace" and "autorenew" features? What do you mean by "won't renew"... The game won't automatically replace old vehicles with new ones?

And yes, "autoreplace" wouldn't work if you play with liveries a lot (i.e. if you like to refit to a specific livery that's not the standard one).
Yep, that's what happens. Some vehicles won't get replaced, even if I choose not to replace them with a more recent model.
And, looking at my game, I have the issue with an Alsthom-Buire engine, which isn't cause by livery because this one doesn't have any livery that I can refit it to. Unless it's because I am in 1966 and the engine "ran out of liveries"?

I won't comment about a warning message, after playing so long, my game tend to be very slow with warning messages, and I sometime get message that a train is stuck or can't be replaced because of the wrong cars being attached to it...sometime 2 years after I spotted the issue and fixed it :D So the game might tell me why there is an issue, but I can't see it.

Snail wrote:Unfortunately, according to https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels, the Japanese train set uses nonstandard railtype labels ("NGRL", "ELNG", and a few others). As such, you won't be able to mix French and Japanese trains on the same tracks. This is probably why you're experiencing so many issues when you try to mix the two sets.
There's very little I can do about it, apart from adding a parameter to specifically support the Japanese tracks, which I won't do (if I went down this route, I'd have to do it for every nonstandard trackset). :p
I perfectly understand, you already did a massive lot already. :]

Snail wrote:The parameter in my set, that moves all my trains to SG, is there exactly to fit this purpose: rather than trying to manage this mess, I put my trains in the standard "RAIL" and "ELRL" tracks, to make sure they will appear at least "somewhere".
At least it will make the transition from small capacity trains to large ones easier :)
Tho, what I meant that that, even if your train rail set is disabled, either by the game or by the option "Do not use FSRails" OpenTTD still want to use your narrow gauge unpowered lines. Which sounds like it's not the desired behavior.

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 06 Jun 2017 16:03

So, the idea amused me much, and so I ran a test playground : two stations. Ran each and every trains (from your set) until they age, and get renewed, and then testing if they can be replaced (with Iron Horse' Walker Diesel engine).
Not a single train was refitted to check if liveries are in cause or not. No wagons or cars have been attached to any train to remove any instance of replacing the trains failing because of a bad combination of trains.
The game is set with "Vehicles never expire", automatically renew older vehicles, and I started it in the year 2077 so I was sure I had all the engines.
I guess that a date so late might cause some liveries-related issues not showing up.

Tho, I'm not 100% sure I got all your trains. So far I have 41 engines running. The idea is first to let them run old to check if they can be renewed or not. If they can, then they run again to be replaced with the Walker engine. So I cover both situations.
The result after running that for quite longer than expected (I'm kinda glad none of your machines last longer than 31 years :p )

Autorail NK and ZM+MR doesn't auto-renew, and refuse to be replaced by another machine.
Autorail ABH and ZM doesn't renew, no matter what (unrefitted, refitted to both liveries and to mail) and refuse to be replaced.
Automotrice Thomson-Buire and Alsthom-Buire doesn't renew and can't be replaced.

All other machines stand well, get renewed and autoreplaced.

Miscellaneous things I noticed :
Autorail JM slow down to 45kph in tunnels.
Autorail NK slows to 37/38kph in tunnels.
Running all of yours trains for ZERO profit and zero wagons cost about 150 000€ a year :D (minus the infrastructure)

There is a lack of electric engines, there is only the Thury and Sécheron. By chance, did any other electric engine was mad in the 70's and 90's, or it's no luck te see one in this set? :)) (I like electric engines.)

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5275
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2017 16:20

Lesarthois wrote: Autorail JM slow down to 45kph in tunnels.
Autorail NK slows to 37/38kph in tunnels.
This might be intentional (or not). In fact, the game uses a feature named "tunnel resistance", with speed reduction being affected by setting the cw property in the newgrf.

regards
Michael
Image

Lesarthois
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 19:49

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Lesarthois » 06 Jun 2017 17:07

Yep, but I looked at other train in this set, and even weak engines aren't affected by it, or other autorails.

I figured out it was intentionnal. Another cool feature that I don't remember seen used in another set.

I pointed it out because only two machines seems affected, which might be either because Snail plan to use it on other machines, or he doesn't plan to use it and forgot to remove it from those. Or left it for careful testers to find it :D

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Snail » 07 Jun 2017 12:40

Lesarthois wrote: Autorail NK and ZM+MR doesn't auto-renew, and refuse to be replaced by another machine.
Autorail ABH and ZM doesn't renew, no matter what (unrefitted, refitted to both liveries and to mail) and refuse to be replaced.
Automotrice Thomson-Buire and Alsthom-Buire doesn't renew and can't be replaced.

All other machines stand well, get renewed and autoreplaced.
Ah! I know now why it's happening.
The railcars you mentioned can carry both mail and passengers. Because of this, they need to be coded as 3-part engines (i.e. articulated); they're technically made up of different train IDs. What I suspect, is that OTTD's "autorenew" mechanism doesn't support this way of building trains, so it won't allow them to be renewed.

On the other hand, I know no other way to make a vehicle transport 2 different types of cargo, so I'm afraid there's not much I can do (other than filing a request to fix "autorenew" so that it supports this).
Lesarthois wrote: Miscellaneous things I noticed :
Autorail JM slow down to 45kph in tunnels.
Autorail NK slows to 37/38kph in tunnels.
Well, that was not intentional... :shock: I'll have to have a look at my code.
Michael, do you have an idea of why this might be happening? Anything specific I'd need to check in my m4nfo code?

But yes, I agree it'd be a cool feature if I could get the hang of it! :p
Lesarthois wrote: There is a lack of electric engines, there is only the Thury and Sécheron. By chance, did any other electric engine was mad in the 70's and 90's, or it's no luck te see one in this set? :)) (I like electric engines.)
There is one more engine, the motorized van of the Annemasse-Sixt company (the same that has the Alsthom-Buire railcar): but that appears in the 1940s if I remember correctly. And there are quite a few railcars, both catenary and 3rd rail: the latest one I've coded is the Z150 of the Cerdagne line (2 more will be coming in the final version).
I love electrics too, but unfortunately, they weren't very popular among narrow gauge lines!
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5275
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by michael blunck » 07 Jun 2017 14:07

Snail wrote:
mb wrote:
Lesarthois wrote: Autorail JM slow down to 45kph in tunnels.
Autorail NK slows to 37/38kph in tunnels.
the game uses a feature named "tunnel resistance",
Michael, do you have an idea of why this might be happening? Anything specific I'd need to check in my m4nfo code?
Hm, thinking about it, "tunnel resistance" and the general "airdrag coefficient" should be two different, but related things.

In m4nfo, function airdrag() sets the air drag coefficient used inside the "realistic acceleration model" (to be set by game-settings -> vehicles -> physics). Setting the airdrag coefficient will affect vehicles in general, especially with helping weaker vehicles to reach their defined max speed.

OTOH, "tunnel resistance" is one of the physical properties being taken into account for the underlying realistic acceleration model in TTDPatch, from where OTTD´s realistic acceleration model is descending from.

In any way, you should experiment with setting a parameter for airdrag().

regards
Michael
Image

User avatar
Comm Cody
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1048
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 22:21
Location: In a galaxy far far away.

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Comm Cody » 23 Jun 2017 19:23

Using the OpenGFX+ landscape grf, it is possible to have a sort of alpine climate. Still arctic, but the brown grass is replaced by green. Certainly fun with the Swiss set, although to have the french narrow gauges would be nice.

Also, sorta old beta tester checking in, haven't been on the forums since a year, two years?
Something goes here, hell if I know.

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Playtesting phase

Post by Snail » 24 Jun 2017 03:09

Comm Cody wrote:Also, sorta old beta tester checking in, haven't been on the forums since a year, two years?
Welcome back!
I've added a couple of trains since the last beta test, and fixed a few bugs. The final release hopefully won't be too far ahead.
Feel free to message me to get the latest working version.
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

User avatar
Snail
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 18:52
Contact:

Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge: Translations needed!

Post by Snail » 29 Sep 2018 19:27

Hi all,

After all this time, the set is now finished! :))
It will be published in the Releases thread as soon as the Readme file is updated.

In the meantime, one thing I would love to have, is more translations. While we wait for this project to be added to the online translator, I'm posting a zipfile here, with all the strings (in English) as they appear in the Set. I'll post it both here and on the first page of the thread (it's the same file).

If you'd like this set to be localized in your own language, please download the file and send me the version in your language. Any help would be greatly appreciated! ;)

Cheers
Attachments
ng frenchset strings.zip
English strings for trainset and trackset
(4.89 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here


Post Reply

Return to “Graphics Development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Voyager One and 9 guests