GEAR "cargo" usability

[Wahazar]

Is GEAR "cargo" considered as obsolete feature, or it will be preserved (I mean, industry sets will reserve empty slot in future).
I know about new NARS version without this feature, but my question results from another issue: locomotive livery refits.
Currently you cannot use refit for vehicle which doesn't carry any cargo. As an result, if you want to have different liveries,
you must assign 0 capacity of certain common cargo (usually passengers or mail).
It is slightly confusing, if cargo filters are in use.
Is it recommended to use GEAR for locomotive livery refit?

[Supercheese]

Is it recommended to use GEAR for locomotive livery refit?

I should certainly think not. Obsolete "feature" (really more of a workaround that is no longer required) is obsolete.

[Eddi]

you cannot expect that industry sets will be compatible with your set if you use GEAR cargo. Nothing otherwise prevents you from using it, now or in the future, however, everyone will tell you it's a bad idea.

alternatively, if filtering for cargo bothers you, you can make it refit to any cargo (by using cargo classes)

[PikkaBird]

(I mean, industry sets will reserve empty slot in future)

They don't reserve an empty slot now. Definitely don't use it.

[planetmaker]

Is it recommended to use GEAR for locomotive livery refit?

It is and was an idea for a workaround with horrible side effects. Don't think about using it in a vehicle set.

[Eddy Arfik]

Referring to this topic http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=72099, specifically the part about using a refit to run empty tractor truck, if using PASS with 0 capacity is no option because it breaks orders due to different rv stop types, and using GEAR is considered bad practice and not supported, what is correct way to do this?

[planetmaker]

Use different vehicles!

[Eddy Arfik]

Use different vehicles!

Not sure what you mean by that. I don't want to actually carry passengers in my truck, simply a way to have a truck with trailer that can also drive without a trailer in some situations, I have been doing this by hiding the trailer when refitted to GEAR cargo.

[andythenorth]

Use different vehicles!

simply a way to have a truck with trailer that can also drive without a trailer in some situations

Use a capacity refit with cargo subtype strings. Just have the graphics switches look at the current subtype.

You can probably do it while leaving the capacity intact, or you could set capacity to 0 with the capacity cb. With capacity 0 you _might_ find auto-replace breaks, in which case set capacity to 1 unit.

So you'd have refit menu something like

Coal (show trailer)
Coal (hide trailer)
Wood (show trailer)
Wood (hide trailer)

Although if I was doing it, I'd probably just hide the trailer if current cargo amount is 0 (maybe make that a player-visible parameter).

[Wahazar]

What about allowing refit if there is none cargo allowed but there are subcargos string defined?
Is such approach possible, or rather messy?

They don't reserve an empty slot now. Definitely don't use it.

OK, this implies another question - is it a bad feature to use all 32 slots for industry set?

[planetmaker]

OK, this implies another question - is it a bad feature to use all 32 slots for industry set?

No. Cargo is inherently linked to industries. It's their purpose to define cargoes.

[Eddi]

you could also just hide the trailer if it's empty... no weird refit orders

[Wahazar]

Despite of all official "gear bad feature" statements, is slot 30 (0x1E) usually used for GEAR "cargo" ?

[Alberth]

Use the label, so you don't have to bother about numbers?

[Wahazar]

Use the label, so you don't have to bother about numbers?

But there is cargo Id and cargo number property in NML cargo definition block.
If I understand correctly, I must to define GEAR cargo by myself?

[planetmaker]

Really, there is absolutely no reason to use GEAR cargo when working with vehicles. And there's plenty of reasons not to.

You break about every assumption one should be able to rely one and you'll throw horrible NewGRF incompatibilities at the user's faces which they will only realise when it's too late and they already wasted time playing a savegame broken beyond repair. And then they'll come here and will waste time by asking why OpenTTD is wrong while it's just a borked NewGRF.

[Wahazar]

In my opinion, GEAR cargo (if used for 0 capacity vehicles) is very useful for refitting those,
but indeed, if industry newgrf is loaded before vehicle newgrf and accidentally it is using same slot as GEAR,
industry will be broken.
Is there any way to check if the given cargo slot is already defined
(to have opportunity to disable GEAR feature instead of overwrite it)?

[andythenorth]

Don't use GEAR cargo. Pikka invented it, it was hax at the time, and he will tell you roughly the same if he shows up here. It's of no benefit, and causes unwanted headaches.

[mart3p]

Don't use GEAR cargo. Pikka invented it, it was hax at the time, and he will tell you roughly the same if he shows up here.

He already did.

They don't reserve an empty slot now. Definitely don't use it.