Alternative render template for 3Dmax

[akaction]

Thanks to Maquinista i created (based on my Loco template) new template for rendering models. I tryed to use Wiki template but render time was to long (~ 5-7 min per sprite on my computer), so with Maquinista help i adopted template for 32-bit OTTD with shadows. This template much faster (3 sec/sprite on my computer).

Instructions:
0) Unzip & Open template "My_template.max"
1) Merge your model with template

2) in my case file name with my model (which i want to canvert to OTTD is example.max)

3) It will be better if your model have already had grooped into 1 object (in my example it is train with object name "train")

4) when you merge your model into this template, you shall allign your model to "blue square". Blue square is train/bus template (for measuring size of the model)


5) After that you shall delete "blue square" and "select and link" your model with white line square

6) Now select ligth object "For_shadows"

7) Go to the "Modify" panel -> "General parameters" scroll -> "shadows" scroll

Exclude your model illumination from this light


If you want to exclude second shadows you can for the "FOR_lighting" light exclude shadows.


9) Render this scene (default save folder is C:\!ED2T\3Dmax)

[maquinista]

Thanks, It will be useful.

[akaction]

I updated template. Now blue-box indicates maximum bus size for terminus. So if you want to park this bus at the terminus (end points of line) you need to fit your bus into this blue-box.

Also just in case i add my 3Ds max settings

[Ben_Robbins_]

I'm all for a faster render time, but don't replace something unless you have proven that it is the same but quicker. Can we have some experimental renders. Cubes of white-light grey-grey-dark grey-black on a white plane, same on black for shadow checking. Same for primary and secondary colours. There are plenty of shots to try to recreate in old Light set-up conversations. My previous request seemed to be completely ignored, but the point still stands.

[akaction]

I updated my old template, and only one thing that i changed is reduce the size of the blue-box to indicates the limits of the bus for terminus.

I saw your last post but i did not understand what do you mean. I posted template for 3D Max. It works and shadows are displayed. Everyone can do anything with this template (to change any parameters). I can create only necessary views for the game (to render sprites from my model). To see how changes in render (in colour, materials, lights and etc.) depends on changes in game it is necessary to code these sprites. But as i see we have only one working "coder" - Maquinista. The same as other people he has not enough time for this hobby. So as i think if he has some free time he will code something (bus, train, house...) for game, but not just to play with different parameters.

I don`t know how to create primary or secondary colours. In Locomotion it depends on special palette colours (modification of violet and ruby colours). How to create primary or secondary colours for OTTD 32-bit i don`t know. Explain it if your know. I am newbie in OTTD 32-bit.

[Ben_Robbins_]

It's not just about if shaddows are or are not displayed. Lets get them matching.

My point made as simple as possible. Is...

The work made with a 'new Light Setup' needs to look the same as work made with the 'current Light Setup'.

Test this new Light Setup so we can see that it matchs.

We need 1 Light Setup. Not many.

We can't have everyone changing it all the time for different sets of models. Work will look different to other work, and it will waste a lot of time on changing settings, and/or photoshopping work to look the same. Time lost because of a time saving change to the 'Light Setup'.

My point on the other thread was:

You compared renders between the 2 light setups. But...you textured the bus to fit the new light setup, so it didn't fit the wiki light setup. This is like wearing shorts and a t-shirt to the north pole and saying that 'clothing' doesn't work! Try taking the train .max file and rendering that in the new light setup. You can alter the rgb levels for the texture so that it works. Then render so we have 2 images that are as similar as you can get them, and compare render times, and/or small differences.

[akaction]

Yes, they are different. But i don`t know how to make 8 different veiws by WIKI template (how to rote vehicle) because it has distorted coordinate system.
My template has "dummy" which move vehicle in the right way, but WIKI template does not have it and my "dummy" does not work with coordinate system of WIKIpedia template.
WIKI template absolutely not controllable. I know this guru (who created wiki template) has a lot of knowledge, but others don`t. Whith this WIKI template will work regular users not a "guru" like he (otherwise they need not such template). I work with 3Dmax for 2 years and i don`t know how to adapt this WIKI template for my purposes.

[Ben_Robbins_]

Need to check this later, but your render from the wiki template seems not to have shaddow on the spot-light.

There is a huge difference in the renders anyway, not sure if that even needs to be said.

[NeMic]

Hi, I tried to open this Scene with 3DS Max 2009 and I get the following error. Has anyone an idea what's the reason for this error.

[akaction]

Hi, I tried to open this Scene with 3DS Max 2009 and I get the following error. Has anyone an idea what's the reason for this error.

I am working with 3D max 2010 (English version). Recently my HDD was formated so i installed new OS and 3dMAX 2010. So i stared with 0. I try to use my tepmlate yesterday and it works.

If maquinista help me you will see new trains soon.

[Mr Whippy]

I'm not sure where I got my Max template from here, but it's dated 2007 (I made the template, but I obviously used references back then from the Blender one iirc)

All I can seem to gather is that the light source is twice as high as it is offset from the target laterally... so if the light is offset 100 units x 100 units in the ground plane, the height is 200 units.


The camera is aligned for isometric rendering as per the TTD config.

The light is perpendicular to the camera in the top down perspective. Ie, shadows are cast directly to the left hand side.

I think I just balanced the light values to the existing TTD elements (ie, the lit grid in full sun vs shade has the correct balance), and then just checked white, mid-grey and black points.


This was just some weird tank I was tinkering with for the oil depot at the time.



It's a 2010 file but I'll happily post an FBX for anyone interested. I'm pretty sure at the time it was set up correctly as per all the guidelines here... but I did re-balance the lighting as the Blender one looked a bit over-bright at the time with even mid-greys blowing out to white etc.


Thanks

Dave

[planetmaker]

The light is perpendicular to the camera in the top down perspective. Ie, shadows are cast directly to the left hand side.

You should fix the light direction. It should come around 45° off the camera position to the right and top - and not the 90° to the right as in the sprite you show.

[PikkaBird]

You should fix the light direction. It should...

"Should" is a bit strong, artistic licence and all.

If you replace all the sprites in the game, you can light them any way you like. Or if you don't mind your lighting not matching others'...

[planetmaker]

You should fix the light direction. It should...

"Should" is a bit strong, artistic licence and all.

If you replace all the sprites in the game, you can light them any way you like. Or if you don't mind your lighting not matching others'...

Well... yes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaaCRPQ3My8 (he's absolutely right, I think)

[Mr Whippy]

Ah ok so the lighting comes from the lower right corner of the isometric grid?!

I wonder why this template was set up the way it was then hehe. Ah well it's over 6 years since I made it.


It'd be nice to make some graphics for sure, but consistency is indeed key.

My only real issues with the 32bpp set right now is the 'fat' trains... they are the only thing where the visual style stands apart from the lovely buildings which have a more realistic proportional balance.

The Intercity 125 just looks wrong to me, my favourite 80's train all fat

Dave

[Supercheese]

Ah ok so the lighting comes from the lower right corner of the isometric grid?!

I wonder why this template was set up the way it was then hehe. Ah well it's over 6 years since I made it.


It'd be nice to make some graphics for sure, but consistency is indeed key.

I have always found this lighting-angle illustration helpful:

[Taken from this post: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 75#p951529.]

[Mr Whippy]

Oh ok, so shadows are at an arbitrary angle offset from the grid!?

I guess it's best to present these as a pair of angles, elevation and rotation, since they are obviously not 'obvious' proportions or angles etc.


I suppose back when they made the sprites it was low-res and low colour palette and thus important to just make things look nice before other considerations. Ie, shadows may move around in apparent angle so the pixel stepping patterns or shading patterns look nicer rather than are 100% consistent between assets.


Thanks again

Dave

[planetmaker]

Oh ok, so shadows are at an arbitrary angle offset from the grid!?

I guess it's best to present these as a pair of angles, elevation and rotation, since they are obviously not 'obvious' proportions or angles etc.

I suppose back when they made the sprites it was low-res and low colour palette and thus important to just make things look nice before other considerations. Ie, shadows may move around in apparent angle so the pixel stepping patterns or shading patterns look nicer rather than are 100% consistent between assets.

That assessment certainly is right. Well, generally looks should come before strict adherence to any fixed rules when it comes to graphics. But then, when rendering, it's easy to set the light direction and get shadows and consistent lighting for free.

Not sure there's an exact angle defined anywhere. But something around 45° (maybe up to 60° as in the illustration Supercheese linked) off the camera position towards East (right). To make it consistent with the existing 32bpp sprites, you could also look at the blender files which ship with zBase.

[V453000 :)]

Honestly,
For one if sone loads extra zoom 32bpp sprites into the game, it already looks SO different that there is immediate need to replace basically everything.
For two zBase looks so terrifyingly bad that I wouldnt suggest to rely on any convention it has created as long as the "new convention" looks better and the light isnt totally off the chain.

I like the direction of your light and will likely use the same, if not the whole template entirely.

[planetmaker]

You totally miss the point.

This is not about combining 8bpp with 32bpp or any particular set or how you think it is. It's about using one common idea on where the light comes from. Going by different assumptions when creating 8bpp than for 32bpp or vice versa is a totally stupid thing to do.