Transport Tycoon Forums

The place to talk about Transport Tycoon
It is currently Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:22 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:54 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:10 pm
Posts: 852
I created simply newgrf, which build logging camp instead of forest in temperate and subarctic climate.

Logging camp is similar to tropical lumber mill - it cut trees and produce wood.
There is already some newgrf which allow lumber mill to appear in other than tropical climate, albeit it works exactly like lumber mill - must to be build by player.

In case of logging camp, this facility appears both on random map creation and during game play, and wood base price is like for temperate/subarctic wood.

The aim of this logging camp newgrf is to control tree growth, not only for aesthetic reasons, but also to keep compressed map weight within allowed download time limit.
Because logging camp is dismantled when run out of trees, new logging camp would appear in other place of the map and start to cut trees here.
Finally we would obtain a natural balance between forest area and logging camp number.
Bias of such balance depend on two factors:
1. multiple_industry_per_town setting - if set true, there would be large number of logging camps and small tree quantity (I recommend to switch multiple off if you want to preserve some forest in non-populated areas)
2. logging camp manpower setting - if setting is off, logging camp closure procedure is identical like for lumber mill - in this case industry is more stable, therefore more trees will be preserved.
If setting is on, logging camp would be dismantled almost instantly if run out of trees - such settings results in faster rotation of creation/annihilation of lumber mills, and trees would be catted more effectively.
Additionally, with manpower option on, you can deliver passengers to lumber camp - those passengers would be "stored" for while as working crew and protect your lumber camp against closure due to lack of tree. Passengers must to be delivered to logging camp houses.

Logging camp have 8 different layouts, 4 flat and 4 with slide. Some layouts are compact, some sparse - my intention was to protect some area against growth of nearby city or other players infrastructure.
Some graphics are just opengfx sprites slightly reworked.
Here are some examples of layouts (note: there is no snow- awareness yet):
Attachment:
File comment: flat layout
loggingcamp-flat.png
loggingcamp-flat.png [ 197.16 KiB | Viewed 8597 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: slope-aware layout
loggingcamp-slide.png
loggingcamp-slide.png [ 412.81 KiB | Viewed 8597 times ]

Top of the hill is rather unsuitable for logging camp. It would protect some trees in high mountains.

Some tiles of logging camp layout have special meaning.
Grass tiles with heap of logs are productivity indicator - in case of no wood was produced in last month, heap is almost empty.
Grass tiles with three trunks are wood transport indicator - in case some wood was transported last month, logs heap appears.

Newgrf is not compatible with manpower industry - because it is already merged as a part of manpower industry,
but I decided to create standalone logging camp newgrf due to usefulness for long mutliplayer sessions with massive maps.
If other industry set is used, logging camp would appear as alternative wood source, instead of forest replacement.

Enjoy fruit of my work available on banana tree service.
Project source is on #openttdcoop Development Zone.

_________________
My experimental openTTD server: 149.156.194.203:3979 non-standard client, now testing: JGRPP-0.17.2 http://tiny.pl/ggnch
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


Last edited by McZapkie on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:01 pm 
Offline
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 5181
Location: The Moon
Very nice. :)

_________________
Pikkarail.com blog Image
Dev reference: NML Specs - NewGRF Specs - Savegame Internals - NoAi API - NoGo API
32bpp NewGRFs: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - Graphics Development


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:26 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:19 pm
Posts: 16980
Location: Harringay, North London
Great job!

_________________
Albion: A fictional Britain

Official TT-Dave Fan Club
Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:17 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:22 am
Posts: 862
Location: Beer
That looks fun :D

_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:30 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:44 pm
Posts: 9006
Location: Sol d
Ah, that's lovely! I might actually want to see those layouts in OpenGFX+ Industries, too :) And / or maybe those wood tracks as objects in OpenGFX+Landscape (or a possible separate NewObject NewGRF).

_________________
Image
OpenTTD: manual | online content | translations | Wanted contributions and patches
#openttdcoop: blog | wiki | public server | DevZone | NewGRF web translator
DevZone - home of the free NewGRFs: OpenSFX | OpenMSX | OpenGFX | Swedish Rails | OpenGFX+ Trains|RV|Industries|Airports|Landscape | NML


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:08 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 4305
Location: home
Hmm, protecting forest by working as crew in a loging camp

Sounds a bit contradictionary :D


Couldn't you change it to "visiting a historic logging camp site"?

_________________
Being a OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:30 am 
Offline
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 262
I'd like to use this in tropical alongside full FIRS economy, because that one replace the lumber mill with temperate style forest. Would it be possible to make this also for tropical?


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:36 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:10 pm
Posts: 852
planetmaker wrote:
Ah, that's lovely! I might actually want to see those layouts in OpenGFX+ Industries, too :) And / or maybe those wood tracks as objects in OpenGFX+Landscape (or a possible separate NewObject NewGRF).

You are welcome, but let me complete some features: missing NE, NW slope, snow-aware tiles and buildings, tile with animated smoke
- bonfire or maybe locomobile or stationary steam engine:
http://www.skagitriverjournal.com/WestC ... pragg.html
Animated smoke is useful if you seek for logging camp among the trees.
I want also add some other small buildings to get something similar to this:
Image
(from https://greshamoregon.gov )

By the way, object have OBJ_FLAG_ALLOW_BRIDGE flag, is it possible to have such flag for industry tiles?

Alberth wrote:
Hmm, protecting forest by working as crew in a loging camp
Sounds a bit contradictionary :D
Sorry, it looks like a small misunderstanding. Of course, working crew does not protect forest.
It protect unused (due to temporary lack of trees) logging camp facilities (all those precious huts and dirty tracks) against dismantling and vanishing.
Here is example of unprotected logging camp:
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... tected.png
It is working well as long as there are tree within 40 tile range, but you if you forgot to plant new trees, it will be closed.

If passenger service (bus or railcar) is established, logging camp is protected and even if you are off-line, it will survive:
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... tected.png
Of course, it would stop producing wood (unless some new will grow), but still will be idle.
BTW, you can also see on the minimap, that tree growth is tampered, even after 100 years of game.
It is a main purpose of this newgrf.

Eddy Arfik wrote:
I'd like to use this in tropical alongside full FIRS economy, because that one replace the lumber mill with temperate style forest. Would it be possible to make this also for tropical?

Tropical is disabled, because I need to tweak logging camp layouts - by now, there are many foundations constrains and therefore this industry is located usually in valleys. In case of tropical climate, rainforest is located in mountains - it is maybe a reason, why tropical lumber mill occupy only 4 tiles.
Additionally, I can't replace FIRS industries, only original old ones.
Maybe I can override FIRS lumber yard Id (0h29), I didn't tried it and I'm not even sure, if such overriding is possible, safe and accepted.


Last edited by McZapkie on Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:56 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 4203
Location: Standing by the jams
There are many small buildings in FIRS and CHIPS that you could lift if you use GPL. Also ISR.

Over-riding FIRS industries is tricky, but probably possible, think it might depend on grf order though :)
If you want to do it as add-on, there are one or two free IDs but no guarantee they won't get used in future.
http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... industries

_________________
Want to help OTTD development? Here's the official list of bitesize patches needed: http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list

FIRS Industry Replacement Set (Released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (Finished)
Squid Ate FISH (ships) (Released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (Finished)
Iron Horse (trains, released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse, released) | Busy Bee (game script, released)


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:19 pm 
Offline
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 262
I was thinking not to replace the forest in FIRS, but to add as extra for the tree-cutting purpose. As for the problem with tile layout, normal tropic maybe isn't so good with for that, but if you load a mountainous arctic heightmap as tropical climate, you get rainforest in valleys and on flat plateau :D Maybe I can look at the source to see if I can get the effect I'm after in my game


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:39 am 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:25 pm
Posts: 175
Location: kotka or Savitaipale, Finland
This is great addition. :) definitely goes to our multiplayer server standard selection. :)


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:16 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:44 pm
Posts: 9006
Location: Sol d
McZapkie wrote:
You are welcome, but let me complete some features: missing NE, NW slope, snow-aware tiles and buildings, tile with animated smoke
- bonfire or maybe locomobile or stationary steam engine:


I don't know how you drew those tracks. I thought you just drew the tracks without ground and use them as overlay on top of the ground tiles which you then would not provide and which would then even adopt to whatever ground a player plays with.

McZapkie wrote:
Animated smoke is useful if you seek for logging camp among the trees.
I want also add some other small buildings to get something similar to this:

By the way, object have OBJ_FLAG_ALLOW_BRIDGE flag, is it possible to have such flag for industry tiles?

Steam in order to find the logging camps might indeed be useful. Bridges currently cannot be over industries, but it might be possible to add such flag to industry tiles, too.

McZapkie wrote:
Maybe I can override FIRS lumber yard Id (0h29), I didn't tried it and I'm not even sure, if such overriding is possible, safe and accepted.

It's much easier to add an industry and I'd not recommend to override a FIRS industry - it would tie your NewGRF to an exact version of FIRS (as things might change in FIRS). Replacement only makes sense IMHO when you to mimic also the production changes and adhere to the FIRS parameters. Better add it as an additional industry.

_________________
Image
OpenTTD: manual | online content | translations | Wanted contributions and patches
#openttdcoop: blog | wiki | public server | DevZone | NewGRF web translator
DevZone - home of the free NewGRFs: OpenSFX | OpenMSX | OpenGFX | Swedish Rails | OpenGFX+ Trains|RV|Industries|Airports|Landscape | NML


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:10 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 1432
Location: Russia, Samara
Great job. Superbly done. :D

_________________
STD screenshots
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STD saved games - My finished scenarios and saves from the game
My Youtube channel - OpenTTD | Wiki xUSSR set (RU) | Wiki xUSSR set (EN)
Download the latest version of the xUSSR set
TT Screenshot of the Month - the page editor


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:41 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:10 pm
Posts: 852
New version uploaded to bananas, with more flexible layouts.
It now works with tropical climate, but in this case, creation probability is zeroed - it is just lumber mill replacement,
and you must to fund it yourselves like lumber mill.
The reason is, that wood base price is higher than for other climates - I don't want to break such balance.

planetmaker wrote:
I don't know how you drew those tracks. I thought you just drew the tracks without ground and use them as overlay on top of the ground

Of course, those track are transparent child sprite, some slopes were missing but now there are complete, all 4 plain slopes.
I'm using only GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL by now and I don't now how those track looks like in case of snow - if contrast is too high, snowy tack must be provided.

andythenorth wrote:
There are many small buildings in FIRS and CHIPS that you could lift if you use GPL. Also ISR.
Thank you, it would be great to add some "look and feel" related to ISR wood station.

I changed Industry Id to 3Fh to avoid conflict with FIRS.

_________________
My experimental openTTD server: 149.156.194.203:3979 non-standard client, now testing: JGRPP-0.17.2 http://tiny.pl/ggnch
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:55 am 
Offline
President
President
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 949
Location: Birmingham, England
I'm trying this now with my customised FIRS industry grf. One AI has already set up a wood carrying service.

It looks promising, good work.

One issue discovered, not sure if it's this grf to blame?

An AI created a passenger service (to grab a subsidy). It's in range to pick up passengers but not close enough to deliver passengers.

Attachment:
Logging Test, 13th Apr 1947.png
Logging Test, 13th Apr 1947.png [ 72 KiB | Viewed 8081 times ]


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:55 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:33 am
Posts: 2493
Location: Poland
Quote:
An AI created a passenger service (to grab a subsidy). It's in range to pick up passengers but not close enough to deliver passengers.

I would consider it as an AI bug - and it would be a good idea to report it to AI thread.

_________________
Correct me If I am wrong - PM me if my English is bad
AIAI - AI for OpenTTD


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:21 am 
Offline
President
President
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 949
Location: Birmingham, England
It's SimpleAI and I'd doubt that the bug would be fixed.

It seems that the path trails are considered part of the industry and therefore produce wood and passengers but only the cabins accept passengers. It could be changed to make the trail ends accept passengers and the 'problem' would disappear.

(just an idea, I'm not saying it needs changing)


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:24 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 4305
Location: home
3iff wrote:
It seems that the path trails are considered part of the industry and therefore produce wood and passengers but only the cabins accept passengers. It could be changed to make the trail ends accept passengers and the 'problem' would disappear.
Several of the default industries also do this, so the AI would still be broken.

_________________
Being a OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:45 am 
Offline
President
President
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 949
Location: Birmingham, England
An interesting phenomenon. A new station has appeared that delivers passengers to the nearby town. The logging camp trails fall into the same station catchment area, result is passengers (crew) now get accepted by the logging camp.

Attachment:
Logging Test, 6th Jun 1974#1.png
Logging Test, 6th Jun 1974#1.png [ 92.78 KiB | Viewed 7935 times ]


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:11 am 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 4203
Location: Standing by the jams
It's usual for industries to accept cargo if their tiles fall within a station catchment :)

_________________
Want to help OTTD development? Here's the official list of bitesize patches needed: http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list

FIRS Industry Replacement Set (Released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (Finished)
Squid Ate FISH (ships) (Released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (Finished)
Iron Horse (trains, released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse, released) | Busy Bee (game script, released)


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000-2017 phpBB Limited

Copyright © Owen Rudge/The Transport Tycoon Forums 2001-2017.
Hosted by Zernebok Hosting.