New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

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New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by supermop » 06 Sep 2016 20:29

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... y_way.html

Interesting purchase, seeing as even the current, 16 year old Alstom Acela sets are too fast for the track they run on. Will be interesting to see if they cascade the Acela locomotives, which seems like would need more wires put up, either for Acelas or other locomotives they displace.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by harrythecat01 » 07 Sep 2016 22:47

Neat article! I hadn't heard about it before. Either way, I am excited to see how Amtrak plans to handle upgrading their track in the Eastern corridor to support 185 mph travel. That is one of the only areas in the country where high-speed train travel is more efficient than airplanes, and I think this line could be a great success if it is upgraded to SNCF specs and is popular with the public. If this is the case, Amtrak could use its newfound income to look into increasing efficiency on the many lines it operates that constantly lose money, and/or look into expanding high speed lines to the West Coast.
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by oftcrash » 08 Sep 2016 17:17

harrythecat01 wrote:Neat article! I hadn't heard about it before. Either way, I am excited to see how Amtrak plans to handle upgrading their track in the Eastern corridor to support 185 mph travel. That is one of the only areas in the country where high-speed train travel is more efficient than airplanes, and I think this line could be a great success if it is upgraded to SNCF specs and is popular with the public. If this is the case, Amtrak could use its newfound income to look into increasing efficiency on the many lines it operates that constantly lose money, and/or look into expanding high speed lines to the West Coast.
I agree. 10 years ago it was $200 for the Acela from Providence to NYC and $100 for regional rail. And with the quality of the rail, mostly in Connecticut, the Acela was only 30 minutes faster. As I said, that was 10 years ago - I don't know what it is now, but I doubt its any better. I would LOVE to have high speed rail from the east coast to Chicago and Minneapolis.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by supermop » 08 Sep 2016 18:15

oftcrash wrote:
harrythecat01 wrote:Neat article! I hadn't heard about it before. Either way, I am excited to see how Amtrak plans to handle upgrading their track in the Eastern corridor to support 185 mph travel. That is one of the only areas in the country where high-speed train travel is more efficient than airplanes, and I think this line could be a great success if it is upgraded to SNCF specs and is popular with the public. If this is the case, Amtrak could use its newfound income to look into increasing efficiency on the many lines it operates that constantly lose money, and/or look into expanding high speed lines to the West Coast.
I agree. 10 years ago it was $200 for the Acela from Providence to NYC and $100 for regional rail. And with the quality of the rail, mostly in Connecticut, the Acela was only 30 minutes faster. As I said, that was 10 years ago - I don't know what it is now, but I doubt its any better. I would LOVE to have high speed rail from the east coast to Chicago and Minneapolis.
Currently Acela is often $200 or more for the peak times to Boston or DC from NYC, and there is basically no pressure to change this - Acela seats are still in demand and are one of the only profitable services Amtrak run. By design or accident, Acela is not trying to compete with Bus fare or slower trains, it is competing with the Shuttle flights to Logan, Reagan, or Dulles that regular business travellers/weekly commuters use. It will always be more convenient than flying, so as long as it remains priced similar or better, and provides similar or better amenities (Acela is all Business and first class, with free wi-fi for years, and big tables to work on), it will continue to draw passengers to fill up capacity (peak Acela services regularly sell out). If you are an NYC based lawyer or Consultant, you can buy a ticket to a client meeting in DC on short notice for less than an economy flight, avoid a trip to the airport, work billable hours for the entire journey there, and arrive in greater comfort at about the same time you would by plane. For comparison, you can fly between many major city pairs in Japan for significantly less than a Shinkansen ticket, but the rail option remains the primary choice for business travelers.

I've seen Acela tickets at odder times for as low as about $100 in the past, but there isn't really a motivating force for Amtrak to make it any cheaper. If anything it would make more sense to improve the service quality and charge more, then add more affordable capacity on the slower services.

I think Chicago to MSP Could make sense for HSR - but I am not sure how a route would get across Pennsylvania and Ohio to Chicago in a way that could compete with flying for time. Currently, any route to Chicago from NYC involves taking a fairly roundabout route through many other cities, and has long stretches through mountainous Appalachian terrain.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by oftcrash » 08 Sep 2016 18:33

I've taken Amtrak from Boston to MSP (about 20 years ago). Its a long haul, but as a college student it was half the price of flying at the time, so duration didn't matter much. Ah, youth. :)

I agree, Chicago to MSP would be nice, though it would have to be very fast for it to really pay off I think. Chicago to Milwaukee would be a lot more useful given the relatively reasonable commuting distance.

When I took the Acela, it was always on my employer's dime, and from the look of it, nearly everyone on board was business. The regional line was a better mix of business and personal travel.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by supermop » 09 Sep 2016 13:48

oftcrash wrote:I've taken Amtrak from Boston to MSP (about 20 years ago). Its a long haul, but as a college student it was half the price of flying at the time, so duration didn't matter much. Ah, youth. :)

I agree, Chicago to MSP would be nice, though it would have to be very fast for it to really pay off I think. Chicago to Milwaukee would be a lot more useful given the relatively reasonable commuting distance.

When I took the Acela, it was always on my employer's dime, and from the look of it, nearly everyone on board was business. The regional line was a better mix of business and personal travel.
Of the few times I've taken Acela, only the first was out of my own pocket - out of curiosity, and in a non- peak time. I look at the tickets now and then for last-minute weekend trips, but the last time I actually rode it was in 2009.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by The Growl » 10 Sep 2016 19:22

Won't tilting add the ability to go faster round corners, Pendolinos and formerly APT-Ps did that in the UK.
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by NoMorePacers » 10 Sep 2016 20:49

But I suppose this is in America, where regulations (I believe) mean that trains have to be built really thick to withstand a crash, which means that there won't be room in the train or the regulations for tilting equipment.
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Pilot » 10 Sep 2016 21:23

The Growl wrote:Won't tilting add the ability to go faster round corners, Pendolinos and formerly APT-Ps did that in the UK.
Indeed Tilting might allow them to go faster around the corners, but will the other traffic allow it? From what I know, the Northeast Corridor is very busy.
NoMorePacers wrote:But I suppose this is in America, where regulations (I believe) mean that trains have to be built really thick to withstand a crash, which means that there won't be room in the train or the regulations for tilting equipment.
May I remind you of Grayrigg? You take a train and throw it off a hill at 90mph, and see how many remain that intact! That had all the room for Tilting Equipment, and by modern UK standards, don't live up to crash worthiness standards, the US on the other hand, has much more generous loading gauge, so therefore, I'm sure they can find room for it, will just result in slightly smaller carriages to remain within Gauge when titling.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by supermop » 11 Sep 2016 04:11

Pilot wrote:
The Growl wrote:Won't tilting add the ability to go faster round corners, Pendolinos and formerly APT-Ps did that in the UK.
Indeed Tilting might allow them to go faster around the corners, but will the other traffic allow it? From what I know, the Northeast Corridor is very busy.
NoMorePacers wrote:But I suppose this is in America, where regulations (I believe) mean that trains have to be built really thick to withstand a crash, which means that there won't be room in the train or the regulations for tilting equipment.
May I remind you of Grayrigg? You take a train and throw it off a hill at 90mph, and see how many remain that intact! That had all the room for Tilting Equipment, and by modern UK standards, don't live up to crash worthiness standards, the US on the other hand, has much more generous loading gauge, so therefore, I'm sure they can find room for it, will just result in slightly smaller carriages to remain within Gauge when titling.
The current Acela trainsets already tilt - in fact there have been tilting trains operating in the Northeast since the 60s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAC_TurboTrain). Currently, clearance on most track miles limits the tilt to 4 degrees. As per the article, the new train sets will also tilt. FRA crash regulations are indeed much more stringent in the US (probably too stringent), which makes it more difficult to design multiple unit trains for mainline use. Most operators here have met regulations by using heavy locomotive hauled stock, and indeed the current Acela trainsets are top-and-tailed with TGV style locomotives/powercars. The new sets will be EMUs, but with a very substantial reinforced crumple zone in the end cars. This reduces seating capacity, but does not prevent the fitting of tilt gear.

Most of these peculiarities of the design are actually fairly well explained for a casual (non-railfan) audience in the slate article I linked, so I thought it might make a good primer for those not that familiar with the Northeast corridor here.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by jvassie » 13 Sep 2016 19:33

I was on the Acela from NYC down to DC on Saturday, the trains themselves are very comfy, even in business class, nice wide reclining leather seats and a well stocked bar. The problem was the track to me, it was quite jarring at times with fairly repetitive sideways jolts, whilst at other times it was extremely smooth. Shame they didn't build a dedicated line for it the entire distance!
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by YNM » 21 Sep 2016 15:46

The Growl wrote:Won't tilting add the ability to go faster round corners, Pendolinos and formerly APT-Ps did that in the UK.
They intendedly turned it off AFAIK. Loading gauge problems.
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Baldy's Boss » 23 Oct 2016 18:06

I've only travelled Acela once,from NYC to Philadelphia (a trip that would be insane to take by car or air).I actually took a commuter train from near home to NY,and a SEPTA train from 30th Street to the convention I was going to near the Reading Terminal.
Still,I'm always enthusiastic about upgrades.

The fate of the existing Acela trainsets is of interest,the press releases imply they will be scrapped.If still serviceable,why not use them wherever track supports them (and upgrade track as possible)?

What I'd most like to see is a Hudson River valley upgrade...right now the tracks are not all electrified (I understand some electrification was actually cut back years ago).Albany-Rensselaer
is one of Amtrak's busiest stations (trains go east to Boston,south to NYC,north to Montreal,and west to Buffalo where they branch to Chicago- or Toronto-bound routes) and getting the whole NYC-Albany route to high speed status would be a great thing (and actually is part of the way from the existing Northeast Corridor to the Hornell factory where Alstom is going to build the new Avelia Liberty trains...how will they be delivered if they can't travel the tracks?)

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Pilot » 23 Oct 2016 22:37

Baldy's Boss wrote:I've only travelled Acela once,from NYC to Philadelphia (a trip that would be insane to take by car or air)
I wouldn't say that trip is insane to take by car, it's only 100 miles, I've done journey's like that several times in a car. In fact, people in the UK are known to drive that sorta distance rather regularly.
Baldy's Boss wrote:The fate of the existing Acela trainsets is of interest,the press releases imply they will be scrapped.If still serviceable,why not use them wherever track supports them (and upgrade track as possible)?
Cost vs Benefits is one factor, after all, very little of the railways in the US are Electrified, and even less are capable of handling trains near to the speeds that the Acela runs at, therefore, there is no obvious place for them to go currently. Whilst it is possible to upgrade the track, it might not be worthwhile when the trains may only be able to run another 10 years before being replaced, which is additional cost.
Baldy's Boss wrote:Albany-Rensselaer is one of Amtrak's busiest stations
Yeah, it's the 9th Busiest Station, with 825,353 passengers using it in 2015... By comparison, Britain's 9th Busiest is London Kings Cross with 31 Million passengers a year. Also, Albany is a city with a population of 1.1 Million (taking into account the whole Metropolitan area), now my nearest Town with a Railway Station (Rochdale) has a population of 100,000 people, yet it's Railway Station sees 1.1 Million people a year. Why am I saying this? Well, it proves that there is very little demand for Rail Travel in the US from the urban areas. If you can convince people to start using the railways, then maybe Upgrades will come, however (in most occasions), upgrade's will only come when they are needed.

Another issue with Upgrading the tracks in the US is the ownership of said tracks, for example, the tracks in Albany are owned by CSX, what are the advantages to CSX upgrading the track? If you start running faster trains on their tracks, that means they can get less freight on those same tracks, which, given the fact they are a freight company, they wouldn't like. If you start suggesting Amtrak build a new alignment, that is indeed possible, however, the costs of finding new alignments for a route can be enormous!
Baldy's Boss wrote:Hornell factory where Alstom is going to build the new Avelia Liberty trains...how will they be delivered if they can't travel the tracks?)
Like this:
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Diesel Locomotives using a Barrier Wagon (the tanker) to couple onto 4th Rail S-Stock Tube trains, allowing the Tube Trains to travel from Derby to London without having to install 4th Rail all the way from Derby to London.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Baldy's Boss » 24 Oct 2016 01:29

Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:I've only travelled Acela once,from NYC to Philadelphia (a trip that would be insane to take by car or air)
I wouldn't say that trip is insane to take by car, it's only 100 miles, I've done journey's like that several times in a car. In fact, people in the UK are known to drive that sorta distance rather regularly.
Much waste of time compared to the train.
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:The fate of the existing Acela trainsets is of interest,the press releases imply they will be scrapped.If still serviceable,why not use them wherever track supports them (and upgrade track as possible)?
Cost vs Benefits is one factor, after all, very little of the railways in the US are Electrified, and even less are capable of handling trains near to the speeds that the Acela runs at, therefore, there is no obvious place for them to go currently. Whilst it is possible to upgrade the track, it might not be worthwhile when the trains may only be able to run another 10 years before being replaced, which is additional cost.
10 years of using trains you already have defers other purchases...
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:Albany-Rensselaer is one of Amtrak's busiest stations
Yeah, it's the 9th Busiest Station, with 825,353 passengers using it in 2015... By comparison, Britain's 9th Busiest is London Kings Cross with 31 Million passengers a year. Also, Albany is a city with a population of 1.1 Million (taking into account the whole Metropolitan area), now my nearest Town with a Railway Station (Rochdale) has a population of 100,000 people, yet it's Railway Station sees 1.1 Million people a year. Why am I saying this? Well, it proves that there is very little demand for Rail Travel in the US from the urban areas. If you can convince people to start using the railways, then maybe Upgrades will come, however (in most occasions), upgrade's will only come when they are needed.
Cutting travel time between NYC and Albany will create demand.
Pilot wrote: Another issue with Upgrading the tracks in the US is the ownership of said tracks, for example, the tracks in Albany are owned by CSX, what are the advantages to CSX upgrading the track? If you start running faster trains on their tracks, that means they can get less freight on those same tracks, which, given the fact they are a freight company, they wouldn't like. If you start suggesting Amtrak build a new alignment, that is indeed possible, however, the costs of finding new alignments for a route can be enormous!
A substantial portion of the track between NYC and Albany is owned by the MTA and by Amtrak.CSX moves freight on their passenger tracks amd should stay friendly.
Baldy's Boss wrote:Hornell factory where Alstom is going to build the new Avelia Liberty trains...how will they be delivered if they can't travel the tracks?)
Like this:
Image
Diesel Locomotives using a Barrier Wagon (the tanker) to couple onto 4th Rail S-Stock Tube trains, allowing the Tube Trains to travel from Derby to London without having to install 4th Rail all the way from Derby to London.[/quote]

Can be delivered more quickly & conveniently if under their own power...

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Pilot » 24 Oct 2016 07:18

Baldy's Boss wrote:
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:I've only travelled Acela once,from NYC to Philadelphia (a trip that would be insane to take by car or air)
I wouldn't say that trip is insane to take by car, it's only 100 miles, I've done journey's like that several times in a car. In fact, people in the UK are known to drive that sorta distance rather regularly.
Much waste of time compared to the train.
Is it though? According to the directions available on Google Maps, the journey is 1 hour and 40 minutes in a car, and 1 hour and 27 minutes on Public transport, so by taking the train, you are only saving yourself 13 minutes, but that doesn't factor into account the travel time to/from the station. It also doesn't factor into account that taking your car door to door can be much more convenient, as it allows you to travel at any time of day that you wish to, as well as giving you more freedom once you have arrived at your destination.
Baldy's Boss wrote:
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:The fate of the existing Acela trainsets is of interest,the press releases imply they will be scrapped.If still serviceable,why not use them wherever track supports them (and upgrade track as possible)?
Cost vs Benefits is one factor, after all, very little of the railways in the US are Electrified, and even less are capable of handling trains near to the speeds that the Acela runs at, therefore, there is no obvious place for them to go currently. Whilst it is possible to upgrade the track, it might not be worthwhile when the trains may only be able to run another 10 years before being replaced, which is additional cost.
10 years of using trains you already have defers other purchases...
The fact is though, you may have to buy new commuter trains at the time of opening said upgrades, and so if you buy all the stock (commuter and express) with one manufacturer at the same time, you may be able to get a bulk discount, which brings the overall price down. It also depends on if the older trains need to undergo an overhaul or not, which also increases the price of keeping the older trains in service. It also takes time to do such upgrades, years in some cases, by the time the new Amtrak trains are introduced (2021), the old one's will already be 5 years older, then you might only have 5 useful years out of them, by which point, you're already thinking about ordering their replacement anyway.
Baldy's Boss wrote:
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:Albany-Rensselaer is one of Amtrak's busiest stations
Yeah, it's the 9th Busiest Station, with 825,353 passengers using it in 2015... By comparison, Britain's 9th Busiest is London Kings Cross with 31 Million passengers a year. Also, Albany is a city with a population of 1.1 Million (taking into account the whole Metropolitan area), now my nearest Town with a Railway Station (Rochdale) has a population of 100,000 people, yet it's Railway Station sees 1.1 Million people a year. Why am I saying this? Well, it proves that there is very little demand for Rail Travel in the US from the urban areas. If you can convince people to start using the railways, then maybe Upgrades will come, however (in most occasions), upgrade's will only come when they are needed.
Cutting travel time between NYC and Albany will create demand.
Not necessarily, whilst the "If you build it, he will come" way of thinking has been known to work, it doesn't always. For example, the Channel Tunnel, which predicted 15.9 Million people on Eurostar trains alone in the first year. Last year (2015), they only handled 10.4 Million people, and that is 20 years after it opened. (If you're interested, in their first full year of operation (1995), they handled a mere 2.9 Million).
Baldy's Boss wrote:
Pilot wrote: Another issue with Upgrading the tracks in the US is the ownership of said tracks, for example, the tracks in Albany are owned by CSX, what are the advantages to CSX upgrading the track? If you start running faster trains on their tracks, that means they can get less freight on those same tracks, which, given the fact they are a freight company, they wouldn't like. If you start suggesting Amtrak build a new alignment, that is indeed possible, however, the costs of finding new alignments for a route can be enormous!
A substantial portion of the track between NYC and Albany is owned by the MTA and by Amtrak.CSX moves freight on their passenger tracks amd should stay friendly.
I'm not suggesting that CSX fall out with Amtrak and the MTA, however, if there is no benefit to them, there is no incentive for them to do the upgrades. From what I have read this morning, Amtrak lease the CSX track between Poughkeepsie and Schenectady (I have no clue where they are, but you appear to be local, so may have an idea), and are already investing in the line using Government Money, however, whether the Government have the money to invest in Upgrades to High Speed electric standards, remains to be seen. If the upgrades that are being completed help Amtrak to create further demand for the trains they already run (and are planning to run) between NYC and Albany, then maybe they will start to see the advantages of electrification.
Baldy's Boss wrote:
Pilot wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:Hornell factory where Alstom is going to build the new Avelia Liberty trains...how will they be delivered if they can't travel the tracks?)
Like this:
*image snipped*
Diesel Locomotives using a Barrier Wagon (the tanker) to couple onto 4th Rail S-Stock Tube trains, allowing the Tube Trains to travel from Derby to London without having to install 4th Rail all the way from Derby to London.
Can be delivered more quickly & conveniently if under their own power...
Whilst it can be quicker and more convenient, does it make economic sense to do so? Now if the line near by was electrified, then yes, it would make sense to electrify to the factory, however, as in this case it isn't, it would make sense to loco-haul it to where it needs to be. Some of them also appear to be being built in Rochester, do you suggest we electrify all the way to Rochester to allow the new build trains to travel under their own power from there as well?

One thing I will say is that running a modern railway infrastructure is not like OpenTTD. You can't drag and drop track and electric cables where you like, such investments take years of planning, obtaining funds and then constructing, and even then, there is no guarantee that someone will use what you have just spent all that money on, which is why economic predictions are normally made, which even then, can be wrong (read about the Channel Tunnel above).

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Ameecher » 24 Oct 2016 11:19

Population density in many US cities combined with generally poor onward transport connections (I exclude much of the NE corridor in this) means that arriving in a downtown station can still leave a long way from your destination, especially with no onward metro connection.

European cities on the other hand have a very tight nucleus and tend to have decent onward connections and their airports are often far out of town.
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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by supermop » 24 Oct 2016 14:27

Just a few notes to add -

While in much of the US, you would indeed be better off taking a car rather than train if the journey times were similar, this does not hold at all for New York. I find that Google maps estimate woefully optimistic, but even if you were to drive in the middle of the night to avoid traffic approaching the city, you still have to contend with with traffic and parking in the city, which are never easy regardless of time of day. There have been times driving in Manhattan where I have spent more than 30 minutes to find parking, circling around blocks, which would be an unreasonable addition to a journey of less than two hours. Even if you are willing to to pay steeply for garage parking, there is no guarantee that your preferred garage has available space. Generally there are only certain specific circumstances that make driving into Manhattan from an origin with rail connection sensible (have to carry a large object, etc). Otherwise it's much less of a headache to spend a bit longer on a combination of train, subway, and walking.

Albany is just out of reach for long distance commuting, however. While some people, particularly those working in state government, regularly make the trip, the volume is not comparable to that within the Metro North catchment. Between Metro North, LIRR, and New Jersey Transit, most of the longer distance commuters to the city are already served by frequent electric trains - the boundaries between electric and diesel service pretty well map to the relative population density.

As for the existing train-sets, it is frustrating to see them go, but there are few places that make sense for them, and they will be more than 20 years old at time of retirement. It is totally reasonable that they would need to be disposed of or totally overhauled at that time. Amtrak has certainly gotten their money's worth out of them (Acela, unlike much of Amtrak, is highly profitable). Refitting for some other regional use, plus another 20 years of upkeep on aging stock, probably cannot compete with a new contract for trains and maintenance at the time a new service is ready.

For what it's worth, I don't know if I have ever seen commuter or high speed stock delivered under its own power, even over short distances. I think there must be a question of liability as well. Overhead lines all the way to the Alstom plant would cost more than the whole trainset order, and would push delivery back another 5 years. Would make more sense to fly all the contractually required american employees to an Alstom plant in France, build there, and then ship the trains back on a boat.

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Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Baldy's Boss » 27 Oct 2016 04:30

supermop wrote:Just a few notes to add -

While in much of the US, you would indeed be better off taking a car rather than train if the journey times were similar, this does not hold at all for New York. I find that Google maps estimate woefully optimistic, but even if you were to drive in the middle of the night to avoid traffic approaching the city, you still have to contend with with traffic and parking in the city, which are never easy regardless of time of day. There have been times driving in Manhattan where I have spent more than 30 minutes to find parking, circling around blocks, which would be an unreasonable addition to a journey of less than two hours. Even if you are willing to to pay steeply for garage parking, there is no guarantee that your preferred garage has available space. Generally there are only certain specific circumstances that make driving into Manhattan from an origin with rail connection sensible (have to carry a large object, etc). Otherwise it's much less of a headache to spend a bit longer on a combination of train, subway, and walking.
And of course it is the specific journey from NY Penn Station and 30th Street,Philadelphia that I was referring to as insane to take by car...there are mass transit connections at both ends.
supermop wrote: Albany is just out of reach for long distance commuting, however. While some people, particularly those working in state government, regularly make the trip, the volume is not comparable to that within the Metro North catchment. Between Metro North, LIRR, and New Jersey Transit, most of the longer distance commuters to the city are already served by frequent electric trains - the boundaries between electric and diesel service pretty well map to the relative population density.
If the tracks down the Hudson were upgraded to take the Acela/Avelia trains,though,the reduced trip time between NYC and Albany would change the equations.

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Pilot
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General Forums Moderator
Posts: 7516
Joined: 04 Aug 2010 15:48
Location: Manchester

Re: New Amtrak Alstom Purchase

Post by Pilot » 27 Oct 2016 08:24

Baldy's Boss wrote:And of course it is the specific journey from NY Penn Station and 30th Street,Philadelphia that I was referring to as insane to take by car...there are mass transit connections at both ends.
However, who is going to just take that journey alone? And whilst there are mass transit links at both ends, these can still add 30 minutes-1 hour to the journey time. And at what extra cost is such a journey too?
Baldy's Boss wrote:If the tracks down the Hudson were upgraded to take the Acela/Avelia trains,though,the reduced trip time between NYC and Albany would change the equations.
Can I see your studies to prove that will happen?

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