[FRDF] Game controls

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 15 Feb 2005 21:21

jfs wrote:
zuu wrote:As ChrisCF stated, everything should be doable via the keybord.
I wonder, could a requirement like this work? "The game must be fully playable on a computer where the only input device is a Happy Hacking keyboard." Or is that too strict?

That depends - you can perform just about every keystroke possible on a 102-key board as on the HH board (just that some of the "claws" are a little different, and possibly awkward - is it two buttons to achieve the equivalent of "F1"?).

I can live without the middle button on my mouse - thank $DEITY for 3-button emulation.

Ultimately, it comes down to what people can reasonably do. It's not reasonable to ask people to go spend £50 on a multimedia keyboard to use the "Internet Home Page" button to retrn the view to your company HQ. Though it's fairly reasonable to expect people to trade in their Mac mouse for a real mouse*, as cheap as they are. Mate of mine is a Mac lover - the first thing he did when he bought one recently was buy a 2-button mouse for it.

The important part is that the game can be played with primary control through mouse or keyboard with a minimum of forced switching. Players with both hands at keyboard should not have to reach for the mouse too often, and neither should those with one hand each on keyboard or mouse have to pull both hands to the keyboard, away from the mouse.

The console can be a very powerful tool, but (with the possible exception of obscure features, like direct engine access) nothing should be entirely reliant upon it. However, it will prove useful for testing, as well as for advanced users looking to generate macro packages. Just because you can't drive, don't make the rest of us walk.

* Better still, trade in the Mac for a real computer

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 19 Feb 2005 08:51

I can agree on to put 2-buttons minimum requrement for the miouse. However I would prefere it the mouce buttons can be mapped to any keybord key. Or at least use alt + left click as menu click (aka right click) which is the way apple does.

I think a good way of maping hardware input devices and software actions are important. To take a example: The biggest reson I see to play OpenTTD over TTDP is that you can use the keybord to select tools, which makes construction faster and less trying for your mouse arm.

I think ergonomy is important, which I think this is mostly about. To choose what is most confortable for you. Becuse games aquire input directly from the hardwarte, overiding the settings your window manager provides, we have to provide some flexibility for the users.

Other things that is not mentioned here, but that I have noticed that users have complained about is that the mouse sensibility is also overriden, so if you have a settting that differs much from the default you will probably be pretty anoyed.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » 19 Feb 2005 18:49

zuu wrote:Becuse games aquire input directly from the hardwarte, overiding the settings your window manager provides, we have to provide some flexibility for the users.

Exactly; we have no way of knowing what the control setup of users' window manangers would be and if we don't allow users to change their controls it is eventually going to lead to some conflict. If nothing else, we should be going for it for this reason alone.

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 20 Feb 2005 15:16

Let's make a poll out of this. (Because else, this dicussion will never end

)

User controls:

Customizable, with as minimum requirement a two button mouse or a one button mouse with a key on the keyboard selecting LMB or RMB.
Fixed controls

I vote (a).

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 20 Feb 2005 15:44

Antoher vote for (a), specifying two-button mouse as minimum.

jfs · Post by **jfs** » 20 Feb 2005 16:42

Fixed controls would be downright stupid. Pretty much every new game allows a very high degree of controller-customisation, and people have grown used to that. I doubt anybody would really accept not being able to customise the controls (without recompiling the game.)

I vote A.

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 20 Feb 2005 18:17

I vote A.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 20 Feb 2005 19:14

Not much of a poll... everyone is obviously going to say A, as it has no disadvantages to the player!

I think my minutes summarised quite nicely what we decided in the meeting and what everyone can agree too. (Well, except maybe Chris)

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 21 Feb 2005 09:30

Steve wrote:Not much of a poll... everyone is obviously going to say A, as it has no disadvantages to the player!

I know. It was mostly an attempt to end this topic in a very unnatural way. I'll read the minutes later today.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 21 Feb 2005 19:56

Meeting Decisions:

- Should be customizable.
- Shortcuts for building options.
- Needs to support mice with just 2 buttons
- Standard window controls, such as tab to switch between buttons
- Shortcuts to everything for people with limited horizontal mobility
- Additional console for advanced control. But shouldn't be forced.

Status: More to add?

[There's more to it than "keyboard freaks", some people have genuine problems - C.]

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 13 Nov 2006 21:18

Nothing decided about scrolling, do we want it to be automatic once you reach the border (handy when constructing).

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 13 Nov 2006 21:38

I want the following methods for scrolling:
- Scroll when touching the border
- Hold right mouse and scroll
- Use the arrow keys

I didn't read the entire topic, only Hyro's resurecting

m4rek · Post by **m4rek** » 13 Nov 2006 22:09

i dont want to scroll by RMB, that might best be used for rotating camera and such (it is full 3d isnt it?)

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 13 Nov 2006 22:17

M4rek wrote:i dont want to scroll by RMB, that might best be used for rotating camera and such (it is full 3d isnt it?)

I am used to the following for 3D movement:
- Scroll wheel for zooming in/out.
- Holding scroll wheel/3rd mouse button for rotating.
- Holding the right mouse button for scrolling.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 14 Nov 2006 07:17

XeryusTC wrote:I want the following methods for scrolling:
- Scroll when touching the border
- Hold right mouse and scroll
- Use the arrow keys

I didn't read the entire topic, only Hyro's resurecting

Agreed, the 'touching the border' one should be optional IMO.

I am used to the following for 3D movement:
- Scroll wheel for zooming in/out.
- Holding scroll wheel/3rd mouse button for rotating.
- Holding the right mouse button for scrolling.

I'd also use something like - or +, or PgUp or PgDn to zoom in or out.
Usually whenever you need or can rotate in 3D games, I'd not an advantage. I'd rather have a fixed camera, tho rotating could be optional (tho, not necessary to play game game, IMO).

aarona · Post by **aarona** » 14 Nov 2006 11:24

Touching the border can be irksome if its accidental. With holding the RMB down, you are removing any accident.

Of course the more options the merrier!

m4rek · Post by **m4rek** » 14 Nov 2006 17:49

aarona wrote:Touching the border can be irksome if its accidental. With holding the RMB down, you are removing any accident.

Of course the more options the merrier!

so we can have a small padlock icon in the corner somewhere that disables mouse scrolling?

and to go with it an icon where you can modify scrolling settings. ie, scroll speed, disable/ enable mouse scroll etc.

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 14 Nov 2006 23:41

aarona wrote:Touching the border can be irksome if its accidental. With holding the RMB down, you are removing any accident.

Of course the more options the merrier!

Not to mention that border-touching require relative mouse input.

Locked until the DD discussion arrives at this issue.

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[FRDF] Game controls

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