Re: NotRoadTypes
Posted: 28 Dec 2017 18:54
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I thought of it as a simplification, so that trolleybuses can run on any road if catenary is availableandythenorth wrote:Why would buses be implemented as trams? It makes very little sense to me.
NewGRF authors will always discover new "indispensable" *typesacs121 wrote:As i said, why not enumerate all the roadtypes you have in mind ? People are talking about elevated subways and crazy stuff, we should list it.
Just another idea: Separate tram lines and catenaries from each other, which takes just two bits. That way, we could have plain tram lines for horse and steam trams, catenaries with no rails for trolley buses, and rails+catenaries for electric trams. Legacy GRFs with trams should of course always take the latter as default.Kruemelchen wrote:I thought of it as a simplification, so that trolleybuses can run on any road if catenary is availableandythenorth wrote:Why would buses be implemented as trams? It makes very little sense to me.
Which, to me, seems like a tram without rails but using bus sprites.
Additionally it would solve the problem of how to distinguish road catenary and tram catenary, since there would only be one catenary available via tramtype layer on top of the road.
Although, if roadtype vehicles could check if a tramtype catenary is present, that would solve that problem, too.
My other idea was to have just 1 kind of catenary which could be build upon any road- and/or tramtype.
But then, if NewGRF authors do want to implement different voltages etc. this would not be straightforwardly possible.
It's all just ideas, though
I'm sure the developers' internal code will be very generic and will not provide the actual road types you suggest. The specific road types and supporting features such as catenary would only be determined by the GRFs created by authors and artists.acs121 wrote:So, at the beggining, for roads we have road, heavy-haul road and road with catenary.
Then, for tramtypes yet we only have tramway and electrified tramway.
The GRF itself, contains road and heavy-haul road, as well as tramway and tramway with catenary. We could at least include trolleybus, and the issue is here and we were talking about it : how to have trolley / tram combined ?wallyweb wrote:I'm sure the developers' internal code will be very generic and will not provide the actual road types you suggest. The specific road types and supporting features such as catenary would only be determined by the GRFs created by authors and artists.acs121 wrote:So, at the beggining, for roads we have road, heavy-haul road and road with catenary.
Then, for tramtypes yet we only have tramway and electrified tramway.
All the internal code would say is "Yes, you can have road types. Yes, you can have tram types. Yes, you can have catenaries for trams and/or trolleys. Yes, you can have properties such as names, cost, maximum/minimum speed, cargoes, etc. Yes, you can draw the sprites."
Now you've got it.acs121 wrote:how to have trolley / tram combined ?
So, if they can't run on the same catenary / electric current, then I'd go with wallywebs suggestion to separate both graphically, which, ideally, should be done by GRFsMcZapkie wrote:Trams and trolleys usually doesn't share same road alongside, due to incompatibility of current flow,
but there are crossings of trolleybuses and tram lines in many towns - it should be possible.
ATM it's not possible to separate the 2 lanes of a tile, so no 1-way-road for trams (1 or 2 lanes) possible.acs121 wrote:Actually, in OpenTTD you have only 1 tile for 2 tramtracks, or 2 trolleybus lanes. It's an evidence you can get them on separate lanes then.
In my grf, they are drawn differently! One conductor for tram wire, two for trolleybus wire, just like real life. Trolleybuses cannot use regular overheadwire as they cannot use rails as a return path for current - hence the two trolley poles and two wires. At least as far as I am concerned, this distinction should be retained - a tile can have wires for rubber tired buses, or for trams on rails, or both, or neither, but trolley buses can't take power from tram wires, nor vis versa.wallyweb wrote:My suggestion is for the GRF's artist to draw them differently.acs121 wrote:how to have trolley / tram combined ?
Actually in your NewGRF, the Electrified Road being considered as a road type, you can lay any tramtracks over it, be it with or without catenary. This isn't a problem though, don't worry, OpenTTD itself has some realism issues, but we can play with it. And we wouldn't like to have to destroy the buildings on the roadside to build a tramline.supermop wrote:In my grf, they are drawn differently! One conductor for tram wire, two for trolleybus wire, just like real life. Trolleybuses cannot use regular overheadwire as they cannot use rails as a return path for current - hence the two trolley poles and two wires. At least as far as I am concerned, this distinction should be retained - a tile can have wires for rubber tired buses, or for trams on rails, or both, or neither, but trolley buses can't take power from tram wires, nor vis versa.wallyweb wrote:My suggestion is for the GRF's artist to draw them differently.acs121 wrote:how to have trolley / tram combined ?
Of course, that is indeed the intended behavior, I don't really see why it would be otherwise - Road with wires for trolleybus is of course a type of road, and tramway of any type is a tramway... While it is very rare in the real world, and a bit of a mess to wire up, it's not impossible for two-conductor wires to cross, or even run along with single-conductor supply.acs121 wrote:Actually in your NewGRF, the Electrified Road being considered as a road type, you can lay any tramtracks over it, be it with or without catenary. This isn't a problem though, don't worry, OpenTTD itself has some realism issues, but we can play with it. And we wouldn't like to have to destroy the buildings on the roadside to build a tramline.supermop wrote:In my grf, they are drawn differently! One conductor for tram wire, two for trolleybus wire, just like real life. Trolleybuses cannot use regular overheadwire as they cannot use rails as a return path for current - hence the two trolley poles and two wires. At least as far as I am concerned, this distinction should be retained - a tile can have wires for rubber tired buses, or for trams on rails, or both, or neither, but trolley buses can't take power from tram wires, nor vis versa.wallyweb wrote: My suggestion is for the GRF's artist to draw them differently.
That's IMHO to generalised.acs121 wrote:That share was possible as the trolleys and trams had the same way to get electricity : a trolley pole.
Wire systems for trolleys and trams are fundamental different. The trams need "only" one-pole-wires because the other electrical pole is the rail. Trolleys have no rail as second pole. So they need in contrast to a typical tram system a two-wire-overhead-system.acs121 wrote:However, most tram systems, mostly the French and English ones, have trams getting elctricity via a pantograph, and it's the same for most of west Germany.