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 Post subject: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:48 am 
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I always get to a point where i have to build bridges over large lakes/rivers, but i have water traffic going through it, meaning i have to stay with the bridges, and the rails get clogged up, but with a Water Tunnel, which would allow boats down this tunnel, could make it A LOT easier!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:01 pm 
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As in this Wiki page, people already suggested it. People are working on it, as you can see in this thread. A lot has been done already. Hopefully for us it's a matter of waiting.

Edit; the boats go in that tunnel? Oh okay. I tried rereading the sentence and honestly I don't exactly understand it. Try printscreening and posting the problem.

You mean a tunnel for boats that goes through land? A tunnel for trains that goes through water (which would be my original post)? Or a tunnel for boats through water (which seems awkward)?

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:09 pm 
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He means a tunnel for boats that goes through land, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:15 pm 
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It is something completely unrealistic and redundant. You can build canals.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Kogut wrote:
It is something completely unrealistic and redundant. You can build canals.

Quite so when on flat land. But if you want to "cross a mountain" it might be a nice feature. But as far as I know it doesn't happen in reality either so I wonder how desirable it is to include this in OpenTTD.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Hyronymus wrote:
as far as I know it doesn't happen in reality


It does:
http://www.thepotteries.org/location/districts/boathorse4.htm
http://www.americancanals.org/Union%20Canal%20tunnel%20with%20boat.jpg
http://www.ajacob.com/events/Wedding_2003/600_boat_tunnel.jpg

And realism is no criterium to include a feature or not (ask Belugas :lol: ). I think it could be interesting, especially on mountain landscapes, where locks are extremely difficult to place.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:04 pm 
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A major problem with water tunnels is glitches when ships go into tunnels. The kind where 25 percent of the ship is shown in the mountain, 20 percent is in the tunnel entrance and 55 percent is outside of the tunnel.

These glitches aren't fixable, so you are asking us to add something that we are already 100% certain of is glitchy, broken by design and a major cause of bug reports.


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:21 pm 
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Realism isn't a criteria per se but can indicate how much a feature is core to the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:58 pm 
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cmoiromain wrote:
Hyronymus wrote:
as far as I know it doesn't happen in reality


It does:
http://www.thepotteries.org/location/districts/boathorse4.htm
http://www.americancanals.org/Union%20Canal%20tunnel%20with%20boat.jpg
http://www.ajacob.com/events/Wedding_2003/600_boat_tunnel.jpg

And realism is no criterium to include a feature or not (ask Belugas :lol: ). I think it could be interesting, especially on mountain landscapes, where locks are extremely difficult to place.


Thanks for amazing photos!

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Kogut wrote:
cmoiromain wrote:
Hyronymus wrote:
as far as I know it doesn't happen in reality


It does:
http://www.thepotteries.org/location/districts/boathorse4.htm
http://www.americancanals.org/Union%20Canal%20tunnel%20with%20boat.jpg
http://www.ajacob.com/events/Wedding_2003/600_boat_tunnel.jpg

And realism is no criterium to include a feature or not (ask Belugas :lol: ). I think it could be interesting, especially on mountain landscapes, where locks are extremely difficult to place.


Thanks for amazing photos!


That's not exactly the scale feasible for OTTD ships ;)

Now show me a tunnel which can fit tanker into it :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 pm 
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This may not be nessessarly realistic, but i mean A LOT of features you find in the game are unrealistic, i dont see why this 1 thing would change it all :P


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Rubidium wrote:
A major problem with water tunnels is glitches when ships go into tunnels. The kind where 25 percent of the ship is shown in the mountain, 20 percent is in the tunnel entrance and 55 percent is outside of the tunnel.

These glitches aren't fixable, so you are asking us to add something that we are already 100% certain of is glitchy, broken by design and a major cause of bug reports.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:40 am 
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CommanderZ wrote:
That's not exactly the scale feasible for OTTD ships ;)

Now show me a tunnel which can fit tanker into it :roll:


Real-world oil tankers carry millions of cubic metres of oil. The largest tanker in TTD carries 350 cubic metres. Perhaps the scale problem is with the ship graphics, not with the tunnel idea...

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:27 am 
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Tunnels for larger ships.
http://kanaler.arnholm.nu/english/norge ... nnele.html
http://en.structurae.de/structures/data ... d=s0010963
http://home.zonnet.nl/mouringh.marga/St-Quentin.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Rubidium:
If the glitches were not taken into account, how difficult would it be to code? There are many glitches in, for example, LV4, but that does not stop it from being very interesting to play with.
As for the problem of implementing it to the pathfinder, maybe the ships should ignore it, unless being explicitly told to use it (like a kind of buoy, it has to be in their orders).

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:21 pm 
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It's relatively simple; tunnels and bridges are very alike.


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Hoi cmoiromain,
If my memory serves me right the patch in the link below has functional canal tunnels ( != underwatertunnels).
I tested it long time ago and also shows the glitches mentioned by Rubidium before.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=34987&hilit=ship+in+tunnel

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Nice! Thanks for the link!
Maybe a (partial) solution to these glitches would be to have a tunnel entrance using the whole tile:

Attachment:
tunnel.png
tunnel.png [ 4.2 KiB | Viewed 4111 times ]


One question I have, though: is there a way of drawing the ship sprite after the tunnel one, rather than the contrary? It would prevent the ship from being cut in two (using the idea I just illustrated). The ship would still overlap the land a little, but it would be IMO less annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:05 am 
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There are ship tunnels in the UK, I should mention they are actually tunnels for canals, meaning narrowboats.


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 Post subject: Re: Water Tunnels
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:00 am 
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cmoiromain wrote:
Hyronymus wrote:
as far as I know it doesn't happen in reality


It does:
http://www.thepotteries.org/location/districts/boathorse4.htm
http://www.americancanals.org/Union%20Canal%20tunnel%20with%20boat.jpg
http://www.ajacob.com/events/Wedding_2003/600_boat_tunnel.jpg

And realism is no criterium to include a feature or not (ask Belugas :lol: ). I think it could be interesting, especially on mountain landscapes, where locks are extremely difficult to place.



i really liked the 3rd photo


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