Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Got an idea for OpenTTD? Post it here!

Moderator: OpenTTD Developers

How do you like the Idea

Good
98
89%
Bad
5
5%
I didn't understand the idea
1
1%
equal
6
5%
 
Total votes: 110

Ishka
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 00:35

Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Ishka » 21 Nov 2008 00:59

Hello,

if one could build bridges over stations an stations on bridges, it would be possible to build crossing stations. I made a picture, so that it is (hopefully) clear, what I mean. If not, ask. If it's clear, what do you think about?
mockup.png
Mockup of the idea.
mockup.png (320.12 KiB) Viewed 8751 times

User avatar
Zhall
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1244
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 01:36
Skype: moonray_zdo
Location: Teh matrix, duh.
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Zhall » 21 Nov 2008 01:21

Here comes the... Openttd GUI does not operate like sim city 3000, the game is 12 isometric layers and does not support underground or platformed stations... This is the reason why we dont have signals in tunnels or bridges.. la la la if you want to go through the code and fix it then i would like to see you try la la la...

But who will say it? Dalestan? Belugas? Who knows? 8o

User avatar
BlueEagle_nl
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 351
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 09:44
Skype: tilly5014
Location: Tillywood, The Netherlands

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by BlueEagle_nl » 21 Nov 2008 08:59

It would make the lay-out of tracks less complicated, if this would be possible... no extra track piece in front of a tunnel to place a signal, saving space for building a large station, we'll just build another layer on top!

But indeed, it's hard to code...

User avatar
Brianetta
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2566
Joined: 15 Oct 2003 22:00
Location: Jarrow, UK
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Brianetta » 21 Nov 2008 11:04

I rather suspect the devs would rather hold off for a generic solution; that is, a bridge that is coded such that anything can be built on it. Bus stations, railway stations, signals, switches, canals...

It would be really cool to have a bridge on which I could build an Industrial Renewal Set gantry crane. (:

This is a bridge re-write, though. Currently, if I'm not very much mistaken, the bridge itself is a form of wormhole (a little like tunnels are) where what's on the bridge doesn't actually exist on the map. Since the map array is just a big grid, without any elevation information (aside from the elevation of the land itself) this is one of the problems which is known to be difficult.
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED

User avatar
CommanderZ
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1872
Joined: 07 Apr 2008 18:29
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by CommanderZ » 21 Nov 2008 11:51

The engine already supports bridges over anything, but there are conditions preventing players from building them. The trouble is that the game has no idea how high the object really graphically is - there are ground level platform stations, but you can also have stations several floors high (see ISR).

User avatar
Brianetta
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2566
Joined: 15 Oct 2003 22:00
Location: Jarrow, UK
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Brianetta » 21 Nov 2008 13:17

CommanderZ wrote:The engine already supports bridges over anything
That's not the only issue. Anything on bridges is what's stopping the show.
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED

User avatar
CommanderZ
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1872
Joined: 07 Apr 2008 18:29
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by CommanderZ » 21 Nov 2008 13:21

Brianetta wrote:
CommanderZ wrote:The engine already supports bridges over anything
That's not the only issue. Anything on bridges is what's stopping the show.
Yeah, i was referring to this part:
if one could build bridges over stations
Btw stations on bridges sounds stupid. The rail / road running under a sation should be tunnel in such situation. And I can't imagine a station build on bridge over some houses.

User avatar
Brianetta
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2566
Joined: 15 Oct 2003 22:00
Location: Jarrow, UK
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Brianetta » 21 Nov 2008 13:30

CommanderZ wrote:Btw stations on bridges sounds stupid.
Only because you haven't seen one. This link is South Shields Metro Station, which is a railway station on a bridge; there are hundreds of examples, I just chose that one because it's the nearest one to my house. St. Peter's (also on the Metro) was built on and around an existing bridge; the platforms are glass!

A railway station on a bridge is more often known as an elevated railway station. Berlin's Hauptbahnhof is basically two of these at right angles to each other (with a shopping mall filling all the gaps).

It's not stupid. Whether it's suitable for OpenTTD is a different matter altogether.
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED

User avatar
BlueEagle_nl
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 351
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 09:44
Skype: tilly5014
Location: Tillywood, The Netherlands

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by BlueEagle_nl » 21 Nov 2008 13:48

Indeed, it's not stupid. IE, here in The Netherlands, it's used also especially when space is a problem. In Dordrecht, two of the three train stations are on a bridge (Dordrecht South and Dordrecht 'Stadspolders'), the one with a single track, and the other with a very busy double track...

Ishka
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 00:35

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Ishka » 21 Nov 2008 14:40

Sapphire united wrote:Here comes the... Openttd GUI does not operate like sim city 3000, the game is 12 isometric layers and does not support underground or platformed stations... This is the reason why we dont have signals in tunnels or bridges.. la la la if you want to go through the code and fix it then i would like to see you try la la la...
What does the GUI has to do with the data structure.

For a station on a bridge (if it is on the whole bridge) you just need to save the type of the bridge as station (what I think there should be enough space in the map array, not more space to implement than one more bridge type), signals on bridges would need much more space in the map array, as there would have to be much more information to be stored (as I understood from other threads I have read here on the forum, I didn't manage to understand the code). Therefore station on a bridge should be possible, signals on a bridge not.
CommanderZ wrote:The engine already supports bridges over anything, but there are conditions preventing players from building them. The trouble is that the game has no idea how high the object really graphically is - there are ground level platform stations, but you can also have stations several floors high (see ISR).
I haven't known that there were such stations in the game. This will add unforeseen complications to my idea.
CommanderZ wrote:Btw stations on bridges sounds stupid. The rail / road running under a sation should be tunnel in such situation. And I can't imagine a station build on bridge over some houses.
I have seen stations on bridges, but I can't remember bridges over houses (which is not possible in openttd too), so you don't have to imagine a station on a bridge over a house ;)

Thank you for so much feedback :)

User avatar
CommanderZ
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1872
Joined: 07 Apr 2008 18:29
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by CommanderZ » 21 Nov 2008 15:47

you just need to save the type of the bridge as station (what I think there should be enough space in the map array, not more space to implement than one more bridge type)
Nope, every station tile holds some data on its own - at least the sprite type.

Ishka
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 00:35

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Ishka » 21 Nov 2008 15:57

CommanderZ wrote:
you just need to save the type of the bridge as station (what I think there should be enough space in the map array, not more space to implement than one more bridge type)
Nope, every station tile holds some data on its own - at least the sprite type.
Spirit type is a good point. So stations on bridges have to look uniform on each tile (an my mockup is misleading), but more data per tile should not be necessary, or did I oversee something else?

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5271
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by michael blunck » 21 Nov 2008 16:19

Ishka wrote: if one could build bridges over stations an stations on bridges, it would be possible to build crossing stations.
This is even possible w/o those non-existant features:

Image

(Original post)

Brianetta wrote: A railway station on a bridge is more often known as an elevated railway station. Berlin's Hauptbahnhof is basically two of these at right angles to each other (with a shopping mall filling all the gaps).
Not always. The picture of South Shields just shows a bridge adjacent to a station. There may be platforms on the bridge but I wouldn´t say this is a "station on a bridge". Your second example however looks more like the request. 8)

On another note, not every "elevated railway station" is a "railway station on a bridge". In particular, Berlin´s stations on the "Stadtbahn" are all elevated (the whole track is elevated to reduce traffic problems), but most of them aren´t "on a bridge", only some of the smaller ones (on the outer Ringbahn). Indeed, large stations like Friedrichstrasse

Image

would have been too large to be placed "on a bridge".

Since TTDPatch allows "custom stations" on slopes, this feature can be used in building "elevated stations" (but o/c not "on a bridge"):

Image

(Original post and discussion)

regards
Michael
Image

User avatar
Brianetta
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2566
Joined: 15 Oct 2003 22:00
Location: Jarrow, UK
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Brianetta » 21 Nov 2008 17:00

michael blunck wrote:The picture of South Shields just shows a bridge adjacent to a station.
No. It most certainly does not. That bridge is the station, and the entrances are at each end of the bridge. In fact, I can't think of a more clear example of a station on a bridge than that one. It is exactly that; on a bridge.
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED

michael blunck
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5271
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by michael blunck » 21 Nov 2008 17:12

Brianetta wrote:That bridge is the station [...]
Ah. From the picture it looked as if the building on the left was part of that station. Similar like in the picture I posted. It would be quite common for an elevated station to extent over adjacent streets by bridges. In South Shields, any buildings seem to have been removed?

regards
Michael
Image

User avatar
Brianetta
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2566
Joined: 15 Oct 2003 22:00
Location: Jarrow, UK
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Brianetta » 21 Nov 2008 18:34

michael blunck wrote:
Brianetta wrote:That bridge is the station [...]
Ah. From the picture it looked as if the building on the left was part of that station. Similar like in the picture I posted. It would be quite common for an elevated station to extent over adjacent streets by bridges. In South Shields, any buildings seem to have been removed?

regards
Michael
If there were any. At each end is a semi-enclosed structure containing a staircase or ramp, a lift and some ticket machines. You can wander under the station freely; it spans three streets. Trains roll out of the station onto an embankment, then onto a very long viaduct towards the next station. It's weird seeing nothing but roofs from above as you approach the station in a train. It's also weird seeing your train waiting from the street below, and wondering if you can sprint up the stairs to catch it.
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED

User avatar
CommanderZ
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1872
Joined: 07 Apr 2008 18:29
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by CommanderZ » 21 Nov 2008 19:33

michael blunck wrote:(..about the elevated station..)
This is beautiful. Did you ever release this one? I knew Red*Star made such elevated station graphics (which are still being coded), but completely missed this one.

Ishka
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 00:35

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Ishka » 21 Nov 2008 22:25

This is not exactly the same idea. With tunnels under stations you can make the rail crossing the station, but not let a station cross another station (as my idea would). Unless, of course, one allows stations in tunnels, which would be another nice feature, but with the need to introduce different types of rail tunnels.

User avatar
athanasios
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3138
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 00:09
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by athanasios » 22 Nov 2008 01:49

Here is KOROPI complex suburban/metro/bus station. The station is accessed via a bridge. The bridge also serves as a bus station and terminal and as a parking.

(Photo when under construction - sorry couldn't find a newer one. Next time I go shopping at IKEA I 'll take my camera).
Attachments
SS_Koropi1_large.jpg
SS_Koropi1_large.jpg (237.88 KiB) Viewed 8385 times
http://members.fortunecity.com/gamesart
"If no one is a fool I am also a fool." -The TTD maniac.


I prefer to be contacted through PMs. Thanks.

User avatar
Qu@rks
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 494
Joined: 26 Mar 2006 23:16
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Bridges over Stations, Stations on Bridges

Post by Qu@rks » 22 Nov 2008 13:59

I work at IKEA... but not at that one ;-)

Besides that, I always wanted a feature like that. Building multi-level-stations would make things so much more conveniant, especially if space is limited. It would also make station designs like this one redundant...
Attachments
cross station.PNG
(1.03 MiB) Downloaded 366 times
Make love instead of war! Poppen statt kloppen!

Image

quarks.game-host-org:3979

Post Reply

Return to “OpenTTD Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests