Need some help optimizing junction and station

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Dj Duck
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Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Dj Duck »

Hi there

im looking for some advice on how to optimize my junction and station in the map "Custerville"
Big picture.png
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1st How to get more/better flow to the station ??
Station.png
(177.46 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
2nd: How do i get more speed out of this "little space" junction ?
Junction.png
(158.35 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
my main problem is that jams do occure cause of the slow entrance to the station, and when that happens a whole bunch of trains gets cought
im playing r17879
if a save is needed pls let me know as 3 attachements is the maximum :lol:

Oh and if anyone is in the mood then im looking for someone that could enlarge "Custerville" to a bigger map! would be greatly appreciated
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Xeo »

First of all I'd spread the entrance lines towards the station.
Trains from the north west can get a straight access to the station, if you let them enter north of the factory, instead of go all around it.

Then you'll have more room to spread the four remaining lines from the south entering the station. Now they'll block each other when going for the most north west platforms. If you let two of those enter at the center (around like platform 5, counted from left) of the station instead of all four lined up south, blocking will occur less.
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Dj Duck
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Dj Duck »

hehe yeah of course :lol: typical that you can't see it yourself....
ty it helps quite a bit for now lets hope it can handle 100+ trains
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Zuu »

Thanks for telling us what factor you want to improve in your "optimization". Far too many people want to optimize things without telling based on what factor. Is it flow, speed or .. ? Still do you really want the global optimum or just something better than your current solution?

Oh, and by the way. Flow is usually defined as [speed] * [density]. So having a many trains going slow can give the same density as having a few trains going fast.


Looking at your second problem. Just one screenshot can only tell one snapshot of the situation there. Based on the situation on this single screenshot it looks like on the line from lower left to upper right you have high density. This I assume is the queue of trains waiting to enter the station. Unless the (possible) inflow to the station is improved, that is your bottle neck, and then it can actually be good to have some queue in front of the bottleneck according to some logistics theory.

So, maybe you could describe where your problem is in this intersection.

Edit: One thing you could do on the track with high density in your third screenshot is to move the bridge one tile backwards. That way a train could proceed onto the bridge and be more ready to continue when the traffic moves forward.
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by audigex »

If you post the savegame and revision number, someone may have a go at changing it on your map as a demo :-)

Here's what I can come up with in a few minutes, bear with me :-)

First things first, removing that s-shape which is slowing down a lot of your traffic.
Remove those sections in YELLOW and replace them with the areas in RED (tunnel at the BLUE)
That should very quickly improve that section.

Which leaves the biggest problem as the 90degree turn at the GREEN circle. I can see two options.
Either remove the GREEN circle and the attached bridge, and add in the PURPLE loop.
Or move the BROWN bridge section and add in the PINK areas.
They both have the same curve length. The first has the advantage of moving trains off the mainline faster, but at the expense of blocking the other. I'd go with the second as being more elegant.
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Dj Duck »

Sry for the big afk but i got dragged downtown for a lot of beers

but yeah think i'll go for the second one there
its just damn hard to get less jams there and i need even more trains to that station so its gonna be a big headache later

as for what is needed.. well i would say: less jams and more speed through this junction and to the station

putting a savegame in here:
Duck & Co., 5. mar 2044.sav
(166.4 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
oh and its atm r17879

also im looking for someone that has the power to make this map bigger ??? anyone ??
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by audigex »

It's not perfect (a rework of the whole area would improve on this a lot more) but here's an attempt at improving it without too many major changes.

Two things to note:
1) I may have removed whole routes from the junction. I think I replaced what I deleted, but there was a point where I removed about 5 lines.
2) Some of the bridges aren't tubular.

Basically I just added two platforms for trains coming from the left (which can also use a 3rd, shared) and gave trains from the right a dedicated platform (and they can also share one)

All the other platforms are shared between the main route in, which has a little loadbalancing. Some trains will stop, but they generally won't wait if there are any platforms free. It seems to work fairly well, but you'll need to improve the throat and add platforms to get much more capacity into it. Once the station is full it doesn't matter how efficient the entrance is, you can't get any more trains in.
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Dj Duck »

yeah i must say that what you've done seems to have made a major change in the flow

it seems that my biggest problem is the calculation to get the right number of platforms needed for the number of trains! and the space needed to widen the station and get a better exit

im starting to think that a new station might be needed for the food and cargo trains to spread the density
Could that help perhaps ?? or is it just plain stupid ??
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by petert »

Dj Duck wrote:im starting to think that a new station might be needed for the food and cargo trains to spread the density
Could that help perhaps ?? or is it just plain stupid ??
Yes, in most coop games, there are multiple platforms to spread traffic.
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by audigex »

You don't necessarily have to create a whole new station, just add platforms to the current one, but arrange the track so that ones from different directions don't mix.

The fewer paths into the station throat you have, the less it will jam. Your problem before was that if you have 5 entry lines and 15 platforms, a train going from the leftmost entry to the rightmost platform will block the whole station for a moment. My modification basically means that no train can block more than 4 platforms, which is usually a good number to aim for, since one train will normally be leaving as another arrives, under heavy flow.
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Lord Aro »

it doesnt seem to have been said already so - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org
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Dj Duck
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Dj Duck »

haven't seen that side yet TY always good to get more ideas

i might start the whole lvl over again and go for a better station layout as well as the junction.. the most difficult part is that space is limited which makes it harder to avoid the bottlenecks!
but hey im use to start over to make it all better :lol: thats the funy part of the game right ? :P
the building and planning i mean :P
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Re: Need some help optimizing junction and station

Post by Martin Hronec »

Dj Duck wrote: 06 Nov 2009 15:22 Hi there

im looking for some advice on how to optimize my junction and station in the map "Custerville"
Big picture.png

1st How to get more/better flow to the station ??
Station.png

2nd: How do i get more speed out of this "little space" junction ?
Junction.png

my main problem is that jams do occure cause of the slow entrance to the station, and when that happens a whole bunch of trains gets cought
im playing r17879
if a save is needed pls let me know as 3 attachements is the maximum :lol:

Oh and if anyone is in the mood then im looking for someone that could enlarge "Custerville" to a bigger map! would be greatly appreciated
Attachments
Screenshot_20210106_131643_org.openttd.sdl.jpg
(2.2 MiB) Not downloaded yet
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