WebTranslator 3.0

[TrueBrain]

As some of you might know, for a long time we have been planning and working on a replacement for WebTranslator 2. Although MiHaMiX did a fine job, it was time for something new. We wrote down a list of requirements, and started to work. After many weeks of on-and-off development, this week we finally finished the first version of this new system. We call it, surprise surprise: WebTranslator 3.0.

What is new?
Well, what isn't. It is rewritten from scratch, with a completely different approach. Stability was one of the main points, usability one of the other main points. The result, a fast, simple, elegant, intuitive interface, build on a simple API which allows 3rd party applications (both web as standalone).


That sounds cool; now what?
Yesterday the French translator team started to use WT3.0. The initial responses are promising. Today was the first automated commit, which went almost without a hitch. We invited a select group of other teams to start using WT3.0, and in the next few days we hope to iron out the final bugs and problems.


Show me this WT3.0!
Everyone has read-only access to all languages of WT3.0. In the future this will be extended to allow all users to give suggestions to translators. Never will non-authorized people be allowed to make any real changes. But for read-only access, all you need to do is go here:

http://translator.openttd.org/

And click Edit. If you don't have a openttd.org account yet, you can just create one. You will have to sign a simple ToS, and of you go.
NOTE: your old WT2 account won't work in WT3.0. Your BaNaNaS account, if you have one, will. Slowly we are merging all user-databases to a single one, this being the next step.


What? I need JavaScript?
The 'default' frontend to WT3.0 uses JavaScript (AJAX, REST, XMLRPC, ...), so you need a browser which support that. All modern browsers do, and WT3.0 works on most browsers I could test it on (including IE, FireFox, Opera, Konquerer, Safari, ...). But yes, you do need to enable JavaScript. If you don't like this requirement, write a better version without it. The API is public, and you are free to build your own tool. After all, we are an Open Source Community.


I want to use WT3.0 too!
Slowly we will be switching all languages, one by one, from WT2 to WT3.0. Once switched, you can't go back. It is either the whole language, or not (so you can't have one translator working in WT2, the other in WT3.0). This will mostly be done on our invite. For example, we need languages to test cases, genders, plurals, rtl, ... If you think your language is special enough, or just want to be part of the fun, feel free to drop me an email (see Contact page on http://www.openttd.org for details). Make sure you have your whole team behind you.


Next versions?
WT3.0 is the first version of hopefully a few more to come. Because of time-restraints development won't be fast, but here are a few things that will be added in the future:

* Ability to save settings (for now, ask Rubidium)
* Wordlist (suggestion-list of words)
* General user suggestion tool (where non-translators can suggest translations, or point out mistakes)
* Small translation forum for inter-translation communication
* Faster import
* Better history tracking
* Import/export of diffs, .txt and .lngs


I have a great idea for WT3.N!
If you allow me to dismiss your idea, you are absolutely free to send me your idea.


I found a bug!
Let me know ASAP. Be clear, specific and unambiguous. Include links (noticee the permalink in WT3.0), tell me what you are doing, how you were doing it, and why. Bugs like: "it doens't work!", will be discarded. You can post your bug either here, or maybe more findable, here:

http://bugs.openttd.org/newtask/proj4

Make sure to select the category WT3!


I want to write my own FrontEnd!
By all means, feel free! The API is documented here:

http://translator.openttd.org/en/api

Any questions related to it, can be asked directly to me. Just know that I am a busy man.


I have a question
This is the place.


I hope you all enjoy this new addition, and hopefully it would increase your productivity when translation for OpenTTD. Thank you all for your ongoing effort in translating OpenTTD in as many languages as possible. We are over the 50 languages already!


With kind regards,

Patric 'TrueBrain' Stout
SysOp OpenTTD / Developer WT3

[cmoiromain]

Hi

I just tried to have a look at the read only link you posted (my language is French, that's perfect for me to try out!) but the link doesn't seem to work: the website tells me to apply as an official translator (which I don't have time for at the moment).

EDIT: woops, sorry, I didn't see the top menu and stupidly clicked the "click here" link on the page. Now I can indeed see the thing. But it seems a little empty to me: all I can access is the status page, telling me the percentage of completion for each language (which is something I don't particularly care about to be honnest), but no the strings themselves. Is it me doing something wrong again, or the website not yet perfectly in place?

[TrueBrain]

Euh .. which page are you visiting? It sounds like you are accessing WT2... please confirm you use the url above and you see a page in openttd.org theme ...

[Roujin]

I think I know what you mean, at first I also thought "Huh? This is all I can see as read-only user?", but then I found the mentioned Terms you have to agree to, after you do, you will be granted proper read access.


Well, congratulations!

I haven't been part of the german translation team in WT2 (only contributed some translations for already done, but imo borked translations in the forum thread we have somewhere here), but I'd like to join in when german gets switched over to WT3.


OT: If you allow me..

I have a great idea for WT3.N!
If you allow me to dismiss your idea, you are absolutely free to send me your idea.

For me as a non-native english speaker, this sounded a bit like you'll dismiss any idea that you'll be sent via mail.


edit: I found a bug. Is there a WT3 category on flyspray? *checking* nope, only for WT2.. hm, I'll post it here for the moment.
* click on "Edit" tab
* select any language and any category (e.g. "all") that has enough (I guess two will do) items.
* click "Next" so that you're viewing the second string (assuming you start with the first string, if not click "First" first)
* click "List" -> list that displays items 1-10
* click "Current" -> list will display items 2-11
* the button "Prev" is not disabled, so click it and the list will display items -8 through 1. Actually it displays 1 through 10, but the header will say "List - -8-1 of xxxx strings."

[TrueBrain]

I think I know what you mean, at first I also thought "Huh? This is all I can see as read-only user?", but then I found the mentioned Terms you have to agree to, after you do, you will be granted proper read access.

How ever clear you try to say something, people are lazy and don't read But I am happy you did find it

Well, congratulations!

Tnx!!

edit: I found a bug. Is there a WT3 category on flyspray? *checking* nope, only for WT2.. hm, I'll post it here for the moment.

Updated the post to show where on FS you can post bugs. Here is fine too

* click on "Edit" tab
* select any language and any category (e.g. "all") that has enough (I guess two will do) items.
* click "Next" so that you're viewing the second string (assuming you start with the first string, if not click "First" first)
* click "List" -> list that displays items 1-10
* click "Current" -> list will display items 2-11
* the button "Prev" is not disabled, so click it and the list will display items -8 through 1. Actually it displays 1 through 10, but the header will say "List - -8-1 of xxxx strings."

You are absolutely right Somehow I already knew about this, but never found an easy way to make it happen ... it is fixed now Thank you for the report!

[Roujin]

How ever clear you try to say something, people are lazy and don't read But I am happy you did find it

I think the problem was that it said "Apply as translator" or somthing similar, and I thought that this is only for those that want more than read-access. And I only wanted read access for now.
It was only one minute though until I reconsidered.

[Terkhen]

The new system looks great. I'm looking forward to report some mistakes and suggestions for the spanish translation when that feature is implemented

[vesgo]

The new system really looks great, and its very intuitive indeed. I would also be glad to hear if there's a Portuguese Translation team (not brazilian portuguese), and if i could join too, since sometimes the strings take a while before they get translated. Thank you!
Nice job for the WT3 guys!

[TrueBrain]

The new system really looks great, and its very intuitive indeed. I would also be glad to hear if there's a Portuguese Translation team (not brazilian portuguese), and if i could join too, since sometimes the strings take a while before they get translated. Thank you!
Nice job for the WT3 guys!

Nice to hear you like it Always makes us smile

If you would like to help out translating (and not doing so already), please email the Translations Manager (see http://www.openttd.org/contact). They will help you out if there is need for additional manpower for the Portuguese language, by either making an account on WT2, or moving the language to WT3 and granting you access.

[vesgo]

TrueBrain, thank you for your fast reply and answer to my question!
I already sent an e-mail to the translator support like u said, and now im waiting for an answer.
If it is positive, ok, great, and i will try to do my best, but if not, no problem there, since i will get to play this great game anyway, allways checking for nice features that u guys give to us for pleasure!

For your and the other devs work, my best regards!

Keep up the good work!

[Roujin]

[...]
* General user suggestion tool (where non-translators can suggest translations, or point out mistakes)
[...]

Is this feature already implemented? I see four items in "Strings Needing Validation" with a note Marked by user. Is this some kind of the feature mentioned above, or something else?

[TrueBrain]

[...]
* General user suggestion tool (where non-translators can suggest translations, or point out mistakes)
[...]

Is this feature already implemented? I see four items in "Strings Needing Validation" with a note Marked by user. Is this some kind of the feature mentioned above, or something else?

Something else. (triggered when pressing 'Mark', but that will change soon anyway).

[Roujin]

Aha, is this marking only for yourself, or shared with the other translators of a language?

[TrueBrain]

Aha, is this marking only for yourself, or shared with the other translators of a language?

Shared, for now.

[Roujin]

Thanks for the info.

I have another issue:

regarding the string STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DRAG_SIGNALS_DENSITY
In english:

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING} tile(s)

In german, the sentence would sound weird with the "when dragging" part before the changable number. It belongs at the end of the sentence, and thus the current translation is:

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Errichte Signale alle {ORANGE}{STRING} Felder beim Ziehen mit der Maus

(in english that's "build signals every {...} tiles when dragging with the mouse" word-by-word)
However, not only the number is highlighted in orange color, but also the rest of the sentence, which is bad(TM). I just tried to change it to

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Errichte Signale alle {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} Felder beim Ziehen mit der Maus

, but the webtranslator won't let me. It aborts saving the string with the message "Too many {LTBLUE} commands".


If you are concerned about the changable value in the middle of the sentence, we already have a setting that does it like this:
STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DATE_FORMAT_IN_SAVE_NAMES

Code: Select all

English: {LTBLUE}Use the {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} date format for savegame names.
German: {LTBLUE}Verwende {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} Datumsformat in Namen der Spielstände

(hmm, good I just posted this, the german translation is missing a full stop.)

---
To summarize, I'd like that restriction to be loosened, I understand of course that the {STRING} and similar tags should always be enforced, but for colors, it should be possible for the translation to use something different (at least in the way I posted it) than english without the world ending, don't you think?

[DaleStan]

In english:

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING} tile(s)

In german, I just tried to change it to

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Errichte Signale alle {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} Felder beim Ziehen mit der Maus

, but the webtranslator won't let me.

Note that in the English, "tile(s)" is also in orange. I suspect that's a bug. Even if it's not,

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING} tile(s){LTBLUE}

would evade the problem.

[Roujin]

[...]
Note that in the English, "tile(s)" is also in orange. I suspect that's a bug. Even if it's not,

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING} tile(s){LTBLUE}

would evade the problem.

True, if the english string were changed to

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} tile(s)

or even

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {ORANGE}{STRING} tile(s){LTBLUE}

, it would solve my dilemma in this particular case, but what if some other translator for some other language decides to handle some other string in the advanced settings window like this (using the value in the middle of the sentence, in contrast to the english string)?
Should all english strings in the advanced settings window have such a precautionary {LTBLUE} at the end, to ensure any other language can use the value in the middle of the sentence? I think that's not the way to go
I'd rather like to see this limitation removed. Granted, right now it's handy because it requires translators to use the intended colors, but I think you can trust translators enough to use the intended colors anyway

The question is, is it only a limitation of WebTranslator3, or does the game need exactly the same number of {SOMECOLOR} tags in a string for all languages for some reason?

[TrueBrain]

I'd rather like to see this limitation removed.

It is not a limitation, it is a consistency check.

Granted, right now it's handy because it requires translators to use the intended colors, but I think you can trust translators enough to use the intended colors anyway

If that only was true .. but it is not

First off: I understand your problem, and in the ideal world, it would be a solution.

That said: on all the strings we have in the translation now, no string requires what you request. There are a few failing validations because they tried something similar, but with wrong colours or what ever. As there is no real way to separate those from yours, I think it would be a bad idea. That is, it would introduce more problems than solutions. So .. we either need to change the english string, or something clever ... will think about it.

[DaleStan]

Another option, then, is something like

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}When dragging, place signals every: {STRING:ORANGE} tile(s)

which could be implemented either by having strgen expand "{STRING:ORANGE}" to "{ORANGE}{STRING}{<scan backwards for previous bare color code>}", or by adding a new string code that OpenTTD interprets as "print the following entity in $COLOR".

Or several other solutions.

[Roujin]

I understand your concerns.

something clever

Closing tags, maybe? {/ORANGE}
They could be optional, with

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Some fancy string that also has {ORANGE}some orange

behaving the same as

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Some fancy string that also has {ORANGE}some orange{/ORANGE}{/LTBLUE}

Then a weird language(TM) could do the following:

Code: Select all

{LTBLUE}Chotto hen-na gengo, bei der {ORANGE}some orange{/ORANGE} est placée au milieu.

apologies if anything, especially the french part, is horribly wrong