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Iron Horse "Quicksilver" Add-On

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 18:33
by SimYouLater
With Pikkabird's blessing, I will be posting the source code here.

Meant to be used with the Iron Horse set, which does not and will not have a streamlined train of it's own.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW!
acs121 wrote:
PikkaBird wrote:
SimYouLater wrote:if Pikkabird is willing to lend me their sprites from UKRS1 I'd gladly edit them for you.
Andy has access to the UKRS2 sprites, and anyone else is welcome to modify them too. But I think you'd be better off starting from scratch, and trying to match the style of the existing IH big locos.
acs121 wrote:UK actually had a lot of streamliners
Ten LMS Coronations; two LNER B17s, six P2s and 35 A4s; 30 SR Merchant Navies and 110 Light Pacifics. And a few oddities like the W1 and GWR 6014.

Notable takeaways: more than 2/3rds of British streamliners were Bulleid's "air-smoothed" Pacifics, and only a dozen weren't either Bulleid or Gresley designs. On the other hand, the Gresley A4s were the only class that weren't substantially rebuilt to remove their casings later in life. So a "representative" streamliner really has to be based on either the A4 or the Bulleid Pacifics.
acs121 wrote:Typical british steam locomotives other than the streamliners would be the Gresley A3, the Stanier Crab or the 8P.
There's the voice of someone who learned all he knows from Transport Tycoon. ;)
Counting all streamliners you cited, it's 160 streamliners in total.
The PLM only had 6 streamliners. That's not very much for a country that is three times bigger than Great Britain.

For the british steamers, i don't know much, i could have cited the Tram Engine from UKRS2 though.
Access to UKRS2, but I was thinking UKRS1... I was thinking of combining the A4 and Wardale 604 graphics, but I guess you feel they're not a good fit for this set? At the very least, it would be nice if I could combine it with UKRS1 and not have alignment issues.

Re: "Iron Horse" - A modular train set based slightly in reality

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 19:09
by acs121
SimYouLater wrote:
acs121 wrote:
PikkaBird wrote: Andy has access to the UKRS2 sprites, and anyone else is welcome to modify them too. But I think you'd be better off starting from scratch, and trying to match the style of the existing IH big locos.


Ten LMS Coronations; two LNER B17s, six P2s and 35 A4s; 30 SR Merchant Navies and 110 Light Pacifics. And a few oddities like the W1 and GWR 6014.

Notable takeaways: more than 2/3rds of British streamliners were Bulleid's "air-smoothed" Pacifics, and only a dozen weren't either Bulleid or Gresley designs. On the other hand, the Gresley A4s were the only class that weren't substantially rebuilt to remove their casings later in life. So a "representative" streamliner really has to be based on either the A4 or the Bulleid Pacifics.


There's the voice of someone who learned all he knows from Transport Tycoon. ;)
Counting all streamliners you cited, it's 160 streamliners in total.
The PLM only had 6 streamliners. That's not very much for a country that is three times bigger than Great Britain.

For the british steamers, i don't know much, i could have cited the Tram Engine from UKRS2 though.
Access to UKRS2... I was thinking of combining the A4 and Wardale 604 graphics, but I guess you feel they're not a good fit for this set? At the very least, it would be nice if I could combine it with UKRS1 and not have alignment issues.
You can simply use GRFWizard to have the sprites directly though. IIRC UKRS is GPL v2 (maybe higher), so you just need to cite Pikka for the graphics.

Re: "Iron Horse" - A modular train set based slightly in reality

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 19:42
by Gwyd
Check your license! All UKRS's'ss are released with all rights reserved

Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 19:47
by SimYouLater
Gwyd wrote:Check your license! All UKRS's'ss are released with all rights reserved
How does All Rights Reserved work?

Re: "Iron Horse" - A modular train set based slightly in reality

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 19:54
by Gwyd
Basically, Pikka reserves all rights to modify, redistribute etc his software.

Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 19:58
by acs121
Gwyd wrote:Basically, Pikka reserves all rights to modify, redistribute etc his software.
Then you just need to cite him.

Re: Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:04
by andythenorth
Please don't make guesses at licenses. It can cause boring forum dramas. It's easy to check the facts.
UKRS2-license.png
UKRS2-license.png (150.56 KiB) Viewed 3583 times
acs121 wrote:Then you just need to cite him.
No that's quite wrong. Please don't spread this misinformation. :roll:

"All rights reserved" means that nobody can use Pikka's sprites without express permission.

Usually, if people ask nicely, Pikka will give permission. But Pikka can also speak for himself on this. ;)
SimYouLater wrote:I was thinking of combining the A4 and Wardale 604 graphics, but I guess you feel they're not a good fit for this set? At the very least, it would be nice if I could combine it with UKRS1 and not have alignment issues.
I won't include streamliners in UK Horse. It would be a nice grf to make for yourself though. It's fun to make your own things :)

Re: "Iron Horse" - A modular train set based slightly in reality

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:20
by Gwyd
All rights reserved means that without express written consent it is not allowed to use the copyrighted material in any way, this includes adaptation for personal use
Keep up, Gwyd

Re: Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:38
by SimYouLater
acs121 wrote:
Gwyd wrote:Basically, Pikka reserves all rights to modify, redistribute etc his software.
Then you just need to cite him.
I want to be absolutely sure I'm doing this right. I've just done up the sprites (easy when most of the work is already done) for what I'm calling "Silver Streak", but I need to know Pikkabird is going to be okay with it before I post the sprites here.

Gwyd, is acs121 right about citations? I cited him with a "Credits to Pikkabird" on the sprite sheet.

Re: "Iron Horse" - A modular train set based slightly in reality

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:39
by Gwyd
ACS is completely wrong. It could be considered you breaking the law of you posted it! I'd go check with pikka if he's happy or not.

Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:49
by SimYouLater
Gwyd wrote:ACS is completely wrong. It could be considered you breaking the law of you posted it! I'd go check with pikka if he's happy or not.
Don't worry, I haven't posted it anywhere. Thanks for letting me know, though. I've PM'd Pikkabird with a copy of the graphics, but they will not be put anywhere else on the forum.

Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 23:07
by acs121
Gwyd wrote:ACS is completely wrong. It could be considered you breaking the law of you posted it! I'd go check with pikka if he's happy or not.
Somewhat i'm not completely wrong. You NEED to cite the original author of the graphics. It is an obligation.

Re: Re:

Posted: 24 Apr 2018 23:13
by Erato
acs121 wrote:
Gwyd wrote:ACS is completely wrong. It could be considered you breaking the law of you posted it! I'd go check with pikka if he's happy or not.
Somewhat i'm not completely wrong. You NEED to cite the original author of the graphics. It is an obligation.
If I, the copyright holder give you express written consent to publish without giving credit, then you don't have to give credit. The copyright holder can demand anything in order to allow you to use their work. This does not have to include giving credit.

Re: Iron Horse license chatter

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 00:16
by Dave
I’m really not best pleased about this discussion for reasons discussed in the IH thread, and will be drawing Pikka’s attention to it.

If you have a query about the conditions under which Pikka has granted you permission to use his sprites, you should speak to him privately.

Re: Iron Horse license chatter

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 02:02
by SimYouLater
Dave wrote:I’m really not best pleased about this discussion for reasons discussed in the IH thread, and will be drawing Pikka’s attention to it.

If you have a query about the conditions under which Pikka has granted you permission to use his sprites, you should speak to him privately.
I absolutely, positively did not post the edited graphics anywhere, and have PM'd Pikkabird about whether he is okay with my altered sprites before doing anything more than discuss the graphics I made.

I respect licenses, even though I have pointed out in the past that I don't like them. Please don't throw a fit over rules when no rules have been broken, again the graphics are only on my computer and in the PM I sent to Pikkabird, no one else has access to a copy and it will stay that unless and until Pikkabird gives the okay.

Re: Iron Horse license chatter

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 02:28
by wallyweb
Funny thing about licenses ... We tend to forget about copyright which rests with the originator until his/her dying day, unless s/he transfers the copyright to another party. Barring transfer, the originator grants a privilege that is set out in a license. Always read the license. It might not be what you think it is. On a related note, GPL does not require attribution, but it does encourage it, and irregardless, it is a simple matter of common courtesy to cite attribution. The originator will appreciate the recognition and the knowledge that somebody else is sufficiently impressed with the originator's works that s/he would themselves like to work with it. 8)

Re: Iron Horse license chatter

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 06:17
by PikkaBird
I'm generally happy for anyone to use my older graphics as a base for their own OpenTTD sprite work. This includes UKRS1 and 2, NARS2 and Av8. NARS2 contains a lot of work from DanMacK, who has given similar general permission in the past. UKRS1 may contain elements from the original TTD sprites - how you deal with that is up to you.

I generally avoid legalese licences like GPL because, honestly, no-one's suing anyone over OpenTTD sprites, and as this thread aptly demonstrates most community members don't understand them anyway. For such a small community as ours, implied licencing and open discussion is fine. But I know a lot of people find GPL a convenient default, so including sprites or code derived from mine in GPL sets is fine.

Re: Iron Horse "Silver Streak" Add-On

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 18:20
by SimYouLater
Anyone up for coding it?

Re: Iron Horse "Silver Streak" Add-On

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 18:31
by Gwyd
SimYouLater wrote:Anyone up for coding it?
Don't see why not, shouldn't be too hard. Although I don't have much time at the moment: it'll be slow.

Re: Iron Horse "Silver Streak" Add-On

Posted: 25 Apr 2018 18:53
by SimYouLater
Gwyd wrote:
SimYouLater wrote:Anyone up for coding it?
Don't see why not, shouldn't be too hard. Although I don't have much time at the moment: it'll be slow.
Fair enough. I'm looking into it myself but I'm not seeing anything useful in the NML Tutorial.