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 Post subject: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:30 am 
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As a map maker, I noticed lack of comprehensive Central and East European train set.
There are some national sets, but they doesn't mix well (different prices ruin game balance).
On the other hand, famous Train of the World in 2cc is too heavy overall, but too sparse if certain region is chosen.
Therefore I decided to make train set depicting railways of Visegrad Group, therefore I named it V4.
My plan was to fork 2cct, delete unwanted exotic stuff, add some new locomotives and tweak some parameters.
Half of my plan is already done: I deleted lot of stuff from 2cct fork ;)
During documentation survey I decided to add more countries: not only Chechia, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary, but also Austria, former Yugoslavia, Romania, West part of Soviet Union and East part of Germany,
because lot of rolling stock appear to be common for these countries (and one new map would utilise such set).

Teaser of this set is available on http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/v4-train-set/ files section,
as well as sources on GPL2 licence.
User can choose countries, similar as it was for regions in case of 2cct (however some locomotives are inherited, for example if only Hungary is chosen, RZD M62 will be still available).
Currently set is not playable if a single country is chosen, due to lack of locomotives.
Tracking table of implemented and planned locomotives is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
(black: existing, red: planned)

    TODO list:
  • add more locomotives and multiple units, according to above mentioned table (artist support needed)
  • make clean-up with locomotive names, add description of all national classes
  • add refit option/colour table for national liveries
  • repaint some locomotives to generate more appropriate liveries
  • swap flag to depict stock producer/constructor rather than national railroad, which is fuzzy thing
  • tweak some cost factors (partially done, 2cct nml code is very convenient to mockup such settings)
  • add more freight wagon classes, for example separate reefers
  • add track types (different speeds, normal and broad gauge)
  • add more passenger wagon classes, for example luggage/passenger vans.

Not planned: add all locomotives ever existed in these countries. There was thousands of types. I want to keep this set playable, not realistic.

Many thanks and all credits go to creators of Trains in 2cc and Trains 2cc in NML sets, which are real parents of my child :)
I apologise for my poor English language.

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Traffic Manager
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Nice idea!
If you need any info about Soviet rolling stock just look at xUSSR Set tracking table (.xls file). If you find it hard to use, just tell me time gap and role you need. :wink:
Also, years ago I've made similar table for East German DR. Added it below.


Attachments:
File comment: Tracking table. Most of it translated, but not all. All photographies removed.
DRset-eng-np.xls [72 KiB]
Downloaded 32 times

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Simozzz wrote:
If you need any info about Soviet rolling stock just look at xUSSR Set tracking table (.xls file).

Thank you for reminding me this file, usually it is hard to research crucial data such traction force or power and this spreadsheet fills such knowledge gaps (is cyrillic abbr. l.s. == hp?). Also DR table is very useful, especially number of produced pieces to choose which were most popular ones.
BTW, I seek some more information about American locomotives https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... %B7_%D0%A5 and https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... %B7_%D0%92 which were used in Russia - in which regions were they used? Far East only?

I'm now considering to split rolling stock into two groups: broad gauge and normal gauge (and some universal also).
There are already wagons of Type 1 resembling European ones and Type 2, which looks like Russian/American.
I want to provide optional railtypes, broad and normal ones, with different speeds/costs, therefore player would have opportunity to choose if he want to stick with broad gauge, which would be slower but offer higher stock capacity, or faster normal gauge with smaller vans.

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Quote:
is cyrillic abbr. l.s. == hp?

Exactly. Please note that these numbers are power "on rails" (conuts loss of power in transmisson). Not engine power used in most openttd sets. That means it should be increased in most cases.

Quote:
BTW, I seek some more information about American locomotives https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... %B7_%D0%A5 and https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0 ... %B7_%D0%92 which were used in Russia - in which regions were they used? Far East only?

H (паровоз Х) were ordered by and used at Vladikavkaz Railway (later merged with Notrhern Caucasus Railway), Moscow-Vindavo-Rybinsk Railroad, Eastern-Chinise Railroad and South-Eastern Railway (despite it's name it is to the north form Notrhern Caucasus Railway and borders Ukraine). Only surviving locomotive of this type were found in swamp after it crashed there in 1910's is on exhibition at "Museum of the Imperial Palace of the Manchu State", China.
V (паровоз В) was ordered by South-Eastern Railway and later by warious Moscow railways. There isn't much info about that type of locomotive.
Both locomotives had Vauclain compound and used oid as fuel. Because of that they were either retired or completly rebuilt at 1920's.

So both of them were used at south-western part of Russian Empire/Soviet Union with some of H type used at Far East.
And I made H type yesterday for xUSSRset. Not sure if it will fit 2CC style locos, but you can use it if you want (under GPL2).

If you are looking for American locomotives, try 2-10-0 E series (паровоз Е). There is simillar 0-10-0 E series (паровоз Э) which is already in set.

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Simozzz wrote:
If you are looking for American locomotives, try 2-10-0 E series
I was looking for something which was used in west part of Russian Empire and is similar to existing 2cc sprites such consolidation or ten-wheller :)
I think there is lack of FD20 and maybe Su in my set to fill gap between 1st and 2nd WW.

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Nice idea. For the ÖBB 2016, you could probably aim for the MTR 8000 (China) sprites from the 2cc train set. That is literally the same locomotive.

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:06 am 
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Currently I'm repainting/reorganising freight wagons and one terminology question arises: what is a proper name of box car with grain loading/unloading holes on the top roof/bottom of doors?
Not a hopper for bulk cargo, regular box van which can be used for piece goods as well as for pourable bulk?
Something like: http://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/54- ... -Nrxf7cV/A

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Quote:
what is a proper name of box car with grain loading/unloading holes

Here it called "Крытый вагон" - literally "covered wagon". But when it comes to translating no one calls it that way. Boxcar used instead.
Quote:
I think there is lack of FD20 and maybe Su in my set to fill gap between 1st and 2nd WW.

Maybe this one?

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:33 pm 
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I would like to add refit option for general national cargo wagon liveries, but I need some help to complete following data:
Austrian: grey until 1918, brown, currently grey? (from which year?)
German DRG/DR/DB: brown, now reddish/brown (from which year)?
CSD: brown, CD: brown? ZSSK: not sure if blue or gray, from which year?
ex-Yugoslavia: brown?
MAV: only red?
CFR: brown?
SZD/RZD: brown/green?

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:58 am 
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McZapkie wrote:
MAV: only red?

Yep, mostly red, shorter tanker wagons are more varied, grey, white, simply unpainted stainless steel, or soemtimes red with a black stripe, longer ones are primarily white with a horizontal stripe.
Other wagons are almost always red, sometimes bright, orange-ish red, except conatiner wagons, those are blue.
I think there aren't more standard colours. Of course, exceptions always will be :)

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Is it possible to redefine colour mapping with use of livery_override?
I wan to define different liveries of locomotives and adjust cars livery mapping accordingly.

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 am 
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McZapkie wrote:
[freight car liveries]
Austrian: grey until 1918, brown, currently grey? (from which year?)
German DRG/DR/DB: brown, now reddish/brown (from which year)?

Austria:
Open wagons were in "iron grey" (RAL 7011), box cars in "red brown" (RAL 8012) livery until 1953 (kkstb and BBÖ era), then "mahogany brown" (RAL 8016). Iron ore cars have always been in RAL 8016. Silo cars are in "mouse grey" (RAL 7005).

Germany:
In pre-DRG era (Länderbahnen) box cars were in different colours, mostly grey or green.
In DRG times (1921-1949), box cars were in "red brown" (RAL-13 -> RAL 8013), since 1935 in RAL-13a (-> RAL 8012), with roofs in "green grey" (RAL 7009), since 1941 in "black grey" (RAL 7021). Reefers were in "grey white" (RAL 9002), since 1940 in "concrete grey" (RAL 7023). Tank cars were either "black" or "iron grey", depending on cargo.

In DB times not much has been changed at first. Silo cars got "iron grey" (RAL 7011), and tank cars for milk got a white livery. Since 1953 tank cars for pressurized gas got a coloured horizontal stripe, first in "yellow" (RAL 1007?), since 1965 in "golden yellow" (RAL 1004), since 1971 in "pastel orange" (RAL 2003).

Since 1965, liveries for reefers, tankers and silo cars had been changed to "pebble grey" (RAL 7032). Tank cars for "light" cargo (gasoline, benzene, etc) got a "stone grey" (RAL 7030) livery. Since 1977 livery for flat cars had been changed from "black" (RAL 9005) to "red brown" (RAL 8012) as well.

Since 1997, the official livery for DB cargo / Schenker freight cars is "traffic red" (RAL 3020)

HTH
Michael

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:01 pm 
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McZapkie wrote:
Is it possible to redefine colour mapping with use of livery_override?
I wan to define different liveries of locomotives and adjust cars livery mapping accordingly.

You can have:
Code:
default: swich_TRAIN_livery_lo
in the livery override block and have the switch manage the livery based on cargo_subtype of the PARENT

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Quote:
SZD/RZD: brown/green?

Depends on type of cargo. You may look at colours used in xUSSRset (with RAL-codes).

Shortly:
Boxcars usually brown/brownish-red, rarely green. Same for gondolas and covered hoppers. Refrigirators are white/light-gray. Livestock car - green. Tankers usually painted in pale brown for various cargoes, brown for crude oil, yellow for refined products, light-grey for bulk cargo, with double red stripes for food, with wide single stripe for chemicals (colours depends on chemical).
In modern times there is no regulation on colours, so they any may be used. That wasn't short, was it? :lol:

Also some rare wagons:
Flatbed for steel sheets
Covered hopper/boxcar combo for clay/aluminium ignots
Spent nuclear fuel wagon

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Thanks for all replies. Freight cars are almost ready, but I have still question about passenger and mail coaches:
1. when MAV blue/white livery appeared?
2. are MAV post coaches blue with red stripe or green with red stripe? How they were painted before blue/white era?
3. when was DR conversion from green to green/yellow passenger coaches?
4. were CSD post vans blue or green?

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:54 pm 
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McZapkie wrote:
3. when was DR conversion from green to green/yellow passenger coaches?

East German Reichsbahn? 1981. But only international traffic. Local and regional traffic remained green.

regards
Michael

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:37 am 
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Hello

michael blunck wrote:
McZapkie wrote:
3. when was DR conversion from green to green/yellow passenger coaches?

East German Reichsbahn? 1981. But only international traffic. Local and regional traffic remained green.

No, the colour scheme was also in use for national traffic (i.e. orange was the colour for "Städteexpress" (inter city traffic)), but in first place only for new waggons. Old waggons got no new colour for a long time (until next revision?).

Tschö, Auge

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:31 am 
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Auge wrote:
mb wrote:
East German Reichsbahn? 1981. But only international traffic. Local and regional traffic remained green.

No, the colour scheme was also in use for national traffic (i.e. orange was the colour for "Städteexpress" (inter city traffic)), but in first place only for new waggons. Old waggons got no new colour for a long time (until next revision?).

The cream/green livery was orginally meant for international traffic. Take e.g. the "Abteilwagen Typ B", first built in 1962. This one had been based on the shorter UIC-X type (24.5m). In addition, it was prepared for Russian broad gauge. VEB Waggonbau Bautzen built 18 first class coaches (A4ge), 32 mixed-class coaches (AB4ge), and 69 second class coaches (B4ge). In addition, there were 32 couchette cars (Bc4üe), all allowed for 140 km/h.

At that time, original livery was the usual green with grey roofs. Livery changed when in 1981 the new cream/green livery was introduced. All coaches went into high-valued international long-distance service. Only in later years, these coaches entered low-valued services (w/o changing the livery). Some of them had even taken over by DB (Bauart A504.1, AB508.1, and B17), and only set aside just before year 2000.

Same holds for the "Typ Y" coaches from 1969, and the "Y/B 70" coaches of 1971/73, and even for "Grossraumwagen Gattung Bmh", built from 1978 (1279 items), which were originally planned for national service (in plain green), but were used instead for international traffic, in cream/green livery. After 1990, these coaches were reconstructed for regional traffic (AByu and Byu).

Even the "lange Halberstädter" coaches from 1983 were originally in plain green livery, and only when entering international services, they got that cream/green livery.

And yes, the coaches for "Städteexpress" (successor of "Städteschnellverkehr", connecting East-Berlin with the most important regional cities) were of Y/B 70 type, originally built for CSD. These were in cream/orange livery from the outset (1976).

regards
Michael

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:15 pm 
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McZapkie wrote:
Thanks for all replies. Freight cars are almost ready, but I have still question about passenger and mail coaches:
1. when MAV blue/white livery appeared?
2. are MAV post coaches blue with red stripe or green with red stripe? How they were painted before blue/white era?

1. Around the end of the USSR, 1990, before then the passenger wagons were simply blue (and before that, back in the steam age, they were black).
2. Before the striped liveries, they were all green. Then in 1984, got the blue with red stripe livery, then in '91 the new ones got the green with red stripe livery, the old ones stay blue-red. (all of them got obsolete in 2004, as the entire post service got trucks instead, but in-game they should stay available I think)

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 Post subject: Re: V4 CEE Train Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:32 pm 
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I released v. 6648 on bananas.
Some freight cars are repainted and reorganised, normal gauge freight cars have now brake boots and are 2-axle till 3/4 generation. Broad gauge cars are 4-axle (however gauge distinction is not yet implemented).
Locomotives can be refitted to some national liveries and wagons colours are adapting to livery of leading engine (except of some intercity coaches, they can be repainted individually).
Due to nml and gfx limitations, these liveries are not verbatim as real ones, just more or less similar.
Open cars for bulk cargo does not have 2cc option (because I'm using repainting for different bulk colours).

Edit: some livery examples, from top: epoche 1...2 - 2cc, CSD, kkStB, KPEV, MAV, CFR, epoche 4 - CSD, OBB, DR, MAV, CFR, JZ, epoche 6 - CD, OBB, DB, MAV, CFR, HZ
Attachment:
File comment: V4 CEE recolour
V4-recolour.png
V4-recolour.png [ 43.49 KiB | Viewed 1062 times ]

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Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension.


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