Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 07 Mar 2018 15:05

acs121 wrote: I'm having an issue with this road vehicle set.
When i put it in my GRF list, then start a new game, it replaces all default vehicles and so deletes them. It shows no error message.
This is intended behavior, the set disables default vehicles. Most NewGRF vehicle sets disable the default vehicles.

This set aims to be very generic and take the place of the default road vehicles, as well as add a few more that are similar in theme. The 4 generations of later diesel rigid trucks and buses for example, are very similar in properties as their counterparts in the base game or OGFX+RVs (though changing the parameters for capacity and cost will of course change this). As such there is really no point to have both these and the default vehicles in game. If you really need both, you can add OGFX+RVs as well.


No idea what the string issue is but for what it's worth, there are no French strings for this yet.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by acs121 » 07 Mar 2018 15:48

Then may i please translate ? :twisted:

Something else : it'd be better if you could use the TTD names : MPS, Manley-Morel, Yate, Witcombe, Perry...
And more, instead of having about 5 vehicle generations, we should have one generation about each 15 years, like eGRVTS. I can help for spriting some vehicles, and code them in NML if you want.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 07 Mar 2018 17:35

acs121 wrote:Then may i please translate ? :twisted:

Something else : it'd be better if you could use the TTD names : MPS, Manley-Morel, Yate, Witcombe, Perry...
And more, instead of having about 5 vehicle generations, we should have one generation about each 15 years, like eGRVTS. I can help for spriting some vehicles, and code them in NML if you want.
I do not want to use the original manufacturers, for various reasons, and rather prefer as other sets have done, to create my own set of names in a similar style, with occasionally similar inspiration. These names have some slight in-joke meaning to me and NRT (though it really spoils it to have to explain this..) just as the original names had special meaning to Chris Sawyer.

The trucks at least do have a generation about once every 15 years as is. There are currently 8 generations of steam/diesel trucks, 4 generations of trolley trucks, and 2 generations of dual-mode trucks, with three lengths and 8 types for each generation. For trams there are about 8 generations of electric trams, about 6 for steam/diesel, and a handful of steam, diesel, and electric industrial trams. As is, I feel the vehicle list for the set is already much too long.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by andythenorth » 07 Mar 2018 17:47

acs121 wrote:And more, instead of having about 5 vehicle generations, we should have one generation about each 15 years.
15 years is too frequent. It becomes very hard to provide a good spread of stats progression. I would strongly recommend against 15 years.

Generations lasting in the range 21-40 years are better.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by acs121 » 07 Mar 2018 19:17

andythenorth wrote:
acs121 wrote:And more, instead of having about 5 vehicle generations, we should have one generation about each 15 years.
15 years is too frequent. It becomes very hard to provide a good spread of stats progression. I would strongly recommend against 15 years.

Generations lasting in the range 21-40 years are better.
IRL, a road vehicle generation is about 15 years.
Also, the set doesn't lack any trucks. It mostly lacks buses : there's just 4 bus generations, there's no coach or similar, buses are amalgamed (standard buses seem to equivalent intericty, suburban and city buses) and much other flaws.

Also, that didn't answer my main question : may i translate for French and maybe Italian ?


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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by acs121 » 07 Mar 2018 22:18

Not RV, but train. I'm making a piece of bread, a little GRF to be short, to begin with soft stuff.
I am planning a RV set, it will be in 2cc, but that's for later.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 07 Mar 2018 22:52

acs121 wrote:
andythenorth wrote:
acs121 wrote:And more, instead of having about 5 vehicle generations, we should have one generation about each 15 years.
15 years is too frequent. It becomes very hard to provide a good spread of stats progression. I would strongly recommend against 15 years.

Generations lasting in the range 21-40 years are better.
IRL, a road vehicle generation is about 15 years.
Also, the set doesn't lack any trucks. It mostly lacks buses : there's just 4 bus generations, there's no coach or similar, buses are amalgamed (standard buses seem to equivalent intericty, suburban and city buses) and much other flaws.

Also, that didn't answer my main question : may i translate for French and maybe Italian ?

There are 8 generations of fossil fueled busses, only 4 for trolley busses. However, trolley busses tend to be fairly long lasting - a trolley bus from 1970 and 1985 would be fairly similar. Furthermore, if you pay attention to the grf you will notice there are some subtleties in the code that let each model 'evolve' a bid over it's life to simulate the gradual updates manufacturers would make between major developments. I was quite pleased and satisfied with this approach.

I can see a gameplay use for different types of buses, but in practice, buses are boring, and the current ones seem to fill out the various niches well enough, considering there are trams and trains available as well. I considered a late game mini-bus/collectivo for games with very small villages, but the regular rigid buses don't actually leave a need for one.

This set is intended to be a broad purpose set inspired by the default vehicles and providing an example of what NRT makes possible. There are a few basic expantions of scope informed but what I have seen as desirable inclusions to the 'basic' vehicles over my 22+ years of playing this game. This isn't 'all things to all people' or even 'all things to a few people' - it is 'basic things to most people'. I've added parameters to adjust the selection and properties so people can use it selectively to fill out perceived gaps in games using other RV sets.

For translations - I am not really seeking out translations yet. Most strings are just manufacturer names. Eventually this will probably be up for EINTS translations, but until then I am only going to bother putting in the ones I translate myself. If you disagree with the basic premise of the grf, your time may be better spent developing another one.

Best,

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by acs121 » 07 Mar 2018 23:23

I quite like (and even love) that concept of "refurbishing" vehicles over time, but the buses are the only flaw of this set, even if it is really fantastic, i'm just awaiting for NRT to be put on the rails to have this RV set in my games (which use JGR's patchpack, damn InfraSharing).
I know, buses seem boring but the proportion of truks compared to buses is really massive. I know, we need to have flatbeds, covered, etc, but even with this the proportion is still very big. It's like Iron Horse lacking electric locomotives - though Andy said this will be fixed in Iron Horse 2.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by andythenorth » 08 Mar 2018 07:26

acs121 wrote:the proportion of truks compared to buses is really massive. I know, we need to have flatbeds, covered, etc, but even with this the proportion is still very big
The proportion of trucks to buses should be at least 5:1, possibly as high as 10:1. Only 1 or 2 types of buses are required per generation. Depending on the cargos in the game, there might be 10 or more truck types per generation.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Diesel Power » 09 Jul 2018 20:53

Found a few small bugs.

First of all, none of the tractor units are taking any weight from the lead semi-trailer like they did in previous relieses. This means the RVs aren't gaining any tractive effort from being loaded, stunting performance.


Secondly, The "Keppler Hybrid Express Cargo LRV" is showing an incorrect sprite on one section when unloading (see screen shot). Not every tram shows this, I had 25 trams on this line and this is the only one the exibit this behavour. The 1st cc is red and the 2nd cc is dark blue.


Thirdly, Is the capacity on the "Kurokawa Electric parcels Tram" Correct? It seem a little high looking at the trams around it. If it is correct then it is VERY under powered. It gets nowhere near its top speed when loaded with a heavy cargo like food.


I love using this set, especially the Duel power RVs and the LRVs.


Keep up the great work!
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Lesarthois » 18 Jul 2018 16:05

I noticed a few bugs, related to tram age (I'm not sure I have the most up-to-date grf, but it should be pretty recent anyway).

Kaimuki 4H Hybrid Flatbed Train, Yarra "Wharfie" Hybrid Boxcar Train, Adelbretch 500 Hybrid Open Train all have a 255 years life expectancy.
I haven't seen any other vehicle of this set that have such a long life :D.
I suppose that availability and vehicle age have been mixed...
If if was corrected, then ignore this ^^
And just enjoy the fact that I love this set. It's very, very nice to have trolleybusses and industrial trams.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 05 May 2019 15:53

I decided to test to see if my NRT RV set worked alright with the version that finally made it in, and it appears so far so good, though of course various errors are still uncorrected.

However I am getting a duplicated capacity in the buy menu that I had not noticed in previous NRT versions:
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by SimYouLater » 28 Jul 2019 22:38

Found a glitch with the Adelbrecht Steam Tram.
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Lionic » 30 Jul 2019 06:14

Hi mop! I receive "Unknown Action 0 property 0x16 (sprite 3)" error when trying to launch your set on OpenTTD 1.9.1 or 1.9.2. Does anyone else have similar problems?

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Aegir » 30 Jul 2019 08:40

Lionic wrote:
30 Jul 2019 06:14
Hi mop! I receive "Unknown Action 0 property 0x16 (sprite 3)" error when trying to launch your set on OpenTTD 1.9.1 or 1.9.2. Does anyone else have similar problems?
You'll probably want to run this with a Nightly instead of a stable build. Stable builds don't have NRT yet and this set is pretty much aimed at NRT :D
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Lionic » 30 Jul 2019 13:08

Got it. Thanks, Aegir.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by SimYouLater » 31 Jul 2019 22:13

supermop wrote:
07 Mar 2018 22:52
...
SimYouLater wrote:
28 Jul 2019 22:38
Found a glitch with the Adelbrecht Steam Tram. Image
The steam arises one whole vehicle length ahead of the tram. This is a bug, right?
Licenses for my work...
You automatically have my permission to re-license graphics or code by me if needed for use in any project that is not GPL v2, on the condition that if you release any derivatives of my graphics they're automatically considered as ALSO GPL v2 (code may remain unreleased, but please do provide it) and carry this provision in GPL v2 uses.
Please ask someone in-the-know to be sure that the graphics are done by me. Especially TTD-Scale, long story.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 01 Aug 2019 12:38

Yep, probably messed up entering the offset for the effect.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Diesel Power » 02 Aug 2019 23:36

Can we have articulated open trucks in the next release (as and when)? There are only open ridgids available and and open RVs are the only ones that can carry plant fibres in FIRS 3. So it's either ridgids or trams, it kinda limits our options.
Great set!

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