Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

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supermop
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Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 22 May 2017 03:26

Hi all,

I am starting a development thread for this project to park sources etc in, as well as for any development related discussion.

You can find the release thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963

Dual Mode Test Grf here:
moprv.grf
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Last edited by supermop on 28 Jun 2017 22:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 22 May 2017 03:30

Working on adding some dual mode diesel/electric trucks, which can run on regular road, but get a boost in power and savings in running cost when under wires. While I work them out, currently they are in a separate add-on grf.

Tried to add a semi truck as well, but ended up with the car before the horse as it were:
cart before.png
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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 30 May 2017 03:05

Managed to squeeze a fair amount of work on this in over the weekend and have a more or less viable add-odd grf ready.

This set contains no trolley buses, and only a few trolley trucks, but adds many normal diesel trucks as a sort of generic framework. Parameters are also added for capacity and running cost. For now, use this along side Trolleybi until I move all of the electric vehicles over to this set.
Mop GRV 1.png
2nd Generation Semis work a winding road to supply and carry oil from an improbable oil well
Mop GRV 1.png (561.05 KiB) Viewed 5304 times
Mop GRV 2.png
4th Generation trucks with mineral trailers serve a copper mine up a short valley
Mop GRV 2.png (604.5 KiB) Viewed 5304 times
moprv.grf
Add-on grf, 0.0.15
(209.38 KiB) Downloaded 70 times
Currently the add-on contains:

[*]5 generations of diesel semi (articulated) trucks in all types
[*]4 generations of diesel rigid box trucks
[*]2 generations of dual-mode rigid and semi box trucks
[*]3 generations of trolley Semi box trucks

Drawn but not yet coded are:
[*]3 earlier generation of steam/diesel trucks in all types
[*]all remaining diesel trucks
[*]all remaining dual mode trucks
[*]all remaining trolley trucks

Not yet drawn but to be added soon:
[*]Articulated buses in steam, diesel, trolley, and dual-mode
[*]diesel and electric trams

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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 10 Jun 2017 04:32

moprv.grf
New Version
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New Version with essentially all trucks and buses. Still some tweaks to be made, and trams need to be added.

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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 18 Jun 2017 14:04

OK - Now the road vehicle side is 'complete', barring any changes to be made in response to testing feedback.

Still not much in the way of trams, other than some generic test vehicles. Version 0.2.6 below
moprv26.grf
test grf
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moprv26.nml
source nml
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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by Doorslammer » 18 Jun 2017 14:49

Interesting. Loving the idea of dual mode trucks.
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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 23 Jun 2017 14:15

Have been working on some correctly sized cargo beds for the earliest generation of trucks, so getting ready to release a next more complete version. Before I do, I was wondering if anyone had comments on capacities etc, or noticed any other errors I should correct.

Best,

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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by colossal404 » 23 Jun 2017 16:55

Yeah, something's not okay with the last dual-mode hopper truck, trailer does not appear, capacity halved.
Otherwise it's great, just cannot use the modern trolley trucks properly because of trolley wire speed limit, which is from an other set, so you got nothing to do with it.
It's just an idea, but is this set generic enough to get some double trailer trucks for modern years? Maybe only for electric ones, since they are powerful enough to handle much more cargo.
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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 23 Jun 2017 17:17

colossal404 wrote:Yeah, something's not okay with the last dual-mode hopper truck, trailer does not appear, capacity halved.
Otherwise it's great, just cannot use the modern trolley trucks properly because of trolley wire speed limit, which is from an other set, so you got nothing to do with it.
It's just an idea, but is this set generic enough to get some double trailer trucks for modern years? Maybe only for electric ones, since they are powerful enough to handle much more cargo.
Thanks for noticing that one - will fix it soon!
I am planning on adding 'road train' trucks with 2 or 3 trailers, perhaps with slightly more HP but less top speed than the regular semi trucks. Really for the big mines in FIRS3, trains are required, but it would be nice to serve some of them with trucks without needing 60 trucks per mine.

Speed limits are tricky, as it is easier to have a progression of large differences in speeds, but road types are more interesting if most of the cheap and town roads are low speed, and only expensive highway is unlimited. I was unsure where to set the speeds when coding Unspooled, so maybe it is time to add a higher speed electric road, or raise the speed of regular asphalt road. In real life, most trucks like this would rarely travel over 100kmh, and modern trolley trucks may go even slower than that, but in the game 140 kmh trucks are kind of needed to differentiate the late game from mid game. What do you think? Roads should be faster, or trucks should be slower but better some other way?

Thanks!

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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by colossal404 » 23 Jun 2017 18:01

supermop wrote: I am planning on adding 'road train' trucks with 2 or 3 trailers
Cool!
supermop wrote: Speed limits are tricky, What do you think? Roads should be faster, or trucks should be slower but better some other way?
First opinion: Speed!
Second opinion: MOAR SPEED!
Third opinion: Maybe some collaborations with the unspooled grf (which I didn't realize that it was made by you too), there could be some new technology electric road, something like the wireless chargers that conduct electricity by magnetic field. Since it would be wireless, it could be speed limit ...less, with the advantages of the electric truck's enermous power.
Another tought: maybe autonomous vehicles from 2020-30-40, with no cab and a larger cargo capacity?
.
.
.
.
I know, I know, enough strange ideas for today.
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Re: Trolleybi / Generic Road Vehicle Development

Post by supermop » 28 Jun 2017 04:18

New Version 0.2.8:
  • Adds 'Road Trains' - Semi tractors with 3 short trailers. Currently available for every type and generation, subject to change. Speeds, capacities, and power may change

    Added more appropriate new truck body sprites for the oldest diesel trucks.

    Made lots of fixes to trailers not showing, having wrong cargo class etc.

    Fixed first diesel bus erroneously set to be electric.

    Changed NewGRF name to be a bit more reflective of the comprehensive nature of the set
road trains.png
Heavy rakes of coal and ore trailers pass through a small steelmaking town...
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Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 28 Jun 2017 22:36

Another new version, a few more truck cargo class errors found and fixed, and capacities and graphics corrected for Road Trains.

I've also added some switches for horsepower, so that some models of trucks will have slight increases in HP based on purchase year, to give some more granular progress without adding a bunch more generations. The effect is subtle, basically small increments of HP from roughly one decade to the next for a given model, to simulate small improvements made to model over the course of its production life.
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 02 Jul 2017 04:02

New version adds steam buses, and a new running cost framework (still in progress, only for buses at the moment).
moprv30.grf
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 23 Aug 2017 01:41

New version!

Added a roster of trams - Electric, Steam, and Gasoline/Diesel - in three basic types; Rigid Single-Car, Articulated/Trailer, and longer Light Rail Vehicles:
Trams.png
Trams.png (192.53 KiB) Viewed 4354 times
There are roughly seven generations of tram styles, from the 1870s through to the 2040s, and obviously some various within each generation. Some sprites are currently placeholders - currently only sprite components for 2nd, 3rd, and 6th generations are drawn, so 1st, 4th, 5th, and 7th generation trams share the style of their preceding or following style at the moment. More roof styles, doors, and liveries to come.

Best,
moprv37.grf
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Lesarthois » 09 Oct 2017 00:43

Great set!

I can't wit to see a "regular" OpenTTD version as well. Or maybe not, RATT is very nice to play with :p
But your early steam busses and gas trucks are a needed adition for early play times.

I noticed a couple of things while playing - I'm in erly stages so I haven't got everything yet - it make some details easier to notice than when sampling a whole NewGRF at once!

The steam busses have trailers - on my game, the trailer infrequently appears without the passenger cabin. I first though it was just a dual design thing, with some of them supposed to have open trailers; but when I look at the sprites moving in game, I can see through the trailer.

One little mistake in giving road trains their properties - the Oregrund Refrigerated Road Train can be refitted to carry metal, wood, hardware, and wool (in addition to milk/food/fish).
Given that there is an all-purpose version, this seems like a slight mistake in defining it's purpose.
But keep up the good work, those are awesome trucks and trams you made here :bow:
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 13 Oct 2017 15:15

Lesarthois wrote:Great set!

I can't wit to see a "regular" OpenTTD version as well. Or maybe not, RATT is very nice to play with :p
But your early steam busses and gas trucks are a needed adition for early play times.

I noticed a couple of things while playing - I'm in erly stages so I haven't got everything yet - it make some details easier to notice than when sampling a whole NewGRF at once!

The steam busses have trailers - on my game, the trailer infrequently appears without the passenger cabin. I first though it was just a dual design thing, with some of them supposed to have open trailers; but when I look at the sprites moving in game, I can see through the trailer.

One little mistake in giving road trains their properties - the Oregrund Refrigerated Road Train can be refitted to carry metal, wood, hardware, and wool (in addition to milk/food/fish).
Given that there is an all-purpose version, this seems like a slight mistake in defining it's purpose.
But keep up the good work, those are awesome trucks and trams you made here :bow:
Thanks for your feedback!

The last couple weeks I have been drawing new tram sprites, and I hope to have a new version out in a day or two. I took a look at the code, and was able to identify the problem with the early steam buses. For the refrigerated trucks, I have this problem more generally in the sense that I allow piece goods but do not specifically disallow various piece goods that do not need refrigeration, as I thought it might be useful to allow returning supplies etc to a food producing industry in the otherwise empty trucks. But now it does bother me, so i might try to further limit the cargoes. While of course it is possible to put wood inside a refrigerated truck, you wouldn't reasonably receive any premium payment for keeping the wood cold and fresh.

Another option would therefore be to allow ref. trucks to carry everything a box truck can, but only apply the cargo decay bonus to CC_REFRIGERATED (because other cargoes won't care).

By the way, how are you finding road trains? I fear they might be overpowered, and odd for the non-heavy cargoes. It might make sense to limit them more like Andy's HAUL trucks - only hoppers and flatbeds, only on certain road types?

Best,
Last edited by supermop on 13 Oct 2017 15:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by Lesarthois » 13 Oct 2017 15:32

I gotcha on the multi-pupose trucks - but that would make more sense if you had a generic truc - here you have about a dozen, so there is no shame restricting some to only a few cargo types. :wink:

My feeling on road trains is that, IMO, in the early times (I have played up to 1950 so far), road trains for coal/minerals are not so useful. Unless the coal mine and receving industry are in a town, trains are cheap enough that even for a low production mine, it's better using a train than trucks.
On the other hand, your road trains are life savers for "town cargo" (goods, food, fruits, alcohol, etc) as they allow to carry them in town (from a brewery to an hotel - I use FIRS).
So if you want to trim down on the trucks, I'd drop the "primary ressources" road trains (coal, iron, etc...) at least before 1950, but I'd keep the "consumer goods" ones.
But that's my own vision of how I play. There are probably many folks around that would love the idea to do everything by trucks.

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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 16 Oct 2017 16:57

New Version:

Adds:
Early steam open and box trucks (some sprite alignment issues known)
Parcel/mail trams (capacities and cost may change in the future - looking for feedback)
'Industrial' trams - short HEQs style tramway trains (known sprite issues)
More liveries and sprites for tram generations.

Let me know what you think...
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Re: Mop Generic NRT Road Vehicle Development (was Trolleybi)

Post by supermop » 17 Oct 2017 04:48

New Version:

Fixes some alignment issues,
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