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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:19 am 
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So, it's finally time to start a playtesting phase of the French Set GRF I've bee working on for quite a while.
Summarizing, what's done so far is:

(*) A handful of locomotives (13 steamers, 4 diesels, 2 electrics), 3 railbuses and 2 EMUs taken from the most representative French narrow gauge lines, introduced from 1882 to about 1965;
(*) Passenger coaches and freight wagons that will allow compatibility with ECS, FIRS, as well as the original TTD industries;
(*) A complementary rails set designed to work with these trains; so far, it includes unelectrified, catenary-powered, 3rd rail-powered and rackrail NG tracks (other sets' developers are more than welcome to use the trackset alone: documentation is found in the attached readme file).

There is support for OTTD only; a TTDPatch version is planned, but not done yet. The set requires a recent nightly version of OTTD, to take advantage of the newly-introduced features; alternatively, OpenTTD 1.2.0-beta1 has been tested and seems to work.

All graphics and coding are done by me; I used MB's m4nfo to code this set. BTW, I was completely amazed by how powerful and user-friendly that tool is, at least when it comes to coding trains! :D Therefore, a special, huge "thank you" goes to Michael Blunck for his valuable help and for assisting me in my first steps as a coder. :bow:

The set is still unfinished; new vehicles still need to be drawn and added, but I'd love it if I could start getting some feedback and constructive criticism on what's been done so far. Right now, the set is fully playable, albeit with a limited number of vehicles (notably, a large part of the MUs is missing). The vehicles drawn so far are concentrated on the early period, so roughly 1890 - 1950.

I'll post the "readme" file here. If anyone is interested in giving this set a shot, they're more than welcome to contact me and they'll get the GRFs. Please consider those files as if they were intended for personal use only; when I complete the finalized version of the set, it will be publicly available.

Hope I could catch your interest ;)

- EDIT Sep 2 2012: updated readme file -

- EDIT Sep 29 2018 -

The set is now complete and will be published in the Releases thread. In the meantime, translations are needed. If you want to translate this set to your language, please download the attached zipfile, which contains the English text with all the strings, and create a version in your language.
Thanks in advance for your help! :)


Attachments:
File comment: A sample of the trains in the French NG Trains set
depot.png
depot.png [ 26.48 KiB | Viewed 18226 times ]
File comment: Set readme (updated to version 0.104)
donotreadme2.pdf [1.91 MiB]
Downloaded 660 times
File comment: -EDIT September 2018- English text for translations
ng frenchset strings.zip [4.89 KiB]
Downloaded 17 times


Last edited by Snail on Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:19 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:09 am 
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Cute tiny trains! :tongue:

Nice work Snail, keep it up. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:41 pm 
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:shock: Fantastic stuff Snail. Very extensive. As a spiritual father of the French Set, I will of course do some testing of this. I'll PM you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:24 pm 
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All locomotives appear to have max speed 6mph in my game ;)

Buy menu reports correct speeds, but when built, 6mph is result.

EDIT: this occurs with both of the available railtypes in 1900 (50mph, 12mph). OpenTTD r23793

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:12 am 
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Thanks for your kind words, guys ;)

andythenorth wrote:
All locomotives appear to have max speed 6mph in my game ;)

Buy menu reports correct speeds, but when built, 6mph is result.

EDIT: this occurs with both of the available railtypes in 1900 (50mph, 12mph). OpenTTD r23793

Hmm. This is interesting. I tried to replicate it (OTTD r23793, French Trains and Rails GRFs installed), but to me, it seems to work fine.

Please see the attached screenshot:
Attachment:
File comment: Max speed of trains: higher than 10km/h on non-rackrail tracks (r23793)
maxspeed_test.png [304.54 KiB]
Downloaded 4 times

In this game, I had the latest FIRS nightly activated (r2709); however, I tried another game with just the two French GRFs, and it worked fine as well.

6mph should be all the engines' max speed on *rackrail* track. However, on *normal* track, they should be able to reach max speed.

Andy, a thing you could try, would be to buy the "021T" engine (the rackrail steamer), build a train with it, and see what max speed it reaches. It should be about 10 mph on rackrail tracks and a little bit higher on normal tracks.

Another questions would be, what other GRFs were enabled in your game? Perhaps there might be a conflict with some of them. (And it would be interesting to know! :) )

Did any of the other testers experience this issue? I'll keep distributing the GRF as it is for now, but if we discover that there is indeed a bug, all the testers will receive the new version upon correction.

And as always, new testers are always welcome ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:51 am 
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What influence does the acceleration setting have?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:59 am 
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Snail wrote:
6mph should be all the engines' max speed on *rackrail* track. However, on *normal* track, they should be able to reach max speed

I'd say it's user error (probably when switching track type). I don't have the savegame from last night and I can't replicate the issue now. Using the 50mph track, trains show speeds matching buy menu. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:24 pm 
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OTTD 1.2 Beta 3

When I try for narrow gauge track (using monorail) I get mono rail

This is for an 1882 start

Attachment:
Unnamed, 01-01-1882.png [84.13 KiB]
Downloaded 4 times


Save game

Attachment:
File comment: Savegame
Uh.sav [409.18 KiB]
Downloaded 127 times


So I'm confused as to what I'm supposed to do?

Cheers

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:20 am 
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Hello Snail, thank you for sending me your work so fast. I have tested it (1.2 beta3, MacOS 10.4.11) very quickly, it is really amazing! I didn't make a thorough investigation so I may have missed some features. I did not have problems with the speed like the one reported by Andy but I have found some odd things.

This concerns the Narrow Gauge train set.

- Graphical glitch : The only glitch I found so far was when using a 031T SGLM with mixed mail/passenger carriage (see picture).


Attachment:
File comment: Graphical glitch when using 031T SGLM with mixed pass/mail carriages
031T SGLM-Glitch.png
031T SGLM-Glitch.png [ 33.75 KiB | Viewed 17857 times ]




- Wagon speed limit : passenger coach, mixed passenger/mail car and mail van have speed limit values of 40 and 49 km/h. But when using these with a faster locomotive (120T for example, 54 km/h) the train goes to the maximum speed of the locomotive. Is this normal? (this doesn't bother me) The freight carriages slow the train normally.



- Bug 1 : this concerns 030T and 030T tram. When attached to these engines, mail vans and mixed pass/mail van have a really high annual cost (£1190, when a passenger coach cost £23 a year).



- Bug 2 : (with FIRS) When refitting a freight carriage, a small fee is sometimes required (£10-20). But when refitting the tanker to Alcohol, Food(wine) or Milk, it costs £19822. Is this normal?



Again, I would like to thank you for this really good work. I hope this post will help you. I particularly liked the Mallet engines! Keep going, this is excellent!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:23 am 
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This concerns the french narrow gauge tracks set.

- Bug(?) : I noticed that rackrail tracks come with a fence, when normal tracks don't have one (see picture). Is this intended?
Attachment:
File comment: Fence for rackrail, no fence for normal track.
Tracks.png
Tracks.png [ 15.38 KiB | Viewed 17855 times ]





- Suggestion : I read in your donotreadme file that there were stations equipped with double gauge tracks (both normal and narrow), so all trains could share the same tracks. Do you intend to make a 'double gauge' track type? I guess it will result difficult to draw properly, but still. Good idea?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:23 am 
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The A80D and A150D2 railcars look a bit like they have a hat on. In this picture, the roof doesn't seem that round. Especially evident in the diagonal views.
The running costs are also a bit odd (030T tramway engine costs barely less than regular 030T, even though it's about two times weaker, SGLM 031T is much more expensive than 030T even though it's worse every which way); I could probably find some other examples. Finally, the capacity of the four-axle passenger car seems a bit high.
That being said, I don't see much more to improve in. The graphics are in the most cases just fine as they are.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:49 am 
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Wow, quite a bit of feedback! Thank you all, it's great to read your comments.

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:
OTTD 1.2 Beta 3
When I try for narrow gauge track (using monorail) I get mono rail

Well, if you installed the French Rails Set (as it appears from the screenshot), then you should find the NG tracks at to the bottom of the railtypes list. In OTTD, narrow gauge tracks don't replace monorail; they are simply added to the list of available railtypes. This is the reason why, if you build monorail, it will be still shown as monorail.

arikover wrote:
This concerns the Narrow Gauge train set.
- Graphical glitch : The only glitch I found so far was when using a 031T SGLM with mixed mail/passenger carriage (see picture).

Ok, this was a feature of those wagons. The mixed mail/passenger carriage used on those lines had a small "box" on half of the roof, to give light to the mail compartment; this box only appeared on one extremity of the wagon, and only on half of its width. Here is a picture of it (the box is highlighted):

Attachment:
train-vapeur avr 1889.png
train-vapeur avr 1889.png [ 360.45 KiB | Viewed 17825 times ]


Perhaps I might play with the shading a little bit more, to make it look like less of a glitch.
(Also please notice the flipped engine ;) those steamers were almost always used as cab-forward engines).

arikover wrote:
- Wagon speed limit : passenger coach, mixed passenger/mail car and mail van have speed limit values of 40 and 49 km/h. But when using these with a faster locomotive (120T for example, 54 km/h) the train goes to the maximum speed of the locomotive. Is this normal? (this doesn't bother me) The freight carriages slow the train normally.

Oh, interesting! This should not be the way it works, i.e. the 2-axle wagons should still slow the train down. This is also an incentive to buy bogie-mounted cars, by the way. I'll have a look at the code! :)

arikover wrote:
- Bug 1 : this concerns 030T and 030T tram. When attached to these engines, mail vans and mixed pass/mail van have a really high annual cost (£1190, when a passenger coach cost £23 a year).

True!! :oops: Very good catch. Probably, some properties got screwed up when defining the "tramway"-style mail and mixed coaches. I'll fix this as soon as I can.

arikover wrote:
- Bug 2 : (with FIRS) When refitting a freight carriage, a small fee is sometimes required (£10-20). But when refitting the tanker to Alcohol, Food(wine) or Milk, it costs £19822. Is this normal?

Whoops! Well, the idea behind it is that refittinng to food or milk would need cleaning, but no one would charge that much! :p I'll have a look into that, too.

arikover wrote:
This concerns the french narrow gauge tracks set.

- Bug(?) : I noticed that rackrail tracks come with a fence, when normal tracks don't have one (see picture). Is this intended?

Yes! This is intended. Most of the early unelectrified narrow gauge lines were unprotected, probably because of the low speed reached by those trains, as well as their low frequency. Electrified and modern tracks are usually protected by wooden fences though. I thought this would add variety to the set as well.

arikover wrote:
- Suggestion : I read in your donotreadme file that there were stations equipped with double gauge tracks (both normal and narrow), so all trains could share the same tracks. Do you intend to make a 'double gauge' track type? I guess it will result difficult to draw properly, but still. Good idea?

I also think it's a good idea in principle, but there are a few things that might make it problematic. First, drawing a double gauge track would be quite awkward, as you said, because the space is very limited and it would be hard to make a good double gauge track that's not messy. Then, I'm already planning to fill all the 16 slots for the railtypes (summing up the SG and NG tracks for the French set), so there would be no room for double gauge tracks. In reality, they were used quite rarely anyway.

arikover wrote:
I hope this post will help you.

It does, quite a lot! :D Good hunting.

oberhümer wrote:
The A80D and A150D2 railcars look a bit like they have a hat on. In this picture, the roof doesn't seem that round. Especially evident in the diagonal views.

I see what you mean. I'll review that when I draw the other EMUs (which will happen very soon!)

oberhümer wrote:
030T tramway engine costs barely less than regular 030T, even though it's about two times weaker

Well, the running costs in 1900 are about 15,600FRF vs 21,300 FRF . Perhaps the Tramway might be a little bit cheaper, say around 12,000 FRF. But probably no cheaper than that.

oberhümer wrote:
SGLM 031T is much more expensive than 030T even though it's worse every which way

It's marginally slower, but also more powerful (279hp vs. 250) and it's got a much higher TE (63 kN vs. 38). The SGLM 031T is the first mountain NG loco. However, also considering the cost of the 020 020T (which has a much higher TE), perhaps I could make both 031Ts a little bit cheaper. I also was a little bit afraid they'd be a little overpriced w.r.t. the regular 030T.

That said, the 030T was by far the most widespread steamer in the French NG scene, so it would make sense to make it attractive in-game...

oberhümer wrote:
Finally, the capacity of the four-axle passenger car seems a bit high.

Well, those numbers are taken from historical data. A few coaches had a central corridor and seven sets of 8 seats each (4 wooden seats mounted "vis-à-vis" at each side of the corridor, in correspondence to the windows), resulting in 56 (rather uncomfy) 3rd class seats. I tried to balance this with a very quickly-decaying cargo aging, so those coaches won't pay much if used for long-distance transport, despite their large capacity.

Again, thanks for your feedback! Very helpful. Please keep them coming ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:04 am 
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Snail wrote:
arikover wrote:
- Wagon speed limit : passenger coach, mixed passenger/mail car and mail van have speed limit values of 40 and 49 km/h. But when using these with a faster locomotive (120T for example, 54 km/h) the train goes to the maximum speed of the locomotive. Is this normal? (this doesn't bother me) The freight carriages slow the train normally.

Oh, interesting! This should not be the way it works, i.e. the 2-axle wagons should still slow the train down. This is also an incentive to buy bogie-mounted cars, by the way. I'll have a look at the code! :)

If you use livery override, the speed of the wagon is generally and by design and intention not taken into account.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:06 pm 
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planetmaker wrote:
If you use livery override, the speed of the wagon is generally and by design and intention not taken into account.

True. This is why I have to override this through a property callback which sets the wagon's max speed one more time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Quote:
Well, if you installed the French Rails Set (as it appears from the screenshot), then you should find the NG tracks at to the bottom of the railtypes list. In OTTD, narrow gauge tracks don't replace monorail; they are simply added to the list of available railtypes. This is the reason why, if you build monorail, it will be still shown as monorail.


This is what I get - as you can see no NG but I do get monorail in 1882 :cry:

Attachment:
Unnamed, 01-01-1882#1.png [206.24 KiB]
Downloaded 3 times


(edit) if I remove all GRFs except the two French ones I get no trains in 1882. If I start in 2000 I get standard rail, monrail and High speed NG


Last edited by Bob_Mackenzie on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Could it be because the French narrow gauge set is disabled?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Its always been like that - I'm not sure what's disabling it


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Bob_Mackenzie wrote:
This is what I get - as you can see no NG but I do get monorail in 1882 :cry:

Attachment:
Unnamed, 01-01-1882#1.png


(edit) if I remove all GRFs except the two French ones I get no trains in 1882. If I start in 2000 I get standard rail, monrail and High speed NG

Hmm. This is strange. It looks like the French rails are not being displayed in their appropriate slots.
Why is the French Trains set disabled, btw (it shows a red square in your screenshot)? -EDIT- Do you get ant error messages when you try and start a game with just the two French GRFs?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:33 pm 
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I wonder whether there's some interference with the SwedishRails. There shouldn't as they - by default - only redefine RAIL and ELRL, but...
But without NewGRFs I can't check anything of course.

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