SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

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GarryG
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by GarryG »

GarryG wrote:I've decided to re-add bulk terminals and the port
That's good news. Should satisfy a lot of players.

If ever you want another tester PM me.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Thanks but at the moment it's a one-man operation...you get the chance to test when I release a version. I set 14 AI companies loose on the grf to see what they do. They're a bit aimless but save me a lot of time.

...one of them has just started a food service to a port and it looks like another AI is about to deliver goods. That should start wood and coal imports (in theory).

I'll keep you in mind though if I need some testing.

Some AI have finally started to deliver petrol. Many of there stations will close down soon as there's only a trickle of petrol around. The port to the east has begun to receive food and goods but as the game is only 4 years old there's not yet much cargo to carry.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Version 1.1 is on the way, probably by the end of this week, that's the plan anyway.

Currently my connection to Bananas is not functioning (I'm unable to update the existing entry or add a new file) and no-one has yet been able to work out why. So, I'll be adding the new files to the "graphics Releases" thread. At least that'll allow players to access it.

There are a LOT of changes.

...and there are a couple of issues from my existing game (too much coal!) which I need to address first. Earlier changes have overcompensated, so 'not enough coal' has translated into 'too much coal' and there's nowhere to take it. It's easy to fix.

------

Just discovered a bug that I can't yet officially report as I haven't released the version that causes it, but I'll mention it here.

In the scenario editor, I create a new map and drop a few towns. If I now click on "many random industries", any primary industries that are built are malformed as they don't appear to use my code to build...they are not correctly initialised. However, if I manually build an industry then it's fine. So, the editor is recognising my grf, it's just the "many random industries" section that ignores it.

I can do a flyspray bug report once my new version is out. It's possible that I'm the only person likely to be directly affected by this... :(
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by McZapkie »

Great set, it fill difficulty level gap between FIRS and ECS.

I have some remarks about options.
1. I miss option to disable random creation of industries during game play (not disabling construction, just prob_in_game: 0 if option is enabled).
2. Option with increased station rating should not apply for passenger/mail - which usually overpower cargo transport.
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

McZapkie wrote:Great set, it fill difficulty level gap between FIRS and ECS.

I have some remarks about options.
1. I miss option to disable random creation of industries during game play (not disabling construction, just prob_in_game: 0 if option is enabled).
2. Option with increased station rating should not apply for passenger/mail - which usually overpower cargo transport.
I'll have a look. It's something I never use but I'll see if I can incorporate those options.
1. I miss option to disable random creation of industries during game play (not disabling construction, just prob_in_game: 0 if option is enabled).
Actually you can achieve that by setting "industry construction" to "funding only" once the game has started. Would that work for you?
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by McZapkie »

3iff wrote:
McZapkie wrote:
1. I miss option to disable random creation of industries during game play (not disabling construction, just prob_in_game: 0 if option is enabled).
Actually you can achieve that by setting "industry construction" to "funding only" once the game has started. Would that work for you?
Unfortunately, it works only for random map, this option is grayed in case of height map loaded into map editor.
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

andythenorth wrote:Out of interest, how are you compiling SPI? Have you kept the build framework from FIRS?
I'm doing it a very non-standard way. I took the firs generated nml file, all 14 megs of it and stripped out everything I didn't want. I then hand edit everything. It can make changing things quite tedious at times...but for me it's a more comfortable system.

So, it's one big (currently 6megs) nml text file...looks like I've added a meg since I released v1.1 a couple of weeks ago but I'm adding a few industries.

If you've downloaded v1.1 from the graphics releases thread then you can see the source I'm using. Bananas isn't working for me at the moment so it's the only place to get it.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

McZapkie wrote:
3iff wrote:
McZapkie wrote:
Actually you can achieve that by setting "industry construction" to "funding only" once the game has started. Would that work for you?
Unfortunately, it works only for random map, this option is grayed in case of height map loaded into map editor.
Oh, I never use heightmaps (well, mostly never). I'll see if I can add a setting for that. Alternatively, should that be reported as a bug?
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by andythenorth »

3iff wrote:I'm doing it a very non-standard way. I took the firs generated nml file, all 14 megs of it and stripped out everything I didn't want. I then hand edit everything. It can make changing things quite tedious at times...but for me it's a more comfortable system.
The first grf I wrote was HEQS, and that started out as one big nfo file. It's an easy way to get started. :)

You might find it helpful sometime to split your files up by industry (and some header files), and have a script to join them together before running nmlc. It's trivial to join text files in something like python.

Advantages:
- easier to avoid unintended find-replace changes in wrong parts of the file
- easier to find code (shorter file)
- possibly better text editor performance (14MB is not big, but still)
- it's quite easy to then set up single-industry compiles, which are really useful when developing. FIRS takes ~50 seconds to do a full compile, but a single industry can be compiled in about 5 seconds. This is really useful when editing graphics and layouts.

Disadvantages:
- your text editor needs to be able to do find-replace on all files in a folder, when you want to change something everywhere

I wrote more about templating and python etc here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58390

The other thing you might consider is using a version control repository, if not already. :)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Eddi »

McZapkie wrote:this option is grayed in case of height map loaded into map editor.
you must set this option before opening the scenario editor. even if the scenario is completely empty, it's still an actual running game already, and thus you cannot make changes to some settings.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

I just compiled firs2 on my machine...wow, it's slow. A full compile from the original source takes 4:18 (that's minutes!), still that's not a big deal at the moment as I'm doing other things while I wait.

I'm not sure how long a straight nml compile takes.

Oh, I did get some compiler warnings:
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\czech.lng", line 99: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\czech.lng", line 104: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\esperanto.lng", line 122: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\esperanto.lng", line 128: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\romanian.lng", line 125: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\romanian.lng", line 132: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\serbian.lng", line 123: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\serbian.lng", line 129: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\slovak.lng", line 133: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\slovak.lng", line 140: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\welsh.lng", line 122: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\welsh.lng", line 128: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by planetmaker »

3iff wrote: Oh, I did get some compiler warnings:
←[K nmlc warning: "lang\czech.lng", line 99: String commands don't match with master file "english.lng"(...)
That's an indicator that the translation(s) are outdated (the translation uses different string codes like {VOLUME}, {}, ... than the master language file).
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by andythenorth »

3iff wrote:I just compiled firs2 on my machine...wow, it's slow. A full compile from the original source takes 4:18
Wow, that's interesting :D The compiler on devzone server takes about the same time, but that's in a VM sharing resources with other things.

What OS do you have, and what CPU / RAM? :)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

It's a ****py work PC, WinXP (Yes, I know!), pentium 4 3Ghz, 2gig ram.

...it works but it might need a new mainspring. (That's supposed to be a joke...).
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Eddi »

3iff wrote:****py
wtf is that supposed to be?

(i've never understood this "censoring", but this seems over the top)
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by 3iff »

Crappy.

I starred it out because too many people are too sensitive. I was erring on the side of caution.
Sorry if I offended you by not offending you. :?
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Alberth »

It's confusing rather than offending.

Afaik the board does its own censoring too, I think (at least I turned such a setting off a looong time ago), so maybe don't worry too much?
Being a retired OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by Eddi »

the problem with "censoring" is that as a non-native speaker, you often lack the context to undo it in your mind. also, it's plain useless. kids will learn these words anyway, and generally don't need such "protection". and people who get "offended" by such words are generally the kind of people who are going to be offended either way, so you're not helping those people either. the negative effects definitely outweigh the good ones (and i doubt there are any of those)
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
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Re: SPI -Stockpiled Industries - Development thread

Post by McZapkie »

Some my remarks after multiplayer session:

1. Textile mill should treat wool and fibres as alternatives, not conjunction, same for sand/clay for brick works or stone/clay for cement plant.

2. it is strange, that Machine Shop produce BDMT from metal and petrol. I miss something like ENSP (or let say, machinery/vehicles), they would be sent to mines to increase crew level (basic production without passengers, normal with passengers, overtime with passengers and machinery).

3. Manpower for sand pits does not work fine in case of cargodist. It should be used only for industry with one resource produced (for example coal/ore mine), in case of quarry/dredging site, ENSP would be nice to increase production if stockpiled.

4. Some industries should not require all inputs, for example paper mill should produce paper if any wood is delivered, but increase production rate if clay/chemicals are delivered (similar, like supplies for fishing harbour or food processor, it works perfectly).

5. Not sure, what for are both scrap yards and scrap merchants, or cereal/arable farm?

Basically this set is awesome, is slightly harder than its parent FIRS, but not such insane as ECS is.
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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