2CC Wagon Set

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2CC Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 21 Dec 2012 11:13

Last year, Voyager One and I (mainly Voyager One) drew a lot of wagons intended for the 2CC trainset. However, before they were finished, the 2CC trainset's coder, DJ Nekkid, disappeared without a trace. I attempted to take over the 2CC trainset's code, but I couldn't wrap my head around the convoluted mess of NFO and compile scripts. So instead, I decided to undertake a new project which will be separate from the 2CC set. This is a set which will contain only wagons, mainly in 2CC, and intended for combination with the 2CC trainset or any other trainset with which it happens to match.

Here is an alpha version, which contains all of the passenger wagons, all drawn by Voyager One (save for the Talgo). Feedback and suggestions are welcome

Some points:
- I realise the alignments may be a little off
- Some wagon liveries may look mismatched, the sprites will probably be tweaked to be more consistent
- Mail wagons have been left out, many passenger carriages are refittable to mail and provide separate graphics (and the cargo boxcars will also be refittable to mail to create cargo mail trains)
- Costs haven't been done yet, all wagons are free for now :P
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wagonset-alpha.zip
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The selection of passenger wagons
The selection of passenger wagons
wagons.png (37.25 KiB) Viewed 6966 times
Last edited by Emperor Jake on 23 Dec 2012 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 21 Dec 2012 11:17

Holy crap! They are so many???? I really forgot... :lol: And what will happen when you add freight and mail wagons too... :D :D :D Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice...
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Purno » 21 Dec 2012 11:18

I disagree with this sets name, as I pointed out in the 2cc Trainset topic. I'd appreciate a discussion about this :)
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by SquireJames » 21 Dec 2012 11:26

I vote they call it the LuL Set, just for you Purno :P
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 21 Dec 2012 11:40

Purno wrote:I disagree with this sets name, as I pointed out in the 2cc Trainset topic. I'd appreciate a discussion about this :)
OK, this is something I agree with. Should be something like "2CCTrainset - Expanded Wagons", IMH(umble)O.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 21 Dec 2012 12:08

Voyager One wrote:
Purno wrote:I disagree with this sets name, as I pointed out in the 2cc Trainset topic. I'd appreciate a discussion about this :)
OK, this is something I agree with. Should be something like "2CCTrainset - Expanded Wagons", IMH(umble)O.
That one sounds pretty good.
Voyager One wrote:Holy crap! They are so many???? I really forgot... :lol: And what will happen when you add freight and mail wagons too... :D :D :D Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice...
Actually, the mail wagons are already in there, as refits for most of the passenger wagons. And yes, the freight wagons will add at least as many more wagons (I haven't counted them) :lol:
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by planetmaker » 21 Dec 2012 12:15

"Expanded wagons" sounds a bit funky to me, like if I take the compressor and inflate the wagons to their real size ;-)

I'd call it "2cc Extra Wagons" or "2cc Wagons add-on"

Technically, I'd try to detect the 2ccTS and overwrite its wagons via a grf override, if present. And supply them normally, if it's not present.

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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by dasy2k1 » 21 Dec 2012 12:25

Just a sprite hint, wouldn't regional and local coaches normally have double doors at 1/3 and 2/3 rather than single doors by the vestibule ends like express coaches

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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 21 Dec 2012 12:29

dasy2k1 wrote:Just a sprite hint, wouldn't regional and local coaches normally have double doors at 1/3 and 2/3 rather than single doors by the vestibule ends like express coaches

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The sprites are mostly based off real coaches, plus they didn't have coaches with centre doors in the earlier years (minus compartment coaches of course, but they're all in there.) Also American coaches generally have the doors at the ends, even if they're local trains. :wink:
planetmaker wrote:Technically, I'd try to detect the 2ccTS and overwrite its wagons via a grf override, if present. And supply them normally, if it's not present.
Yes, that would be a better way of doing it - much easier than trying to modify the 2CC set :mrgreen:

About the name, I was thinking: 2cc Wagons Expansion :?:

EDIT: YNM just suggested "2CC Wagons Expansion pack" (Yes I saw that :mrgreen: )
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Purno » 21 Dec 2012 14:34

Well, at least we all agree the name should start with "2cc", which nicely alphabetically orders it together with the 2ccSet :P
planetmaker wrote:"Expanded wagons" sounds a bit funky to me, like if I take the compressor and inflate the wagons to their real size ;-)
Agreed.
Voyager One wrote:OK, this is something I agree with. Should be something like "2CCTrainset - Expanded Wagons", IMH(umble)O.
Too long.
I'd call it "2cc Extra Wagons" or "2cc Wagons add-on"
What about a simple "2cc Wagonset", would be nicely in line with "2cc Trainset". And it's short, and to-the-point :P
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Pyoro » 21 Dec 2012 14:53

To appeal to a new, younger audience I'd recommend something like 2cc Xtremely Xpanded wagonZ Z. Or 2ccXXZ² for short.

More importantly, great selection of wagons. Now if I could only come to therms with that particular drawing style ...gnnngnngng ... not working :\

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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Transportman » 21 Dec 2012 17:23

Emperor Jake wrote:I attempted to take over the 2CC trainset's code, but I couldn't wrap my head around the convoluted mess of NFO and compile scripts.
Why not completely recode the trainset? Or is that just too much work for too little gain?
- Costs haven't been done yet, all wagons are free for now :P
Everybody loves free stuff :p

On the coaches: A bit too much gray in general, but it looks less than the previous time I looked (and nothing changed since then), so maybe it is something that requires some getting used to... I also have the feeling some are (almost) the same. For example the Amfleet and Horizon Regional coaches are almost the same (only bottom seems different), and the Eurofirma Intercity and UIC-Z Regional look the same to me. This is just based on your screenshot, so maybe ingame the difference is larger.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 21 Dec 2012 17:48

planetmaker wrote:"Expanded wagons" sounds a bit funky to me, like if I take the compressor and inflate the wagons to their real size
Hahahahahaha! You're right. :lol:
---
planetmaker wrote:I'd call it "2cc Extra Wagons" or "2cc Wagons add-on"
Much better. :D
Purno wrote:What about a simple "2cc Wagonset
Also nice.
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dasy2k1 wrote:Just a sprite hint, wouldn't regional and local coaches normally have double doors at 1/3 and 2/3 rather than single doors by the vestibule ends like express coaches
I've made them ALL based on real coaches except those 5 at the bottom right which are supposed to be futuristic and are "invented". Yet, those are also inspired by some modern coaches.

You have to blame the real builders for door positioning. :lol:
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Pyoro wrote:Now if I could only come to therms with that particular drawing style ...gnnngnngng ... not working :\
Then I suggest you to avoid the 2ccTrainset as well... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Transportman wrote:On the coaches: A bit too much gray in general, but it looks less than the previous time I looked (and nothing changed since then), so maybe it is something that requires some getting used to... I also have the feeling some are (almost) the same. For example the Amfleet and Horizon Regional coaches are almost the same (only bottom seems different), and the Eurofirma Intercity and UIC-Z Regional look the same to me. This is just based on your screenshot, so maybe ingame the difference is larger.
I made them, I should explain.

Too much gray - IRL no, the most common color on many many coaches is the white. I wasn't able to take i.e. the nice yellow Dutch coaches as a reference for the Eurofima coach, I had to take a kind of "European" middle-ground, sorry.

Some look very alike - They simply do IRL. I played with different positioning of CCs but that's all I could make in a scale so small. I.e. Amfleet and Horizon, 99% similar IRL.

IMPORTANT for all who don't know it yet:
There is a special feature for each coach. EVERY SINGLE OF THEM COMES IN 4 DIFFERENT VARIANTS (should be semi-randomized in-game during purchase).

I.e. see Eurofima coach sprites below... AFAIK the idea, 70-80% of coaches should be the first set of sprites, the remaining "chance" should give you one of the remaining three variants.
IC.PNG
IC.PNG (19.25 KiB) Viewed 6795 times
Regional.PNG
Regional.PNG (19.51 KiB) Viewed 6795 times
Local.PNG
Local.PNG (18.65 KiB) Viewed 6795 times
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One more thing, Jake. I know it's a minor thing for now but you should name all coaches as written in my sprite files. Those are supposed to be "common" names used in all countries.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 23 Dec 2012 04:43

Hmm, I think we can settle on 2cc Wagon Set 8)

Anyway, I've been thinking of features to include:
- Long distance wagons will have slower cargo decay rates
- I will introduce separate sleeper variants for some wagons which will feature reduced capacity but slower cargo decay rates

But before I get into too many details, i think I'll try to tackle the freight wagons. :mrgreen:


Another thing I've wanted to talk about: I've found that although Voyager put some nice variety into the sprites, some of them are too different, causing mismatched looking trains/ I've reduced some of these situations by separating wagons into two or three different styled depending on date built, but I plan to turn this into a livery refit. (including the sleeper variants) For other situations I will probably end up tweaking the sprites to match better (mostly this will just be swapping colours)

Or I'm probably just too picky :mrgreen:
Transportman wrote:
Emperor Jake wrote:I attempted to take over the 2CC trainset's code, but I couldn't wrap my head around the convoluted mess of NFO and compile scripts.
Why not completely recode the trainset? Or is that just too much work for too little gain?
Yes. The 2cc trainset has a very nice system set up for engines and MUs that makes it really easy to add stuff. The wagons are a different story :wink:
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Purno » 23 Dec 2012 07:51

Emperor Jake wrote:Hmm, I think we can settle on 2cc Wagon Set 8)
Cool. Could we rename the topic title? :)
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 23 Dec 2012 09:37

Emperor Jake wrote:I've found that although Voyager put some nice variety into the sprites, some of them are too different, causing mismatched looking trains
This is intentional. It "should" be illogical to have (and make) trains combining European-style wagons and American-style wagons and get a "nicely matched train". As far as I've understood DJ's wishes, we are supposed to represent world trains in a "most realistically way possible within limitations of 2CCs and OTTD scale". Therefore, I went for intentionally mismatching some styles which are basically "incompatible" from IRL.

I.e. adding and old "steel 3-axle coach" to a train with Eurofima coaches must result in a "mismatch". OTOH, Eurofima and UIC-X coaches are very similar and there is very little mismatch if combining those two.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 23 Dec 2012 09:45

I was talking about mismatches between the same carriages, notably the heavyweight coaches and some of the modern high speed coaches.
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 23 Dec 2012 11:35

How can you say that heavyweight and modern hi-speed coaches are the same? Heavyweights are american-based, modern hi-speeds are Euro-based! :wink: They shouldn't even be in the exact same time period IIRC. :)

EDIT: Just checked something - "Heavyweights" are American from the 1950s or 1960s. "Modern hi-speeds" are European from 1990s or 2000s. :wink:
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Re: Expanded Wagon Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 23 Dec 2012 11:53

Nonono, you misunderstand me. I was trying to say, when I build a train entirely out of (for example) heavyweight coaches, the variation between the coaches causes a mismatched looking train. This happens with a few types of coaches, but with most of them it is fine, but a few just look a little too mismatched (such as the heavyweights seen here)

I'm not complaining, I just wanted to say I would be doing a few minor tweaks to the sprites to make them even better :wink:
Grondworth Falls Transport, 2201-11-22.png
Grondworth Falls Transport, 2201-11-22.png (77.34 KiB) Viewed 6606 times
Oh, and I was also thinking of getting some Dutch wagon sprites and 2cc-izing them for this set - I especially like the CityNightLine sleepers and some of the old freight wagons with brake houses.
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Re: 2CC Wagon Set

Post by Voyager One » 23 Dec 2012 13:37

Emperor Jake wrote:Nonono, you misunderstand me. I was trying to say, when I build a train entirely out of (for example) heavyweight coaches, the variation between the coaches causes a mismatched looking train.
A-HA! Got it now. That might be true, TBH I'm not entirely sure I matched ALL of them.
Emperor Jake wrote:CityNightLine sleepers and some of the old freight wagons with brake houses.
Consider it done. I'll send you these sprites by next weekend for sure.
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