NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

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NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by kamnet »

Another neat idea I toyed with in my head today while commuting, in case anybody wants to take it up.

A school system is clearly lacking in OpenTTD, which could more effectively utilize buses. New school buses could be drawn, and utilized by by an AI which either builds NewObject buildings, or implements an entire new industry with students (not pax or tourists). Industry could establish a percentage of the population wants to go to a nearby school in the area (10%?). Only such school building industries will accept students.

How many schools? What types? What size? An idea on that:

For the first 2500 in population, build one 1x1 primary/elementary school.
For every 5000 in population, build one 1x2 primary school.
For every 2500 after that, build an additional 1x2 primary school.
For every 5000 above the first 5000, build one 2x2 secondary/high school.
For every 25,000, build a 3x3 university.

Additional NewObjects will allow one to build out a school campus/complex including administrative buildings, libraries, labs, parks, paths, parking lots, stadiums and athletic facilities.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by planetmaker »

Shouldn't that rather be simply implemented as a house set. Or maybe rather as an add-on for a house set (house sets work well in parallel)? Going via industries or NewObjects (which don't even accept or supply anything) sounds to me like the wrong way...

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by PikkaBird »

Yep, schools as newhouses, about all we need. All the rest of it is massive backend for an end result that seems almost indistinguishable from moving passengers around as usual.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by FooBar »

Adding a new cargo 'students' seems a bad idea to me. It basically means that students are not passengers (which they in fact are) and that you need a complete separate infrastructure next to your regular passenger transportation services to move them about. The same issue tourists have.

In most countries students use the regular public transportation services, or no public transportation at all.

Some yellow American school busses would be cool in a vehicle set though. Combined with this schools as newhouses idea they make perfect sense, not just for an AI, but also for yourself as player.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by planetmaker »

FooBar wrote:Adding a new cargo 'students' seems a bad idea to me. It basically means that students are not passengers (which they in fact are) and that you need a complete separate infrastructure next to your regular passenger transportation services to move them about. The same issue tourists have.
They don't, if you play a nightly OpenTTD and use vehicle sets which supports auto-refit in stations for busses, trams, trains, planes and ships ;-)

(yeah, I like those who go to school by plane :-P )

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by FooBar »

Well, yes and no.

Yes, autorefit helps a lot. But no, you're still not able to carry passengers and students (and tourists) at the same time in the same vehicle (think especially 'bus' here).

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Timmaexx »

Would it be possible to implement sub-classes to passengers? Like students, tourists, ...

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Supercheese »

Timmaexx wrote:Would it be possible to implement sub-classes to passengers? Like students, tourists, ...
That's sort of the way it is now. Passengers and tourists are both under the PASSENGERS cargo class. http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NM ... go_classes
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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by kamnet »

FooBar wrote:Adding a new cargo 'students' seems a bad idea to me. It basically means that students are not passengers (which they in fact are) and that you need a complete separate infrastructure next to your regular passenger transportation services to move them about. The same issue tourists have.
Supercheese wrote:
Timmaexx wrote:Would it be possible to implement sub-classes to passengers? Like students, tourists, ...
That's sort of the way it is now. Passengers and tourists are both under the PASSENGERS cargo class. http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NM ... go_classes
The reason I suggested students a a passenger sub-class is because I wouldn't want to see CD or YACD decide that 1000 passengers at one stop need to go to a 1x1 school building.
planetmaker wrote:Shouldn't that rather be simply implemented as a house set. Or maybe rather as an add-on for a house set (house sets work well in parallel)? Going via industries or NewObjects (which don't even accept or supply anything) sounds to me like the wrong way...
Also the reason why I suggested school buildings as an industry, much like tourist industries I would want it to only be able to accept students and then generate those numbers back, rather than have any random passenger go to and from those stops.

It could be implemented as a house set, but this then takes the building of these facilities out of the hands of the player and makes it exclusive to the town. Which, I suppose, is quite realistic, but as a player I'd like the option to be able to build these myself. As an industry, I can then choose to either let the town place it, or I can pony up the money and fund it myself at a location I find pleasing.

The reasoning behind the suggestion of a NewObjects set is if there wasn't agreement on implementing it as an Industry. The NewObject can be bundled with the AI. So, instead of the game itself deciding where and when to place these objects, and deal with the transporting of students, an AI could do that. NewObjects can also be used by the player to build suplemental buildings that the game itself would not build (and probably should not; for example, I wouldn't want to see the game build a stadium and decide that is a school).
FooBar wrote:In most countries students use the regular public transportation services, or no public transportation at all. Some yellow American school busses would be cool in a vehicle set though. Combined with this schools as newhouses idea they make perfect sense, not just for an AI, but also for yourself as player.
True, but we're playing a game where we're in the business of building public and private transportation services. :wink:

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by silent_buster »

That was a great Idea mister.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Zhall »

Another idea.

Subsidize laptop production to the LOWEST BIDDER.

Give out said laptops.

Online/homeschooling, generations of people have no social skills, everybod.. well just the corporations.. win.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by ChillCore »

FooBar wrote: Yes, autorefit helps a lot. But no, you're still not able to carry passengers and students (and tourists) at the same time in the same vehicle (think especially 'bus' here).
Technically you can/could carry two different cargos in the same vehicle at the same time ... Just have a looksie where (default) airplanes store their mail. ;)

If it would be wise to do that is another matter ... it might make sense to transport both passengers and students (or tourists) in the same bus; for other cargos I am not so sure as it could cause all kinds of confusion.

Note:
I have not considered autorefitting in my above statement; not sure how that would need to be handled.
Read:
- Which one of the two capacities would be refitted to something else?
- How to handle the choice in the gui if it were possible to choose?




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Edit: spelling
Last edited by ChillCore on 18 Dec 2011 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Supercheese »

In UKRS2, there is a DMU that can carry both passengers and mail in the same single-unit. I've not tried refitting to tourists, but if you refit the whole thing to an express cargo (say, goods), then the way it's coded, the unit now carries only goods. If you refit back to passengers, however, it then carries passengers and goods, rather than passengers and mail (default when built). So you can swap the second cargo slot out for any express cargo in that fashion.
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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by ChillCore »

That I did not know, thank you for explaining Supercheese.

From your decription refitting works anything but in a logical manner with two cargotypes in a single vehicle.
If I undestood corretly, you need to first refit to mail and then to passengers to get back to the original state ... highly confusing to say the least.
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Eddi »

if you use that method then you can make an MU which refits to partial passengers/tourists, but then you have to either sacrifice full passengers, or full tourists. also, autorefit may totally screw up your system.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Supercheese »

ChillCore wrote:If I undestood corretly, you need to first refit to mail and then to passengers to get back to the original state ... highly confusing to say the least.
That is indeed correct. (My testing was from the previous UKRS version, but I doubt things have changed since then.)
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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by PikkaBird »

ChillCore wrote:Technically you can/could carry two different cargos in the same vehicle at the same time ... Just have a looksie where (default) airplanes store their mail. ;)
Nope.

Technically the aircraft carry their mail in a second vehicle, as does the Met Cam DMU in UKRS2.

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Kogut »

PikkaBird wrote:Technically the aircraft carry their mail in a second vehicle
In the shadow?
Correct me If I am wrong - PM me if my English is bad
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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by Zhall »

So thats why UPS smashes all my packages!

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Re: NewObject/Industry/Vehicle/AI Idea: School system

Post by ChillCore »

PikkaBird wrote:
ChillCore wrote: Technically you can/could carry two different cargos in the same vehicle at the same time ... Just have a looksie where (default) airplanes store their mail. ;)
Nope.

Technically the aircraft carry their mail in a second vehicle, as does the Met Cam DMU in UKRS2.
you are ofcourse correct but as far as 'normal' players are concerned they both are part of one and the same vehicle ... one can not exist without the other.
I'll try to be more precise in the future ... especially when using the word technically :)

Kogut wrote: In the shadow?
Correct.
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