Japan Set Development

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 21 Aug 2006 22:36

Aegir wrote:Pretty much, the deal is, that yes, we can use Zimmlocks sprites from TTRSv3, but we can't make any releases before he does.

Which is fair enough, releasing modified versions of his works before he's even released it is a bit rough.

And thanks for the sprites, Toni!

You're welcome. And a release of TTRSv3 before ours is more than just fair! It would be absolutely utterly rude to release our adjustments first.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 21 Aug 2006 22:54

Ah, yes, Ok. Sorry to be a w***.

Needless to say, those are some pretty slick looking buildings.

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 21 Aug 2006 23:11

Sure, no problemo

Ty anyway for the buildings compliment.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 22 Aug 2006 09:46

Oh, and to answer you Sanchimaru, thanks for the suggestions with the buildings, I'll get to work on them when I can (I'm without a computer at the moment, stealing computers all over the place until my laptop gets back from warranty repairs). Those houses look much nicer, and I'll stick those tracks aside and prepare them for coding at a later date.

About the company colour blue, to be honest, I do not like the effect that it produces, to me it seems that making seperate sprites for certain colour variations would be much better, ofcourse that takes more work, but I think the results are much nicer.

And you mentioned that one of the flats was suffering from the flashing colours problem? I personally find that odd, because I have not been able to see that in-game, I tested the buildings .grf extensively before releasing and during development. I'll go back through it with a fine comb and find out what has gone amiss.

HaroldV · Post by **HaroldV** » 22 Aug 2006 10:45

Been mucking about with a JapanSet game for a while now, and having tried the latest grfs for a bit I thought I'd offer some observations and opinions:

Landscape:
I like the new "rough ground" and "rocks" tiles particularly. They work well with the new colouring of the basic land tiles. Trkfoundations are good too. Trees remain too garish yet "flat" (2-D) for my tastes - the combination makes them look "pasted on" to the landscape in a rather unnatural and distracting way. They're still being worked on aren't they? Specificlly it's the red tree and the lighter-pink one that really don't look right, although some of the darker green ones are also a bit flat (compared to TTDX's default trees which have more dark shading around the edges which gives them a rounded, deeper look). NB: The "Plant trees" panel is borked too: it doesn't show all tree options, but rather repeats some twice.

Buildings & Roads:
Absolutely bloody marvellous. I didn't like the old roads much, but the new version is excellent, and I hope these roads will be made fully integrated into newbridges, etc, before too long (and the matching level crossings into the train grf soon too!). Buildings are fantastic. Only thing I thought odd was a default-style Bank popping up, but maybe Banks haven't been touched yet? (Haven't checked)

Tunnel Entrances (enhanced tunnels) :
Too be completely honest I think they don't work very well. They are graphically so "busy": concrete-grey base with pinkish/brown stone/brick sides, darker asphalt-grey pavement (I assume it's pavement), pink and yellow guardrails. They can look fine in built-up areas, but as the entrance to every darn rail-tunnel on the map, it's too much. Frankly, they look silly in the countryside. The (relatively) dull simplicity of the "basetunnels.grf" is preferable in style, imho.

Random thoughts concerning trains:

- I find it odd that I can transport Livestock faster than Grain. (Tenderised steaks?

) Another option for Grain, indeed, a few more wagon options for some freight types (other than Goods, which are well catered for) would be welcome.

- The lime-green tarpulin (?) over Steel CHIKI10s is pretty ugly. I assume it is accurate, but I miss the old steel coils of the CHIKI300s. Really, it's not so much the ugliness, but the fact that the tarpulin graphics mean it no longer looks like Steel being transported, and as the Wood refit is also bright green, the two cargo types aren't particularly distinct from each other. Any chance of more Steel graphics options being added?

- The M250EMU is the coolest thing on the planet. Ever.

- Spacing between mail & passenger carriage overrides in | views (in 'MUs) seems inconsistent. Some are less closely "attached" in that view than others, even when other views ( / _ \ ) seems consistent. It's odd to see one 'MU turn a corner and have its carriages suddenly look very loose, when another 'MU remains taut in its arrangement. I didn't note which particular 'MU overrides suffered from this, sorry. It was just something that stood out.

- The DD51 oversmokes. That is, because of its ratio of relatively low TE to relatively high HP, it generates a constant diesel plume, even though it should only do so when drawing on power. Not necessarily a problem (assuming it's stats are accurate, which I do, and you want to keep them so, which I also do) but it makes for one awfully dirty-looking diesel - which stands out from everything else in the set.
(If none of this makes sense see here and here.)

- The top headlight of the DF200 looks in off-center in / and \ views, probably because the curvature of the front of the loco is not clear. Suggest either centering it and making the front generally "squarer" or leave it where it is and using different colours to make curvature clear.

For all my (usual) nitpicking though, I have to say I really like this set. It's got quite a unique feel, and it's a lot of fun. So, congrats to all the creators and contributors ... and keep up the good work.

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 22 Aug 2006 12:36

HaroldV wrote:-- Spacing between mail & passenger carriage overrides in | views (in 'MUs) seems inconsistent. Some are less closely "attached" in that view than others, even when other views ( / _ \ ) seems consistent. It's odd to see one 'MU turn a corner and have its carriages suddenly look very loose, when another 'MU remains taut in its arrangement. I didn't note which particular 'MU overrides suffered from this, sorry. It was just something that stood out.

The problem (or advantage, whatever) with Japanese MU is that they usually don't have a mail car in their consistent. Only in pre-war and some early post-war MU there were some articulated mail cars:

But these proved not to be very succesfull when traffic became heavier. So nowadays JR runs mail-exclusive trains without mixing with passenger traffic. This was done already in pre-war days. Mail-passenger train were mainly run on branchlines. Express mail was occasionally run on mainlines (hence the 'pumpkin' livery of some mail MU)

I think is will be on my list as well... Create new mail vans for the MU series wich ran mail services in real-life. (80-series, the KIHA66 has already fine sprites IMO)

Having mail cars in your trains is realistic, but only of you do it in a correct way. Hauled trains can be mixed, although this has become a rarity today.

HaroldV · Post by **HaroldV** » 22 Aug 2006 13:30

I'm not sure that fully explains the discrepancies. Note I'm not talking about the spacing between a mail carriage and a passenger carriage within an 'MU, but the spacing of all carriages of the 'MU. Some 'MU's gaps in | view are huge, some smaller, some don't have gaps at all. The latter seems correct when the entire 'MU is supposed to be one slick concertina. But the others don't match up with what is suggested in other views (they look somewhat wrong). The largest-gapped ones simply look daft (and definately wrong).

Some examples to clarify:

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 22 Aug 2006 13:40

Hm, I can't answer that... Those aren't my sprites.

HaroldV · Post by **HaroldV** » 22 Aug 2006 13:48

Heh, sorry I wasn't clearer in my initial post. Actually, just looking at it now, that right-hand one (I forget the name anyready) also looks a little odd because it has *nothing* to mark the individual carriages at all - it's like one long fuselage. Oh well.

The others in the screenshot (just a random selection of 'MUs), in other views, don't look anything like as seperated as they do in the | view. That was basically the point I was struggling to make.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 22 Aug 2006 21:43

HaroldV wrote: Tunnel Entrances (enhanced tunnels) :
Too be completely honest I think they don't work very well. They are graphically so "busy": concrete-grey base with pinkish/brown stone/brick sides, darker asphalt-grey pavement (I assume it's pavement), pink and yellow guardrails. They can look fine in built-up areas, but as the entrance to every darn rail-tunnel on the map, it's too much. Frankly, they look silly in the countryside.

My opinion exactly, alas. Is there any foreseeable possibility of enhanced tunnels being able to change the tunnel portal based on whether or not there's a track built over the top of it? Someday perhaps?

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 22 Aug 2006 23:25

Harold, thanks a lot for your comments! I'm glad (and proud!) that you like the set and that you help us improving it. You have exposed your points very well, let's see what can we do:

The trees: they are a very early work, and they have been untouched in quite a while. Indeed, there is too much to improve, and we have to add some new ones too, and snowy versions. They are in my to-do list.

The roads: I'm quite proud myself of them

but still some details here and there have to be added (some curves don't look 100% right, etc.)

The banks: actually we have sprites for the banks... but in the first versions, they were mesed (worked as accept only industry) and finally they don't seem to have made it to the GRF...
Aegir: can you put them in? it's just sprites replacement, no need to add new industry features for the moment.

I see what you mean about the tunnels, I'll see forward make some changes to them and make them look simpler.

chiki10: you kept me wondering what the lime green thing would be... I was thinking of some food-containers, which are lime. Then I realized: the flatcar Chiki10 has CC in the full-loaded states, simulating a net or a fabric covering the cargo. It's lime because that was your CC; but you can set your freight colors to something else less offensive to the eye

MUs: many of them were halfway done by their respective artists and then retouched by others several times. I did some work on them to make them fit better the game, but they have remained untouched in quite a while now.
I think that some fresh sprites would be nice for some of them. I hope I can count on Toni to help with this

Glad to hear your thoughts about the set! Please keep them coming!

Aegir: I see what you mean about the CC in the stadium. In that case, the basic colors should be fine: red, blue, green, yellow.
The flashing red parts are in the panels of the hirata flats construction stage, I'm not sure, facing which direction...

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 23 Aug 2006 08:13

Ahh, construction stages, right, I'll get right onto it... (Comandeered another comptuer in the house, I've got no usable ones left in my room apart from my server, which is in the wardrobe

).

HaroldV · Post by **HaroldV** » 23 Aug 2006 09:54

Sanchimaru (et al),

Since discovering the Patch I've always wanted to contribute something to the game and community, but as the only talent I have is for criticism, all you hard-working (real) contributors get from me is nitpicking ... so I'm very glad you have found my comments and observations of some use.

Only further clarifications to offer at this point are ...

re: CHIKI10 - Doh! I should've checked that. I'll reiterate though that "ugly" in itself is fine by me, really, and it was the "but it just doesn't look like that train is carrying Steel anymore!" (and disambiguation from Wood cargoes) that concerned me. The tarpulin/net graphics (regardless of company colour) look kinda ... lumpy, soft ... and not quite big/tall/bulky enough considering the actual volume/weight of steel carried on the wagon. I guess I'd just like some option or tweak so that later steel transports look more clearly like Steel.

re: 'MUs - I really rather like almost all of the existing graphics (there's some remarkable shading on some 'MUs, of a kind I don't recall ever seeing before). It's just the excessive "gappage" in that one particular view that annoys the heck out of me. There's a lot of classy graphical work on show in this set, which makes this oddity or lack of polish very noticeable, and rather spoils the overall effect. That's all.

Post by **WWTBAM** » 23 Aug 2006 10:07

i think its they arent 32px scale.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 23 Aug 2006 11:45

Any possibility of making the next version of the trains grf compatible with newcargoes? I'd love to play this game w/the UKRS until the Japanset industries come out

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 23 Aug 2006 12:04

Note to all: Due quite some pressure from above (University, GF) I'm forced to cut down on projects...

It's only for the best I guess. My career as a student must be pushed forward by all means, so that means I can't produce sprites as fast as before... I'll be happy to retouch some sprites, since that doesn't require such an ammount of time as designing them myself.

Your understanding please...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 25 Aug 2006 02:45

We are very glad to have whatever help you are able to give, as long as you don't disappear completely.

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 25 Aug 2006 12:54

krtaylor wrote:We are very glad to have whatever help you are able to give, as long as you don't disappear completely.

Will do! I hope to have some time the coming weeks...

HaroldV · Post by **HaroldV** » 28 Aug 2006 08:24

A graphical oddity.

The bottom front of the EF65 flickers dark when crossing the edge of a trackfoundations tile (using the Japan landscape grf). I've only noticed it in the view shown below, but I don't have any EF65s running over trackfoundation tiles in any other direction.

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 28 Aug 2006 16:04

only that train, and only in that direction, and only when going over tracks on a foundation? that's a graphical oddity indeed...

would it be possible that it does that for all trains on a foundation in that direction, but that you don't notice because only this train has a light bottom railing?

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