Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

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orudge
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by orudge »

JamieLei wrote:Eeek - Very minute trace amounts of radiation from Fukushima found in Britain and the rest of Europe. Scary.
Scary? Not really. You yourself said "very minute trace amounts". The media just likes to cause a panic... I'm probably exposed to more radiation by virtue of living near, and regularly visiting, Aberdeen!

Pleasingly, I did see an article yesterday (possibly on the BBC News) stating that a majority of people in the UK still favour new nuclear plants here. It would be complete foolishness for us to discount safe, modern, efficient nuclear plants just because of problems with a 40-year-old design on the other side of the world (that performed more than admirably considering everything that happened, too).
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by John »

orudge wrote:
JamieLei wrote:Eeek - Very minute trace amounts of radiation from Fukushima found in Britain and the rest of Europe. Scary.
Scary? Not really. You yourself said "very minute trace amounts". The media just likes to cause a panic... I'm probably exposed to more radiation by virtue of living near, and regularly visiting, Aberdeen!
Actually you would be exposed to more radiation just by "living".

The radiation that occurs naturally inside your own body, purely from potassium-40, is 4000 Becquerel (Bq).

What they measured above Glasgow is 300 micro-Bq, or 0.0003 Bq. Above Oxford, it was 0.000011Bq.

So in Glasgow, thats 13million times more radiation from within your own body than what the wind brought over from Japan. In Oxford, its 300million. Purely compared to what goes on naturally inside your body! From 1 element!


Also, speaking of backgroun radiation in the UK
Wikipedia wrote: Some of these areas, including Cornwall and Aberdeenshire in the United Kingdom have high enough natural radiation levels that nuclear licensed sites cannot be built there — the sites would already exceed legal radiation limits before they opened, and the natural topsoil and rock would all have to be disposed of as low-level nuclear waste.

Source: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scdiroff/ld ... nBody.html
http://www.hpa.org.uk/NewsCentre/Nation ... Fukushima/


And have another quote about the 'dangers' of nuclear power (from wikipedia, cited):
Wikipedia wrote:Radioactive materials previously buried underground in coal deposits are released as fly ash or, if fly ash is captured, may be incorporated into concrete manufactured with fly ash. Radioactive materials are also released in gaseous emissions. The United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation estimates that per gigawatt-year (GWea) of electrical energy produced by coal, using the current mix of technology throughout the world, the population impact is approximately 0.8 lethal cancers per plant-year distributed over the affected population. With 400 GW of coal-fired power plants in the world, this amounts to some 320 deaths per year.
320 deaths per year caused by radiation released by burning coal...
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by JamieLei »

I suppose. In the end, it's the fact that such radiation was artificially created, rather than natural. And also the fact that 東京電力 (Tepco) haven't exactly been that honest about anything. It's difficult to downplay the situation when they're giving out bottles of water to mothers with babies in Tokyo, you can't buy water at all in Kyoto any more, and the TV is still showing 50% "be nice to people" adverts that suddenly appeared after the earthquake.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by John »

JamieLei wrote:I suppose. In the end, it's the fact that such radiation was artificially created, rather than natural.
Indeed - and yet deaths from car accidents (all artificial) are so acceptable in today's society. The human perception of risk is truly odd.
And also the fact that 東京電力 (Tepco) haven't exactly been that honest about anything. It's difficult to downplay the situation when they're giving out bottles of water to mothers with babies in Tokyo, you can't buy water at all in Kyoto any more...
Yep - I don't think anyone will attempt to defend Tepco's reporting. The problem is you need the systems inplace before anything happens - you can't easily add them later.
And ignorance about radiation and the scaremongering caused by the media has made this a whole lot worse. The water has only been deemed unsafe for babies (so those that use formula). Unfortunately, as a result almost everyone has stopped using the water for anything. Hell - tourists in countries with serious waterborne diseases use tap water for more 'things' than some people in Tokyo/Kyoto are now.

I was curious as to what the standard levels of radiation were in Cornish tap water compared with the dangerous peak that occurred in Tokyo. Maybe someone else will have more luck finding values on the internet?
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by rdrdrdrd »

the reason most people are irrationally afraid of radiation is they dont understand it, they think Meltdown = Atomic bomb, and they dont understand how small some of the radiation readings actually are, i heard there was something like 3 times the radiation as found in Tokyo in bananas, but now one bans their import
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by JamieLei »

It's not really so much what is happening now, it's fear of what might happen. While everyone else back home was a nice comfy 6,000+ miles away, we were glued to the news in case it got worse. And day by day, it did. Of course, none of us, even if we lived in Tokyo would be afraid of really drinking the tap water. But none of us a week ago would have even thought that the authorities would issue a warning that babies shouldn't drink the tap water. The optimism has sadly faded a bit, and although things are perfectly safe now, the reactors still haven't been cooled down safely like we thought they must have been able to do by now.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Kevo00 »

Of course, anyone who saw the front cover of today's Daily Sexpress would have seen a perfectly non-alarmist headline. http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/237584

If the Japanese think 'ASeeee' is annoying (I admit it could be after every single advert), they should try a few 'Go Compares' for size.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by John »

Just saw this on the news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/13029861.stm

I think it would be great.

Currently my mum is travelling around Japan (including the north-east), and writing a blog on it. My dad will be joining her shortly for a few days.

I just read this in one of my mums posts, and thought I would share:
At Kyoto station I’m slightly early for my shinkansen train to Osaka. With my Japan Rail Pass, I’m not allowed to take one kind of shinkansen, the super express Nozomi. I watch mesmerised as a succession of Nozomi trains come in, with their long snouts, like some sleek animal. They are all punctual to the minute. It’s quite a contrast to Britain where train time tables are more an expression of hope than anything else.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by JamieLei »

Lol - the concept of a taking a Shinkansen from Kyoto to Osaka! Which is more of a statement of a having a Rail Pass than anything since it takes longer to get into Osaka Station by Shinkansen than it does by regular-train (Shinkansen goes to Shin-Osaka in the outskirts)!

But yes - it would be fantastic! Shame that Ishihara is heading the bid - half of Japan is in outrage that he got reelected..
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Zhall »

Being a resident in Oregon, A western us coastal state, i can only wonder when the ring of fire will unleash it's fury of bull $#!@ over here on our turf.

Our schools aren't gonna make it, seeing as how they make students enter their own casket (desk) during an earthquake drill.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by michael blunck »

Voyager One wrote: And as Michael thought, INES scale level raised 5... Sh**.
Well, yesterday NISA (Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency) eventually raised it to "7" on the INES scale, on a par now with the Chernobyl disaster.

Still, with a distribution scheme largely different to Chernobyl, the Fukushima region being densely populated and with a very much larger radioactive inventory on-site, the Japanese government should urgently expand the evacuation zone, at least for pregnant women and young children.

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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by SquireJames »

Sapphire united wrote:Being a resident in Oregon, A western us coastal state, i can only wonder when the ring of fire will unleash it's fury of bull $#!@ over here on our turf.

Our schools aren't gonna make it, seeing as how they make students enter their own casket (desk) during an earthquake drill.
Reminds me of those old "Duck and Cover" films. Because, of course, hiding under a flimsy desk made from quarter inch plywood made by the company who would provide them to the school cheapest is TOTALLY going to make a difference when a 15mt Thermo-Nuclear Bomb goes off 2 miles away....
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by John »

michael blunck wrote: Well, yesterday NISA (Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency) eventually raised it to "7" on the INES scale, on a par now with the Chernobyl disaster.
Which is very very surprising - it's not even close to Chernobyl in terms of severity. It's not even close to the single level 6 accident or several level 5 ones.

I can't help but think that this isn't the last we have heard of the INES scale for this incident. I doubt many scientists will be happy that this is being rated worse then the level 6 incident that is estimated to have caused 200 deaths through cancer. (With another study suggesting the figure is 8000 in the 32 years since the accident).


Just for clarification - each reactor is being rated as an INES 5 incident, and all combined are being rated as a 7.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by orudge »

JamieLei wrote:Lol - the concept of a taking a Shinkansen from Kyoto to Osaka!
I just looked up the distance between the two on Google Maps, and was surprised to find that Google defaults to public transport when you ask for directions in Japan. You discover something new every day.
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Voyager One »

michael blunck wrote:
Voyager One wrote: And as Michael thought, INES scale level raised 5... Sh**.
Well, yesterday NISA (Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency) eventually raised it to "7" on the INES scale, on a par now with the Chernobyl disaster.
Still, with a distribution scheme largely different to Chernobyl, the Fukushima region being densely populated and with a very much larger radioactive inventory on-site, the Japanese government should urgently expand the evacuation zone, at least for pregnant women and young children.
I'm actually surprised that they haven't done it before. Chernobyl was definitely worse in the aspect of magnitude but as you've said - highly populated areas, more different radioactive materials, 4 damaged reactors compared to 1... Unfortunately, it all adds to that cover-up idea. Shame...
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Kamikazi spoon »

Japan raises the severity rating of its nuclear crisis to the highest level, but says radiation leakage is a tenth of that from the 1986 Chernobyl disaster.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13045341

Now radiation in Japan is as bad as Chernobyl as crisis level is raised to 7 for only the second time in history
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... story.html

Spot the difference?
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Zhall »

SquireJames wrote:
Sapphire united wrote:Being a resident in Oregon, A western us coastal state, i can only wonder when the ring of fire will unleash it's fury of bull $#!@ over here on our turf.

Our schools aren't gonna make it, seeing as how they make students enter their own casket (desk) during an earthquake drill.
Reminds me of those old "Duck and Cover" films. Because, of course, hiding under a flimsy desk made from quarter inch plywood made by the company who would provide them to the school cheapest is TOTALLY going to make a difference when a 15mt Thermo-Nuclear Bomb goes off 2 miles away....
Xacto-ly :D
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Kjell Bjarne »

I wonder what conclusion Japan will draw of the nuclear disaster. Will they change to less dangerous methods of producing electricity? I cant found something serious on that at the net.
IMHO it would be clever to build geothermal power plants there.
Is that a topic japanes discuss nowadays?

The Philippines got a similar geophysical situation like Japan and they produce 30 % of their electric power by geothermal power plants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal ... _the_world
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Geo Ghost »

The problem with geothermal power plants (from memory of studying Geography 4 years ago), is that they are quite expensive to build and run but also they can only be built in certain areas. If Japan doesn't have the right area to have one, they can't build one. I think we all hope for better/greener/more efficient power but I do wonder at times if it's actually going to be possible at all to cope with the demands of the human race now - let alone the future! :?
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Re: Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

Post by Kjell Bjarne »

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Even the monkeys knows that it is very hot under the surface of Japan. :wink:
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