32-bit Experimental Graphics for OpenTTD 32bpp

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 12 Mar 2007 10:44

If we are going to be using 12.5 x 12.5 meter tiles, all my sprites are going to be at least 2 x 2 and a lot of them 4 x 4 and bigger.
Now that doesn't seem right to me somehow.
I thought we would move to 12,5 x 12,5 by splitting up the size of the current tiles, allowing for 4 sprites on 1 current tile.
If we keep it the way it is now, we'll have cities consisting of 4 or 5 realy huge buildings and nothing more...

brupje · Post by **brupje** » 12 Mar 2007 12:11

Alltaken wrote:
hard coded stuff can be changed

Why is that coded in the first place

dmh_mac wrote:If we are going to be using 12.5 x 12.5 meter tiles, all my sprites are going to be at least 2 x 2 and a lot of them 4 x 4 and bigger.
Now that doesn't seem right to me somehow.
I thought we would move to 12,5 x 12,5 by splitting up the size of the current tiles, allowing for 4 sprites on 1 current tile.
If we keep it the way it is now, we'll have cities consisting of 4 or 5 realy huge buildings and nothing more...

I think that cities as small as 100x100 meters shouldn't have this large buildings

Sergej_S · Post by **Sergej_S** » 12 Mar 2007 19:49

Specially for the readers of this theme!

I show a difference of the image of a landscape on the versions 8 and 32 bits.

The real copies of the screen are made of one file of preservation,
With a small difference in time, the moment is fixed
Emergency landing(planting) of the passenger airliner to small air station.

On the first screen - version 8-bit OpenTTD, is really used 163 unique colours.
On the second screen - version 32-bit OpenTTD 32bpp, is really used of 40 316 unique colours.

The Farm-stage 1-3 Zoom Landscape can be received under the direct references here:
http://lidars.narod.ru/Files/OpenTTD/Farm_123_Z.tar
The minimally necessary version - OpenTTD 32bpp 8942.

Graphics by Alltaken , New Zealand.

Sergej

Sellu · Post by **Sellu** » 12 Mar 2007 23:33

Great, will you make more angles available too, not just one sprite per every 45 degree?

athanasios · Post by **athanasios** » 13 Mar 2007 01:26

This question should be addressed to the developers not the artists.
Personal opinion: At least double.

Vehicles are drawn in Blender, are 3D and can have an angle you like, but code doesn't support this.

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 13 Mar 2007 03:41

Alltaken wrote:
brupje wrote:
Born Acorn wrote: The hardcoded maximum is 2x2, I believe.
why make a 3x3 blender template then
hard coded stuff can be changed

Not if you really want the developers to integrate the new graphics in the game...

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 13 Mar 2007 05:50

LordOfThePigs wrote: Not if you really want the developers to integrate the new graphics in the game...

I also made 85 ground tiles..... 19 are supported... what comes first, the code or the graphics? neither can exist without the other. so there is no true leader.

if we have a 3x3 graphic, then there is a chance a coder will code it. if we have a 2x2 space in the code, with no graphics for it then it is likely an artist will make art for it.

thats all.

Alltaken

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 13 Mar 2007 07:07

Alltaken wrote:what comes first, the code or the graphics? neither can exist without the other. so there is no true leader.

I think Sergej_s proved that the code came first... kind of...

So for now on, if you realistically want your graphics to end up in the game, I suggest sticking to what is required for the current implementation.

brupje · Post by **brupje** » 13 Mar 2007 08:31

LordOfThePigs wrote:
Alltaken wrote:what comes first, the code or the graphics? neither can exist without the other. so there is no true leader.
I think Sergej_s proved that the code came first... kind of...

So for now on, if you realistically want your graphics to end up in the game, I suggest sticking to what is required for the current implementation.

32bps wasn't supported when the first 3d models rolled out. If nobody would have made those, the code wouldn't be written either presummably.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 13 Mar 2007 18:08

Precisely. Alltaken just kind of came along and started created models and tiles and things. The rest kind of happened.

The models unsupported will just go away and hide in the depths of hard drives until they can be used. The time spent on these could be used for graphics that could be used right now in the 32bpp branch.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 13 Mar 2007 18:49

Well actually Maudib (or some name similar) created a mockup image in Blender which got me all inspired to try and push things. I then started doing similar. that was a good few years ago now

But hey, we are on the way to something very cool here.

Sergej_S · Post by **Sergej_S** » 13 Mar 2007 19:57

athanasios wrote: OK, many things don't seem to work
Just a screenshot, as you requested from which I see that sprites aren't properly aligned possibly by Sergej_S (Not that I would do better.):

Dear Athanasios and other visitors of a forum!

Convincingly I ask to not do(make) such huge illustrations!
I then receive the spiteful letters from those people, which because of it can not read this theme!

There are some ways for this purpose:

1 - to reduce the size of the image up to the size 640 * 480 points
2 - to transform the image to 8-bit of colour

If it cannot be made for any reasons - it is necessary the size of the image to make more than 800 * 600 points, automatic archive in this case turns out which does not prevent other people to read the basic theme!

Yours faithfully to all readers of this letter!

Sergej.

Sergej_S · Post by **Sergej_S** » 13 Mar 2007 20:01

Specially for my friends and admirers from Canada!
(On today you 75 men)

I do not have map of city Ottawa!

I show simply snow northern field.

The Snow Zoom Landscape can be received under the direct references here:
http://lidars.narod.ru/Files/OpenTTD/Snow_Z.tar
The minimally necessary version - OpenTTD 32bpp 8942.

Graphics by Alltaken , New Zealand.

Sergej

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 13 Mar 2007 23:07

I'll try and get some Gridlines ASAP.

just a call for anyone who might have happened to have already created them or could automatically...... otherwise i think its a manual job.

Alltaken

athanasios · Post by **athanasios** » 13 Mar 2007 23:24

Sergej_S wrote: Dear Athanasios and other visitors of a forum!
Convincingly I ask to not do(make) such huge illustrations!
I then receive the spiteful letters from those people, which because of it can not read this theme!
There are some ways for this purpose:
1 - to reduce the size of the image up to the size 640 * 480 points
2 - to transform the image to 8-bit of colour
If it cannot be made for any reasons - it is necessary the size of the image to make more than 800 * 600 points, automatic archive in this case turns out which does not prevent other people to read the basic theme!
Sergej.

1. I didn't know other people had problems. I do not have any. Thread works correctly on me.
2. Alltaken asked for screenshot, I didn't put it just for me to enjoy.
3. Tiles are 256, and Alltaken asked to see how they look on slopes. So I could not make a smaller screenshot.
4. Not good idea to reduce to 8bit. We want to test tiles in 32bpp. Using jpg or other losy format spoils the image.

Have to consider priority of development even if a few people have problem of display. If many have problem of display, then tell me and I 'll post big screenshots zipped.
________

I don't mind about the snow tar, but PLEASE I urgently need the crashed plane tar

... Or is it a mock up?

TagDaze · Post by **TagDaze** » 13 Mar 2007 23:26

Sergej_S wrote:
athanasios wrote: Convincingly I ask to not do(make) such huge illustrations!
I then receive the spiteful letters from those people, which because of it can not read this theme!

There are some ways for this purpose:

1 - to reduce the size of the image up to the size 640 * 480 points
2 - to transform the image to 8-bit of colour

Sergej.

They're not modeled to be in the engine we're currently in, Sergej... The models don't fit because they're not supposed to be in right now. As much as your efforts to put it in-game right now are noble, they'll look like crap and off scale when they will.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 14 Mar 2007 05:20

come on guys. lets just take 10 seconds to think before replying to "provocatve" posts. thats any post which you don't agree with.

I think Sergej is saying that the width of the image is to big for side scrolling on small screens (i may be wrong). otherwise i don't understand what the problem is.

also JPg is fine. infact JPG is good. its a lossy format, but its designed for 24Bpp graphics, it is better than PNG for those graphics because the loss of quality is minimal (it is very bad for 8bpp graphics though). of course everyone has opinions, so it doesn't matter massively. but a 70Kb JPG will be increadibly close to a 250Kb PNG in visual quality (as 128Kbps MP3's are rather close to 1100Kbps FLAC files)

Alltaken.

brupje · Post by **brupje** » 14 Mar 2007 08:11

Alltaken wrote:I'll try and get some Gridlines ASAP.

just a call for anyone who might have happened to have already created them or could automatically...... otherwise i think its a manual job.

Alltaken

Wouldn't an image editor with edge detection help?

Alltaken wrote: also JPg is fine. infact JPG is good. its a lossy format, but its designed for 24Bpp graphics, it is better than PNG for those graphics because the loss of quality is minimal (it is very bad for 8bpp graphics though). of course everyone has opinions, so it doesn't matter massively. but a 70Kb JPG will be increadibly close to a 250Kb PNG in visual quality (as 128Kbps MP3's are rather close to 1100Kbps FLAC files)

I agree on the size part, but JPG has one big penalty: no support for transparency.

TagDaze · Post by **TagDaze** » 14 Mar 2007 10:21

Alltaken wrote:come on guys. lets just take 10 seconds to think before replying to "provocatve" posts. thats any post which you don't agree with.

I think Sergej is saying that the width of the image is to big for side scrolling on small screens (i may be wrong). otherwise i don't understand what the problem is.

If you were referring to me, you probably misunderstood the nature of my post. Sergej is trying to put the models into the current builds of OTTD, and as I said in the post, that is noble.
He said he wants the graphics to be smaller. By that I think he means he wants the models to take up less space, as you said.
I merely replied by saying that the models are not made for the current build and that one should expect some things to look like crap in these builds. That is all.

Commie Si · Post by **Commie Si** » 14 Mar 2007 10:35

I am concerned about this project as an observer and fan of the game. I do not doubt that Sergej has done some good work here and got 32bpp development rolling but I still cannot shake some of the doubts in my mind about his sincerety (sp?). The last screenshot of the snowfield shows as the airport with a crashed plane above it as scenery. This was not modeled by AllTaken yet he was the only accredited artist so I also believe that this is a mock up and not ingame. All of a sudden there are no gridlines unlike the other shots. I am sure there is an explanation and i do hope that it is not a bad one. I do not want to derail the efforts of this community but i do worry about its integrity at time to time.

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32-bit Experimental Graphics for OpenTTD 32bpp

I show a difference of the image of a landscape

I show simply snow northern field.

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