Why don't you use Opera?
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Well I would want to test Opera, if there only was a version, I mean a currunt version of it for OS/2.
The latest OS/2 version is 5.1 or so and that thing crashes all the time.
The latest OS/2 version is 5.1 or so and that thing crashes all the time.
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Still the best OS around
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Woo Opera, I've been using it for years now (version 5 I think was the 1st I used). I've grown to love its mouse gestures.
I do find the occational website that doesn't work with Opera but they are few and far between.
I gave FireFox a try but I never could get into the swing of it, the mouse gestures plugin doesn't really compair to Opera's in-built ones.
I also found FireFox really slow once its been swapped out of ram in windows. It takes ages to be restored.
The only real gripe I've had with Opera is it can't connect to websites that are running Windows authentication, but FireFox can, meaning its generally no use to me at work (I develop web-apps)
I do find the occational website that doesn't work with Opera but they are few and far between.
I gave FireFox a try but I never could get into the swing of it, the mouse gestures plugin doesn't really compair to Opera's in-built ones.
I also found FireFox really slow once its been swapped out of ram in windows. It takes ages to be restored.
The only real gripe I've had with Opera is it can't connect to websites that are running Windows authentication, but FireFox can, meaning its generally no use to me at work (I develop web-apps)
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'nuff said.
Seriously though, I tried Opera a year ago, and I found it sucked. Can't remember why though.
'nuff said.
Seriously though, I tried Opera a year ago, and I found it sucked. Can't remember why though.
- jonty-comp
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I have Opera and FF installed, but I almost always use FF, for the simple reason that I have about 15 extremely useful plugins that can't be used on Opera. Hell, I had to do some major internet searching and Opera-hacking just to get a rubbish version of Adblock on there, while Firefox blocks 90% of my ads anyway, and any others, I just block the iFrame. Then there's IE tab, which means I can go on sites such as Microsoft Update (although, not that I'd ever want to ) without having to go and find my IE folder (I deleted every IE shortcut I could find, to try and rid me of the terrible memory)
Lastly, there's been a PortableFirefox for a lot longer then there's been a PortableOpera, and although they both now reside on my flashdrive, only PortableFirefox will run on the ancient boxes they call school computers.
I think the only time I ever use Opera is for downloading large files, because the integrated download manager is superior to Firefox's. But I'm sure that will change one day with an FF plugin...
Lastly, there's been a PortableFirefox for a lot longer then there's been a PortableOpera, and although they both now reside on my flashdrive, only PortableFirefox will run on the ancient boxes they call school computers.
I think the only time I ever use Opera is for downloading large files, because the integrated download manager is superior to Firefox's. But I'm sure that will change one day with an FF plugin...
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The latest Opera (9) has NTLM support.
Also adblock is integrated by default. Right-click anywhere, 'block content' and then select the ads you don't want and voila.
Also adblock is integrated by default. Right-click anywhere, 'block content' and then select the ads you don't want and voila.
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Until Foxie gives me any problems, I have no desire to transfer all of my favorites and learn to use a new browser.
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I'm in a similar situation, but in the other way around. When I got a decent Internet connection, I soon started using Opera instead of IE. Now I can't see any reason why to change to Firefox or anything else when I'm already quite used to Opera. There are some broken sites that don't work correctly in it, but I can still use IE for those (I need it anyway for sites that think ActiveX is a universal thing and works everywhere...)
That said, I can't really compare Opera to FF, only to IE6. The fact that only a minority uses Opera gives users some safety; exploit writers probably won't concentrate on Opera even if it has holes. On the other hand, since the popularity of FF is increasing, it turned out that it has a lot of holes (not as many as in IE, but still), so using it is getting less and less safer.
Opera has a lot of features that you may need in everyday browsing. For forum posts that don't create links from URLs, you have a "go to URL" entry in the context menu. If someone's post widens the whole page and forces you to scroll horizontally, no problem, just activate the "fit to width" option and compress the page to the width of your window. And, most importantly, mouse gestures save you a lot of mouse movement, so I like them a lot. Even when it crashes (a rare occurence), you can just restart it and it restores all tabs the way they were before the crash.
</Opera_advertisement>
That said, I can't really compare Opera to FF, only to IE6. The fact that only a minority uses Opera gives users some safety; exploit writers probably won't concentrate on Opera even if it has holes. On the other hand, since the popularity of FF is increasing, it turned out that it has a lot of holes (not as many as in IE, but still), so using it is getting less and less safer.
Opera has a lot of features that you may need in everyday browsing. For forum posts that don't create links from URLs, you have a "go to URL" entry in the context menu. If someone's post widens the whole page and forces you to scroll horizontally, no problem, just activate the "fit to width" option and compress the page to the width of your window. And, most importantly, mouse gestures save you a lot of mouse movement, so I like them a lot. Even when it crashes (a rare occurence), you can just restart it and it restores all tabs the way they were before the crash.
</Opera_advertisement>
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I didn't even come across that yet , but it supports my point that it is very customizable.Patchman wrote:All hotkeys are customizable, so that shouldn't be a problem... Tools->Preferences->Advanced->Shortcuts->Keyboard->Edit.XeryusTC wrote:The only downside on Opera is that some hotkeys where changed when I upgraded from 8.54 (IIRC) to 9 Beta. Appart from that it is very usefull.
Opera has tabbing on as default AFAIK, I don't need to press weird button combinations to open a link in a new tab and Opera remembers all the tabs that I had open the last time I used it, even if it crashed (what it barely does in my experience).Daan Timmer wrote:Explain me the differences betweent he Opera tabbing and FF tabbingXeryusTC wrote:And I like the tabbing A LOT, sure FF has tabbing, but it doesnt work as easy as Opera's tabbing does.
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Lots of replies!
Firstly, a few people have mentioned that they couldn't get used to Opera, which I find interesting. Usually we pitch browsers against each other feature against feature, but actual usability is a good point too. Whilst I think that Opera is the most "usable", I think that is so because of the functionality before extensions (sessions, gestures, etc). What makes Opera so hard to pick up?
toholio: I've never actually tried Opera on the Mac, so sorry for the broadness of cross-platform. I do know it's my favourite browser on both Windows and Linux though.
Daan: The tabbing differences I most note, are the fact that Opera can keep everything in one window with no problems. Firefox doesn't do that without extensions.
Extensions are my biggest gripe with Firefox. It's not that it has them as such, but what they should actually be used for. If we have a basic Firefox browser and we have an extension for Cruise Control management (it's a web dev thing), that's fine. It is an extension of the web browser that could exist as a seperate program but chose not to (Very much like Opera widgets).
But then we have extensions that are nothing more than fixes for features that should be in Firefox to begin with. For example, the way that tabs are handled can be inconsistent, with it being very difficult to keep everything in one window and people say "Get bla bla extension", that shouldn't be the case. They should actually fix the problem in the actual program.
Right now I use Firefox at work for it's web dev toolbar, and the tools for outlining elements as that isn't possible in Opera. But otherwise, to me, Opera provides a more usable experience. In Opera 10, I believe they are integrating more development tools and are asking the community for what they need, which was one reason I started this topic, to see what Opera needs to make there be no reason not to use it.
"Until Foxie gives me any problems, I have no desire to transfer all of my favorites and learn to use a new browser."
Interestingly, this is why I found Opera. Firefox on Windows has always been buggy for me, after re-installs, upgrades and so on, I had enough and looked elsewhere. Now that Opera has no ads, I've found my spot. I'm more inclined to use Firefox on Linux because firstly it has less bugs for me and any memory problems are less noticeable.
In the spirit of the topic, my reasons for using Firefox over Opera would be:
Outlining tool on the web dev toolbar
Drop down folders on the bookmark toolbar
RSS feeds on the bookmark toolbar
Firstly, a few people have mentioned that they couldn't get used to Opera, which I find interesting. Usually we pitch browsers against each other feature against feature, but actual usability is a good point too. Whilst I think that Opera is the most "usable", I think that is so because of the functionality before extensions (sessions, gestures, etc). What makes Opera so hard to pick up?
toholio: I've never actually tried Opera on the Mac, so sorry for the broadness of cross-platform. I do know it's my favourite browser on both Windows and Linux though.
Daan: The tabbing differences I most note, are the fact that Opera can keep everything in one window with no problems. Firefox doesn't do that without extensions.
Extensions are my biggest gripe with Firefox. It's not that it has them as such, but what they should actually be used for. If we have a basic Firefox browser and we have an extension for Cruise Control management (it's a web dev thing), that's fine. It is an extension of the web browser that could exist as a seperate program but chose not to (Very much like Opera widgets).
But then we have extensions that are nothing more than fixes for features that should be in Firefox to begin with. For example, the way that tabs are handled can be inconsistent, with it being very difficult to keep everything in one window and people say "Get bla bla extension", that shouldn't be the case. They should actually fix the problem in the actual program.
Right now I use Firefox at work for it's web dev toolbar, and the tools for outlining elements as that isn't possible in Opera. But otherwise, to me, Opera provides a more usable experience. In Opera 10, I believe they are integrating more development tools and are asking the community for what they need, which was one reason I started this topic, to see what Opera needs to make there be no reason not to use it.
"Until Foxie gives me any problems, I have no desire to transfer all of my favorites and learn to use a new browser."
Interestingly, this is why I found Opera. Firefox on Windows has always been buggy for me, after re-installs, upgrades and so on, I had enough and looked elsewhere. Now that Opera has no ads, I've found my spot. I'm more inclined to use Firefox on Linux because firstly it has less bugs for me and any memory problems are less noticeable.
In the spirit of the topic, my reasons for using Firefox over Opera would be:
Outlining tool on the web dev toolbar
Drop down folders on the bookmark toolbar
RSS feeds on the bookmark toolbar
Yay, we're all being civilized, this could be a good conversation after all.
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- Daan Timmer
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What do you mean *Can keep everything in one window with no problem.s Firefox doesn't do that without ext.Steve wrote:Daan: The tabbing differences I most note, are the fact that Opera can keep everything in one window with no problems. Firefox doesn't do that without extensions.
I always only have 1 open FF window. The rest are tabs...
If I want to open in a new tab. I either press middlemouse button or ctrl+left click.
If a link refers to target="_blank" then normally (IE, FF) will open a new window. However there is a setting for that..
"Tools -> options -> tabs"
[ ] Force links that open new windows top open in:
( )The same tab/window as the link
( )A new tab
So I don't see that point of your argument.
I do must agree with your statement about when O crashes it restores its tabs. Indead FF doesn't do it. But thats not a real drawback for me
I never had a problem with firefox. The only real problem I have had was with it quality feedback program. That once everymonth or so popped up... Cuz it crashed FF -__-. Kinda weird. So I removed it. And since then. Only some bugged sites made my FF crash 2times in 1year now.Steve wrote:Interestingly, this is why I found Opera. Firefox on Windows has always been buggy for me, after re-installs, upgrades and so on, I had enough and looked elsewhere. Now that Opera has no ads, I've found my spot. I'm more inclined to use Firefox on Linux because firstly it has less bugs for me and any memory problems are less noticeable.
The normal way to click links is the left mouse button, in Firefox you have to change that and use middle mouse. Opera (by default) will make sure it uses a new tab rather than you having to take care of it. And what if you didn't realise it would be opened in a new window?Daan Timmer wrote:If I want to open in a new tab. I either press middlemouse button or ctrl+left click.
If a link refers to target="_blank" then normally (IE, FF) will open a new window. However there is a setting for that..
"Tools -> options -> tabs"
[ ] Force links that open new windows top open in:
( )The same tab/window as the link
( )A new tab
So I don't see that point of your argument..
Instead Opera reserves middle mouse for forcing a new tab on a link, so I can middle mouse something to a new tab in the background and read it later.
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That is something I said too.. about the middle mouse button if I press middlebutton a new tab opens too (Default setting for firefox)Steve wrote:The normal way to click links is the left mouse button, in Firefox you have to change that and use middle mouse. Opera (by default) will make sure it uses a new tab rather than you having to take care of it. And what if you didn't realise it would be opened in a new window?Daan Timmer wrote:If I want to open in a new tab. I either press middlemouse button or ctrl+left click.
If a link refers to target="_blank" then normally (IE, FF) will open a new window. However there is a setting for that..
"Tools -> options -> tabs"
[ ] Force links that open new windows top open in:
( )The same tab/window as the link
( )A new tab
So I don't see that point of your argument..
Instead Opera reserves middle mouse for forcing a new tab on a link, so I can middle mouse something to a new tab in the background and read it later.
left-click: same window.
left-click+ctrl: new tab in same window (also when links open in a new window)
left-click+shift: new window
middle-click: new tab in same window
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