[OTTD] Old BROS Thread.

[Doorslammer]

It's like a Benny Hill show. Rather faded the longer it goes on...

[SamMacca]

Can I ask what the other forums you use are for?

[planetmaker]

Announcing their absence or re-appearance seems to serve the purpose to let this topic not die entirely and regularily make people aware that there is potential for a nice set, but no one can be bothered to work on it (at least on the coding side).

[Badger]

Can I ask what the other forums you use are for?

Who knows anymore, they never seem to be plugged in. Due to some ridiculous cock-up the servers were unavailable all summer, the time when most people actually had some free time to work on the set. Instead it seems to be the laughing stock of the forums.

[planetmaker]

Let me offer you again, that both, the DevZone where indeed a BROS project exists, can have a forum individual to each project - it just needs activation. And if desired these things can also be marked as 'private' - even though I'd not be a fan of it, it can be done. Second, of course things can be kept in this forum - posting graphics and code snippets here certainly would also keep things rather alive than some secluded place. The whole development of OpenGFX worked that way. And it worked out fine.

[Sacro]

And it's buggered again.

Yeah, sorry about that, HDD crapped out in the main MySQL server, has been redone and just sorting out the replication again.

[Sacro]

Can I ask what the other forums you use are for?

Who knows anymore, they never seem to be plugged in. Due to some ridiculous cock-up the servers were unavailable all summer, the time when most people actually had some free time to work on the set. Instead it seems to be the laughing stock of the forums.

The ridiculous cock-up was us assuming that the Uni actually meant "2-3 weeks" when they said they were renovating. Having been moved out at the back end of July, it wasn't until 09:10 on the first day of the semester that we got back in (and that was due to a huge gang of us piling in to get everything back)

Us admins are run off our feet, I am retaking my 3rd year, so I have another Project to do, and the other 2 admins are on their MEng, so they have no time either, I'm attempting to train up some 1st/2nd years so they can keep things going but none are quite there yet.

We did manage to get most of the things up and going fairly quickly however the webserver took some time to secure and then I had to wait for someone else to redo the configuration, and then unfortunatly as you just saw, we had a hard drive failure, I couldn't find any onsite so I had to wait for one to be brought in before I could rebuild it. Things are now back up, seemingly fine, and should be running for the forseeable future.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Ben - Freeside SysAdmin

[andythenorth]

it seems to be the laughing stock of the forums.

Laughing stock is a bit harsh. Running joke might be fairer

So much work done....so little result. When is it time to let it die gracefully?

[Doorslammer]

it seems to be the laughing stock of the forums.

Laughing stock is a bit harsh. Running joke might be fairer

So much work done....so little result. When is it time to let it die gracefully?

Not particularly nice on those who have put the yards in pixel wise really...

[Badger]

It shouldn't be left to die but previous bickering and in-fighting makes this a daunting project for anyone who attempts to code it. Sadly, it's reputation precedes it IMHO.

[planetmaker]

As also said: IF someone wants to have a go, I'll be happy to give advice when s/he choses NML; you could easily grab the code of OpenGFX+ Trains and adjust it to your needs.

Currently I'm getting this set together which makes use of most things a train set usually wants to use; it meanwhile has examples for livery overrides, cargo-specific treatment of wagons and capacity callbacks - and I just started with that; though quite easily possible, an example for an articulated vehicle is missing so far, but locally I do have such example (actually Yexo wrote that) and would hand it out on request. In any case, examples for all basic functions needed are there, it would "just" need adding different graphics and and you should be set.

NFO being complicated is no excuse - there are easier means. It's just a matter of *someone* willing to take up the task instead of calling for *someone else*. Have a look at OpenGFX+ Train's source

[Doorslammer]

Back up again, I see. Hopefully for a slightly more extended time.

[SamMacca]

Second, of course things can be kept in this forum - posting graphics and code snippets here certainly would also keep things rather alive than some secluded place.

You just said what every person who has ever read this topic is thinking.. I'd love to see some stuff thats been done and I'm sure plenty of other people would too.

I'm actually going to take a look at learning to code. So many graphics in place need code and then they'd be finished.. planetmaker, what would you say is easiest to pick up? NFO or NML?

[lawton27]

what would you say is easiest to pick up? NFO or NML?

Well NFO comprises of hexadecimal coding, with only strings not represented by hex, if you know hexadecimal or are prepared to learn one could argue you should start with NFO.

Personally I've never tried NML but I know it should be easier to pick up as its more like a higher level language, using words to represent things it can do rather than numbers.

[planetmaker]

Second, of course things can be kept in this forum - posting graphics and code snippets here certainly would also keep things rather alive than some secluded place.

You just said what every person who has ever read this topic is thinking.. I'd love to see some stuff thats been done and I'm sure plenty of other people would too.

I'm actually going to take a look at learning to code. So many graphics in place need code and then they'd be finished.. planetmaker, what would you say is easiest to pick up? NFO or NML?

Personally I'll pick NML every day over NFO, if I have the choice: simply for the IMHO important reason that I can understand my own code much easier when I come back to it after some time:

Code: Select all

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, bulk_wagon_cb_switch, current_callback) {
    VEH_CB_REFITTED_CAPACITY: bulk_wagon_cb_capacity_switch;
    VEH_CB_VEHICLE_PROPERTIES: bulk_wagon_cb_property_switch;
    bulk_wagon_switch;
}

is easier to understand at a later time, even when I understand at the time of coding the nfo equivalent of

Code: Select all

// Name: bulk_wagon_cb_switch
250 * 33 02 00 FD 89 
  0C 00 \dx0000FFFF \b2 
  \wx00FA \dx00000015 \dx00000015 // capacity callback
  \wx00F3 \dx00000036 \dx00000036 // properties callback
  \wx00F0 // graphics branch

just as well. You can look at OpenGFX+ Trains and use it as an example (project page: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains ); I don't define engines there (yet) except for a livery override, but the wagons meanwhile make use of nearly everything you need. Trains are meanwhile nearly entirely supported.

The one big BUT with NML is, that it is not yet released officially and still in its alpha stage. It can not entirely be guaranteed that you won't have to adjust parts of your newgrf to changes still made to NML's source. Still, this didn't stop me writing this train newgrf nor did it stop me writing a full-fledged railtypes newgrf in it. If changes to the syntax happen, they are usually easily adopted for - and that will stop most probable after the first release.
NFO on the other hand has a well-established syntax and it definitely won't change and most newgrf are (still) written in it. Thus there still might be more people currently who could help - though I can count the number of active nfo newgrf wizards still only using both of my hands, maybe I need my feet, too, but not sure.

[SamMacca]

Second, of course things can be kept in this forum - posting graphics and code snippets here certainly would also keep things rather alive than some secluded place.

You just said what every person who has ever read this topic is thinking.. I'd love to see some stuff thats been done and I'm sure plenty of other people would too.

I'm actually going to take a look at learning to code. So many graphics in place need code and then they'd be finished.. planetmaker, what would you say is easiest to pick up? NFO or NML?

Personally I'll pick NML every day over NFO, if I have the choice: simply for the IMHO important reason that I can understand my own code much easier when I come back to it after some time:

Code: Select all

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, bulk_wagon_cb_switch, current_callback) {
    VEH_CB_REFITTED_CAPACITY: bulk_wagon_cb_capacity_switch;
    VEH_CB_VEHICLE_PROPERTIES: bulk_wagon_cb_property_switch;
    bulk_wagon_switch;
}

is easier to understand at a later time, even when I understand at the time of coding the nfo equivalent of

Code: Select all

// Name: bulk_wagon_cb_switch
250 * 33 02 00 FD 89 
  0C 00 \dx0000FFFF \b2 
  \wx00FA \dx00000015 \dx00000015 // capacity callback
  \wx00F3 \dx00000036 \dx00000036 // properties callback
  \wx00F0 // graphics branch

just as well. You can look at OpenGFX+ Trains and use it as an example (project page: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains ); I don't define engines there (yet) except for a livery override, but the wagons meanwhile make use of nearly everything you need. Trains are meanwhile nearly entirely supported.

The one big BUT with NML is, that it is not yet released officially and still in its alpha stage. It can not entirely be guaranteed that you won't have to adjust parts of your newgrf to changes still made to NML's source. Still, this didn't stop me writing this train newgrf nor did it stop me writing a full-fledged railtypes newgrf in it. If changes to the syntax happen, they are usually easily adopted for - and that will stop most probable after the first release.
NFO on the other hand has a well-established syntax and it definitely won't change and most newgrf are (still) written in it. Thus there still might be more people currently who could help - though I can count the number of active nfo newgrf wizards still only using both of my hands, maybe I need my feet, too, but not sure.

Hmmmmmm.. much to think about. The only problem with me learning is time really, I'm willing to do it all don't get me wrong.. but I start work at 7 oclock latest every day and sometimes don't get back til' 7 that night. Weekends and such I'll have time though.

Think I'll learn to do both at some point. If, like you said, NML is easier to go back and make changes to.. Then I'd prefer to code using that. But, then again if you said NML is not officially released then maybe I should learn to code using NFO first them when NML is properly released, I'll learn to code that..

[DJ Nekkid]

now dont make NFO look that ugly pm...

Code: Select all

// Name: bulk_wagon_cb_switch
250 * 33 02 00 FD 89 0C 00 \dx0000FFFF \b2                // Why doubleword size? 
  \wx00FA \dx00000015 \dx00000015 // capacity callback    // Why doubleword size and all the 0s?
  \wx00F3 \dx00000036 \dx00000036 // properties callback  // why doubleword sizeand all the 0s?
  \wx00F0 // graphics branch

"Pure" nfo code

Code: Select all

250 * 33 02 00 FD 81 0C 00 00 FF \b2  // Callbacks, and two of them
  FA 00 \wx15 \wx15                   // capacity callback    
  F3 00 \wx36 \wx36                   // properties callback  
  F0 00                               // Attach graphics branch

Or with my semi-psuedo-NFO

Code: Select all

250 * 33 02 00 FD 81 CALLBACKS \b2    // Callbacks, and two of them
  FA 00 CALLBACK_15                   // capacity callback    
  F3 00 CALLBACK_36                   // properties callback  
  F0 00                               // Attach graphics branch

[Sacro]

Eugh, it seems our DB server is down again, apologies, hopefully going to bring the backup one into play and get things running again with that

Sorry about all the downtime.

[SamMacca]

Let me offer you again, that both, the DevZone where indeed a BROS project exists, can have a forum individual to each project - it just needs activation. And if desired these things can also be marked as 'private' - even though I'd not be a fan of it, it can be done. Second, of course things can be kept in this forum - posting graphics and code snippets here certainly would also keep things rather alive than some secluded place. The whole development of OpenGFX worked that way. And it worked out fine.

I'm just gunna highlight what PlanetMaker said again.. it makes so much more sense to use this forum, does it not? When does this forum ever die?

Think its gone off twice, if that, since I registered.

Hell, I'll even save the stuff to my comp aswell.. this baby never dies.. and I come on here for a browse most nights.

[jonnie47]

Just wondering how the projects going. I no you probably get request`s all the time but is there any alpha/ beta available. I have seen various Screenshots with what i am asuming is the BROS stock on it and was jsut curious as to how far away a beta is from release.

Thanks