Michael Blunck's new graphics [http://www.ttdpatch.de/]

[wallyweb]

... not many had people owned cars so they were not mass produced as they are now-a-days.

Henry Ford is turning in his grave. The Model T was a mass produced car and was widely available in the 1920's and you could get any colour you wanted, as long as it was black.

[krtaylor]

...in the United States. Cars were not for the European common man until after WW2, really. Ameecher's point is mostly valid.

[Rainer]

Hi Michael,

Seems I´ll have to design an early vehicle transporter for 0.9 just for the sake of George´s ECS vectors?

yes, pleeeeease I like your set, but I like to earn much money in the game and without vehicles it doesn't work.

cu
Rainer

[Rainer]

Hi krtaylor, Ameecher,

...in the United States. Cars were not for the European common man until after WW2, really. Ameecher's point is mostly valid.

This is a game. There are rules in this game that do not match reality exactly.
One of the ECS rules is that you have to provide cars (or machinery as the original idea of ECS was) to mines and farms to increase production.
When Michael released his ECS-update that was not the case, so the update is now out of date.

cu
Rainer

[Toni Babelony]

The term 'vehicle' doesn't only suggest 'cars' but also vehicles like tractors, ploughs, soil movers and others.
I think it's really useful to have a wagon that transports vehicles in the early years, since LVv4 doesn't provide it and the only other compatible set that does is the NewShips set. (which is bloody expensive to maintain when all your money is shot on your railroad layout)

[krtaylor]

If it's "vehicles", well, nothing wrong with that. It makes perfect sense to have a crawler-tractor, bulldozer or other heavy equipment on a low-sided wagon.

[TrueSatan]

He Michael, do you add these also to the DB-Set ?
http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/ ... ways-sale/
At last there are now property of the DB *lol*

edit: so not to spam the thread, an edit of the old post
@ michael (and developers) so we need more slots for trains and wagons ?!? *hehe*
i'm looking forward for a combined db/ukrs set and not to forget the london tube set implemented as well

[michael blunck]

[Chiltern Railways]

Yeah, if they´re proceeding like that, there´ll come a time of an "international edition" of the DB set. Or a fusion UKRS/DB.

regards
Michael

[Ameecher]

An idea struck me whilst playing my game*. Perhaps have a livery refit for trains so that they look like Sleeping Cars and perhaps in turn reduce the capacity of the coaches to (I don't know, 40 people) so that people don't use them just to carry loads of passengers. I think it would add a nice bit of variety to the later years of the game.

*Shameless plug but this is where the idea evolved from.

[DonRazzi]

Nighttrains in the DBSet would be superawesome! Have you ever thought of introducing CNL or Talgo-coaches to the set? If we've got the Metropolitain, we should get the Talgo, too.

Don

[michael blunck]

I´ve been thinking about including "night trains" ("TEN", actually) myself quite some time ago, but never get into it.

so that they look like Sleeping Cars and perhaps in turn reduce the capacity of the coaches to (I don't know, 40 people) so that people don't use them just to carry loads of passengers.

Except from the late TEN ("Trans Europ Night") period, it´d be difficult to have sleeping cars distinguishable from ordinary coaches (at least until the mid 1980s, they´d look like the already existing dining-cars, i.e. in dark red livery). And having reduced capacity would scare off quite a lot of people, I bet.

Have you ever thought of introducing CNL or Talgo-coaches to the set? If we've got the Metropolitain, we should get the Talgo, too.

Well, the 1990s are already very variated in the new set. Talgo? Which one?

regards
Michael

[Ameecher]

And having reduced capacity would scare off quite a lot of people, I bet.

I said that because if you had it as a refit of the standard coach in the same way you do refits of other liveries (ie capacity of the coach increases to 63 instead of 56) then people might choose that all the time in order to overcome poor service and all trains would be Sleeper trains. Not what you want, I'm sure. As it is you have reduced capacity for the interregio coaches (but then again, no one seems to use those much, I do, but I don't see many others).

Just my thoughts, anyway.

[michael blunck]

Just my thoughts, anyway.

I´ll think it over, tonight.

regards
Michael

[krtaylor]

I'd vote for randomization, or a livery refit, without affecting capacity. That worked nicely in the US Set, where you randomly get various Amtrak Superliners (vistadomes, diner, sleeper, etc) without any affect on anything other than graphic appearance. Though, in the US, the train consists pretty much ARE random, maybe they are more orderly in Germany and that wouldn't look right.

[Ameecher]

Randomisation amongst regular and special coaches is very rare since the trains are usually made up of fixed rakes. I don't see that idea working at all, Michael may feel differently, of course.

[jvassie]

Randomisation amongst regular and special coaches is very rare since the trains are usually made up of fixed rakes. I don't see that idea working at all, Michael may feel differently, of course.

I agree, its not normally randomisation, more a lack of order. Usually not seen on luxury trains like TEE though, but local trains getting cascaded stock from old express usage, so you get a mix of blue-steel and the white/blue cars for example.

[michael blunck]

Well, how about the "InterCity Night", a Spanish-built Talgo trainset:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car ... o/pix.html

Other sleepers would be hard to implement: before the 1990s they looked like IR coaches and before 1985 they looked like purple red dining cars.

"Randomisation" has never been the method of choice in the DB Set, except for some cargo (steel, etc).

regards
Michael

[DonRazzi]

That's the Talgo I thought about... DB had seven sets of them, reduced to five sets soon as they recognised there's too less usage for the sets.

[DonRazzi]

Though, in the US, the train consists pretty much ARE random, maybe they are more orderly in Germany and that wouldn't look right.

Oh krtaylor, you don't know much about DB colours... For decades the DB was one of the most colourfull railways as they didn't manage it for years to get all the coaches into the same scheme. Often you could see three or more schemes in one train. Especially between the years of the introduction of the green-yellow scheme in the seventies an the mid nineties - a few years after the introduction of the new blue-white InterRegio-scheme, it was rare to find a train *not* to be mixed up.

Typical multicolour trains are:

A 1993 Intercity:

Loko: Red BR 120. Usually this train would be red an white, but add some old stock in red cream, take the Bistro of the InterRegio (which is cheaper to operate on some routes) and add some old Express-Car in Cream-Green... And voila, here you have four different schemes in one train...

A 1979 Intercity:

Loko: Cream-red BR 103. DB in this year added a second class to the IC, but they had no cream-red rolling stock for doing this and added usual 2nd-class-coaches in cream-green.

A 1977 Express (yes, long run...)

Blue E 10 pulling, new stock in cream-green, old stock in green, maybe first class in dark blue, restaurant in red and some silverfishes... I've seen pictures of such a train, but don't ask me where...

Since DB changed to a private corporation these things changed much. Since mid 90s it's possible to change a train by colour before you will be charged an extra fee...

Since 2001 all express trains come in lightgray with a red line beyond under the widows, local trains are red with white doors. Trainspotters are very sad about this, because they think it's boring. But sometimes you can see a colourfull train today - special trains for special reasons like transporting soccer fans through the republic. DB would never use it's actual stock for something like this...

Don

[michael blunck]

For decades the DB was one of the most colourfull railways as they didn't manage it for years to get all the coaches into the same scheme.

New management, new livery.

Often you could see three or more schemes in one train. Especially between the years of the introduction of the green-yellow scheme in the seventies an the mid nineties -

"green-yellow"? You´re refering to ocean-blue/cream.

Typical multicolour trains are:

A 1993 Intercity:

Loko: Red BR 120. Usually this train would be red an white, but add some old stock in red cream, take the Bistro of the InterRegio (which is cheaper to operate on some routes) and add some old Express-Car in Cream-Green... And voila, here you have four different schemes in one train...

Or are you refering to former DR stock in cream/green. That may well fit in the years after 1990, though.

A 1979 Intercity:

Loko: Cream-red BR 103. DB in this year added a second class to the IC, but they had no cream-red rolling stock for doing this and added usual 2nd-class-coaches in cream-green.

Ocean-blue/cream. And still older bottle-green coaches.

A 1977 Express (yes, long run...)

Blue E 10 pulling, new stock in cream-green, old stock in green, maybe first class in dark blue, restaurant in red and some silverfishes... I've seen pictures of such a train, but don't ask me where...

Ocean-blue/cream. Yes, such pictures can be found in picture books like those from Georg Wagner. I do have all three: The German DB, the Austrian ÖBB, and the Swiss Railways, all reprints from the original books being released in the late 1980s.

Since 2001 all express trains come in lightgray with a red line beyond under the widows, local trains are red with white doors. Trainspotters are very sad about this, because they think it's boring. [...]

Yes, that "all traffic red" is quite boring. Fortunately, there are possibilities to break this scheme.

BTW, needless to say that all those variations may be achieved by using the DB Set. That´s why there´s no "randomisation". Every coach "remembers" the original livery in existence when bought, and even when "livery override" enters the scene, that information is preserved. I.e., when buying a green "Bm" (long-distance) coach it may be refitted to "Rheingold 2" livery (cobalt blue) and vice versa, but doesn´t change automatically, e.g. to the later TEE cream/red livery with the next override (in fact it´d return to green in that TEE train). In this way, original usage of coaches by the DB is perfectly mimicked.

BTW, I should set up a small "guide" with typical train/livery compositions somewhere, because historic photos of the 1970s and early 1980s are really hard to find on the Internet.

Just some "allowed" combinations:

- V200 in red with local coaches in green, ocean-blue/cream and silverfish for branch lines in 1980.
- green BR141 with green semi-baggage coach and silverfish, dito.
- V100 in red with silverfish and green coaches, dito.
- red V160 with silverfish, dito.
- BR111 in S-Bahn livery with oceanblue/cream and silverfish, dito.
- BR111 in S-Bahn livery with oceanblue/cream and green coaches, in regional traffic, 1982.
- cream/red BR112 with oceanblue/cream and green coaches, in regional traffic, 1980.
- blue BR181 with silverfish and ocean-blue/cream coaches, dito.
- blue BR118 with silverfish, local traffic, 1980.
- green BR144 with silverfish, green and ocean-blue/cream coaches, in local traffic, 1979.
- cream/red BR103 with green and ocean-blue/cream coaches, long-distance traffic, 1979.
- ocean-blue/cream BR111 in double traction with oceanblue/cream and green coaches, long-distance traffic, 1978.
- ...

regards
Michael