Some AIs are being lame on OpenTTD 15.x

[Transporteiro]

Both have a constant company value of R$4, and didn't go bankrupt 20 years after creation. But they don't go far:

• Frank/2's StreetTraffic : owns 40 road pieces, nothing more;
• Inga Sikorska's HeliFerry: owns 11 airports, nothing more.

Why does this happens?
I guess this is not intended, but possibly could be a misconfiguration on my part?
I thought that I just needed to download the AIs and they would work out of the box.

________
My setup:

• Game version: version 15.0-RC4, through Steam;
• Operating system: GNU/Linux AlmaLinux 10.1 x86_64_v2.

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BROKEN AIS (company value of just R$4):
Last update of this list: on 2026-01-06.

Code: Select all

44754149-DumbAI-0.12.tar.broken
46544149-Trans_AI-190723.tar.broken
48454645-HeliFerry-4.tar.broken
49644d4d-IdleMoreMore-2.tar.broken
49646c65-Idle-1.tar.broken
52444149-RoadAI-5.tar.broken
53545452-StreetTraffic1-1.0.tar.broken
69646d6f-IdleMore-1.tar.broken

****************************************************

[Redirect Left]

• Frank/2's StreetTraffic : owns 40 road pieces, nothing more;
• Inga Sikorska's HeliFerry: owns 11 airports, nothing more.

I have also noticed AIs being unexciting on 15.0, when i reported one of the faults it was basically "oh well, anyway".

Can you provide a savegame of this? I'd be curious to see if I can figure it out and maybe add some notes to my list of AI here.

[Transporteiro]

Can you provide a savegame of this? I'd be curious to see if I can figure it out and maybe add some notes to my list of AI here.

I could, but I think it would be more useful if I followed the instructions of viewtopic.php?t=42159 instead.
I still had no time to check the AI debug panel. Which requires me to first learn to open the debug panel.

[Redirect Left]

I could, but I think it would be more useful if I followed the instructions of viewtopic.php?t=42159 instead.

That thread has not been updated since 2009, and the author of it has not been active since early 2020. It is unlikely that it will help much in 2025 2026.

[Transporteiro]

I could, but I think it would be more useful if I followed the instructions of viewtopic.php?t=42159 instead.

That thread has not been updated since 2009, and the author of it has not been active since early 2020. It is unlikely that it will help much in 2025 2026.

The thread is a sticky one on viewforum.php?f=65.
That's why I should read and follow its instructions.

[Redirect Left]

I would probably just believe the guy who has been here since 2005, but you enjoy wasting time.

[Transporteiro]

Can you provide a savegame of this? I'd be curious to see if I can figure it out and maybe add some notes to my list of AI here.

Sure.
Here is my game at 1976-10-18, with the lame "StreetTraffic #2" (version 1.0) and the lame "HeliFerry #2" (version 4):

Meningdore Transport, 1976-10-18.sav

(169.49 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

There is also this other save in which a company founded in 1951 reached bankruptcy later. The company is called "Chicago, Burlington and Quincy", owned by H.H. Tompson, and, again, has also a value of just R$4. Why always R$4, and not R$3 or R$5? The AI behind it is "Denver & Rio Grande" (version 1).

Meningdore Transport, 1959-12-09.sav

(124.4 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

This one is different from the other lame AIs because it built a huge infrastructure, but that made not much sense economically. At the save point of 1959-12-09, it had 1,837 rail pieces and 40 station tiles. It clearly was attempting something, so it was not lame. Just not strategic enough, and that's OK.

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So i can't check HeliFerry as it doesn't survive the save/load process (not all AIs are configured to handle load events). As its name suggests though it will only build helicopters and ferries, if there is no place to add these it will sit & do nothing.

StreetTraffic does not aim to make money, only to create roads and vehicles to generate pseudotraffic to admire in lieu of your own road vehicles.
You may need to add a GRF that adds the correct car models for the AI to use (this was true of the original TownCars AI, so maaay be the same here. I don't test these kinds of AI for my tests as they're intentionally not competitive).

Denver & Rio AI even when it works (it sometimes does... nothing at all) has a tendency to build networks with absolutely zero regard for whatever settings you are currently running. It looks at your config file and then goes, yeah well thats just your opinion, forgetting that isn't how the game works.. Your game is set to disallow 90 degree turns (this is actually the default setting, welcome to AI hellscape of OpenTTD). However in a few areas of its track layout, it requires trains to do a 90 degree turn to continue its journey. For this reason it goes bankrupt because the trains get stuck and lose money endlessly.
I disabled the forbid 90 degree turn settings, took control of the company via the cheat menu to force the trains in the right direction and the trains did complete their journey after breaking down... yay, so that is the problem confirmed for this AI in this instance.

Screenshot 2025-12-29 195934.png (153.25 KiB) Viewed 5718 times

Screenshot 2025-12-29 201323.png (48.22 KiB) Viewed 5718 times

Because of how terrible the AI landscape is, i have tried to simplify it and done lots of tests the results of which are here. It isn't a sticky topic because... keeping stuff from 2009 stickied is easier i guess or they hate me, probably that as i don't mince words.

Ultimately though, if you want to get your rear kicked by an AI use AAAHogEx, or if you want a more gentle AI that is still somewhat competitive, ChooChoo (even tries to build networks!) RailwAI, NotPerfectAI & WormAI are pretty good. Whereas SuperSimpleAI & SimpleAI will give you an easier time who just... kind of exists & tries its best.
I'm also planning a big update in the next few weeks to it that will give them all competitive rating but spoilers i basically gave away those results so far above. The update also adds a lot more info to the notes boxes, such as if they break if a vehicle settings is this or that, and thanks to you i can also now add forbid 90 degree turns as a note for Denver & Rio so thanks for helping there too, and i'll credit you in the update post i do in that thread.

[Transporteiro]

So i can't check HeliFerry as it doesn't survive the save/load process (not all AIs are configured to handle load events). As its name suggests though it will only build helicopters and ferries, if there is no place to add these it will sit & do nothing.

1. I don't understand what you meant by "it doesn't survive". What changes if I load the game on another machine and if you load the game on another machine?
2. I know it is focused on helicopters and ferries, and this would not be a problem if it worked!

StreetTraffic does not aim to make money, only to create roads and vehicles to generate pseudotraffic to admire in lieu of your own road vehicles.
You may need to add a GRF that adds the correct car models for the AI to use (this was true of the original TownCars AI, so maaay be the same here. I don't test these kinds of AI for my tests as they're intentionally not competitive).

I opt to discard this AI. I want competitor entrepreneurs to play agains, not painters to pamper me.
I would never guess that could be there an AI that doesn't play on purpose.

Denver & Rio AI even when it works (it sometimes does... nothing at all) has a tendency to build networks with absolutely zero regard for whatever settings you are currently running. [...] In a few areas of its track layout, it requires trains to do a 90 degree turn to continue its journey. For this reason it goes bankrupt because the trains get stuck and lose money endlessly.

I disabled the forbid 90 degree turn settings, took control of the company via the cheat menu to force the trains in the right direction and the trains did complete their journey after breaking down... yay, so that is the problem confirmed for this AI in this instance.

Thanks for the investigation! Very interesting discovery.

Because of how terrible the AI landscape is, i have tried to simplify it and done lots of tests the results of which are here. It isn't a sticky topic because... keeping stuff from 2009 stickied is easier i guess or they hate me, probably that as i don't mince words.

You created a whitelist. If I have the patience, I will create a blacklist on this topic. Let's see if we reach the same conclusions?

Ultimately though, if you want to get your rear kicked by an AI use AAAHogEx, or if you want a more gentle AI that is still somewhat competitive, ChooChoo (even tries to build networks!) RailwAI, NotPerfectAI & WormAI are pretty good. Whereas SuperSimpleAI & SimpleAI will give you an easier time who just... kind of exists & tries its best.

I downloaded all AIs inside the game and set "Random AIs" for the game. I'm not looking for any specific AI to play against, just want to have random competitors.
But random competitors that work.

How do I get rid of the lame AIs that I downloaded? I just go to the directory on my computer and rename them to "*.lame"?

I'm also planning a big update in the next few weeks to it that will give them all competitive rating but spoilers i basically gave away those results so far above. The update also adds a lot more info to the notes boxes, such as if they break if a vehicle settings is this or that, and thanks to you i can also now add forbid 90 degree turns as a note for Denver & Rio so thanks for helping there too, and i'll credit you in the update post i do in that thread.

Thanks, but the investigation was yours. I don't deserve any credit.

________
My setup:

• Game version: 15.0-RC4 version, through Steam;
• Operating system: GNU/Linux Debian 12.

[Redirect Left]

[*]I don't understand what you meant by "it doesn't survive". What changes if I load the game on another machine and if you load the game on another machine?

When I loaded your savegame, it simply had nothing. It was all lost in the saving & then loading process. This is through no fault of either of our computers, just the AI itself doesn't appear to support loading.

How do I get rid of the lame AIs that I downloaded? I just go to the directory on my computer and rename them to "*.lame"?

You can manually delete the files for AI that do not work. I would recommend against using random AIs just because you run the risk of things like occuring, instead of using tested & working ones*
* tested working ones may still crash & need resetting in game, its just less likely based upon testing

[Transporteiro]

[*]I don't understand what you meant by "it doesn't survive". What changes if I load the game on another machine and if you load the game on another machine?

When I loaded your savegame, it simply had nothing. It was all lost in the saving & then loading process. This is through no fault of either of our computers, just the AI itself doesn't appear to support loading.

I was able to load the game from AlmaLinux 10.1 to Debian 12 and kept playing. Then I bought the 2 mentioned lame AI companies to get rid of them, and one of the 2 that entered the game is lame too: "Unnamed". It appears as such both in-game and on the "Load game" screen. So I have no idea about which this one could be. The company is 8 years old and have no infrastructure nor vehicles and is worth R$4.

Questions:

1. How can I discover which AI is this?
2. Why and how the heck these AIs keep always R$4 value to not go bankrupt and disappear?

How do I get rid of the lame AIs that I downloaded? I just go to the directory on my computer and rename them to "*.lame"?

You can manually delete the files for AI that do not work. I would recommend against using random AIs just because you run the risk of things like occuring, instead of using tested & working ones*
* tested working ones may still crash & need resetting in game, its just less likely based upon testing

Savegame:

Meningdore Transport, 1985-03-17.sav

(194.87 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

[Redirect Left]

[*]I don't understand what you meant by "it doesn't survive". What changes if I load the game on another machine and if you load the game on another machine?

When I loaded your savegame, it simply had nothing. It was all lost in the saving & then loading process. This is through no fault of either of our computers, just the AI itself doesn't appear to support loading.

Screenshot 2025-12-30 023642.png (9.3 KiB) Viewed 5652 times

Questions:

1. How can I discover which AI is this?
2. Why and how the heck these AIs keep always R$4 value to not go bankrupt and disappear?

You can use the AI debug screen and then select the company of the AI you do not like (or do like!) The name of the AI is top centre of that screen.

Screenshot 2025-12-30 023838.png (5.69 KiB) Viewed 5652 times

I suspect if a company never creates vehicles, then it isn't losing money at a fast rate compared to what Denver & Rio was doing earlier with its jammed trains. It may take many many years for it to go bankrupt, if ever.

[Transporteiro]

Thanks for teaching me how to access the AI debug. I'll check it later.

I suspect if a company never creates vehicles, then it isn't losing money at a fast rate compared to what Denver & Rio was doing earlier with its jammed trains. It may take many many years for it to go bankrupt, if ever.

It makes sense, but doesn't explains why all lame AIs get stuck at the R$4 value (not enough for a can of Pepsi in real world).

[jfs]

Company value can not go negative or to zero, it always bottoms out at £1. The game calculates all money figures in £ internally and only applies an exchange rate for display, and likely the rate is £1 = R$4.

[Transporteiro]

Company value can not go negative or to zero, it always bottoms out at £1. The game calculates all money figures in £ internally and only applies an exchange rate for display, and likely the rate is £1 = R$4.

That explains a lot! Thank you very much.
I did not find obvious that a zero balance or negative balance would not lead to a zero or negative company value.

[Transporteiro]

You can use the AI debug screen and then select the company of the AI you do not like (or do like!) The name of the AI is top centre of that screen.
Screenshot 2025-12-30 023838.png

Fine, I discovered the lame AI is one created with the explict purpose of doing nothing. Lame by design. It is called IdleMoreMore (v2), that is an evolution of IdleMore (v1), that is a fork of Idle (v1). Come on!!! :x

Bought the company to get rid of the lame AI, and uninstalled the three.

[Redirect Left]

Fine, I discovered the lame AI is one created with the explict purpose of doing nothing.

That'd do it!

[Transporteiro]

TracAI v1 crashed in 1998:

Meningdore Transport, 1998-02-18.png

(185.81 KiB) Not downloaded yet

It's performance between 1992 and 1997 was something between 290 and ~360. Founded in 1977.

______
Update: crashed again in 2004.

Meningdore Transport, 2004-11-12.png

(307.19 KiB) Not downloaded yet

It's performance between 1999 and 2004 has ben steadly above 366. Not much variation.

[Transporteiro]

RoadAI (v5)'s company was inaugurated in 2008.
I'm on 2014 and it still is worth just R$4 and has a performance index of just 30.
Another broken AI confirmed! Bought, liquidated, and deleted.

[odisseus]

You could have saved yourself the effort if you had checked its development thread. Apparently RoadAI (or RoadRunner) has been broken and abandoned for years.