Using both ends of a station

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numbat
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Using both ends of a station

Post by numbat »

Hi All,

if I have a long station (say 12 tiles long) and two short trains (say 5 tiles each), coming from opposite ends of the station, is there any way to get both trains to stop at that station at the same time, one at each end?

Cheers,
Chris.
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Auge »

Hello
numbat wrote: 22 May 2023 07:02 if I have a long station (say 12 tiles long) and two short trains (say 5 tiles each), coming from opposite ends of the station, is there any way to get both trains to stop at that station at the same time, one at each end?
Generally, the track section in the station is one single block, accessible for one single train. There are two possible attempts to overcome this limitation.

1. Having a signal between the sections of the platform. But: this signal can only be placed on a non-station tile. Best case would be to have a graphical equivalent, that looks like a platform tile, matching the set you use, that covers the ground texture, but isn't a station tile. I don't know, if this is technically really possible and I doubt whether such a graphic exists for the set you are using.
2. Having a station tile, that fulfills this purpose. The only set, I know, that has a matching station tile is the New Stations Set of Michael Blunk. Pitfall: it is a non-track-tile, that can not be passed by a vehicle. It's like building two buffers, one built against the other.

For the New Stations Set (solution 2.), the limitation is, that the trains can enter the station only from the opposite directions and are only able to leave the station the way they entered it. The other solution (1.) is only hypothetical, so possible limitations are necessarily unknown.

Tschö, Auge
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

This information is rather surprising to me from an experienced forum member :) . There are plenty of station sets that have trackless tiles. :) And for example, Fridaemon's set consists of only decorative tiles without tracks.
Another possibility is to make a combined station, where there would be a station for trucks or buses in the middle.
In the picture you can see that even Dutch stations have tiles without a track. And even buffers.
Another, rather nice solution is to place the second part of the station one square further away and connect it to the second part via the CTRL key, then you can place some suitable object between the two parts. However, this solution may require the setting of connecting non-adjacent stations, I am not sure if it is enabled by default.
This solution is in the second picture, I preferred to test if it works. I consider this to be one of the great charms of this game, there are a lot of options :)
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piratescooby
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by piratescooby »

Narnston Transport, 04-01-2021.png
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This is how I build a Station that uses both ends , also as a through Station .
Argus
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

Nice :)
I have multiple games saved so I didn't know where I had a similar example, so I just did only a quick example of the solutions :)
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Eddi »

Argus wrote: 22 May 2023 09:59 This information is rather surprising to me from an experienced forum member :) . There are plenty of station sets that have trackless tiles. :)
i think what he meant was non-track tiles that visually look like track tiles, being part of the platform.
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

If it was meant to be, then he is probably right, but I didn't understand it in that sense from the post. Google still translates clumsily and my knowledge of English is only basic.
However, there is also a section of rails on the platform with buffers.
And now I managed to achieve a nice result with Industrial stations renewal, surely with a little practice it will work elsewhere. It looked promising for the Japanese set as well.
Unfortunately, it is not possible to completely leave a gap, but there is only a small part of the platform divided by buffers. :)
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kamnet
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by kamnet »

One other CRAZY thing you could do (maybe two or three).

Build two platforms of the same station name/ID with a gap in the middle, and fill the gap with either a new station name/ID with a platform that matches the others, or insert a waypoint (especially if you use a waypoint from a matching set like Dutch Stations or Auz Stations as Waypoints). With this you could even theoretically do through-running.

EDIT: Nope, scratch that, you're still going to need a signal between the two platforms to create two separate blocks. Oh well, it was an idea.
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

Me, that's a pretty interesting idea, but I guess it didn't work.
With all due respect to Blunck, his stations are still not on the Bananas, and it's harder for a beginner to get to them. That's why I tried to show how it could be solved with all of them, including the basic ones. :) Which reminds me, with the latest version of Newstations I always have to switch the palette because the default is Dos. I must have downloaded the wrong version?
Auge
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Auge »

Hello

I know how to separate two platforms with buffers but the question of the OP made me thinking he wanted to service two trains on (visually) one platform. And that's not, what you can achieve with separating the track with buffers. You can see this in my screenshot as shown by others before on the platforms, marked with B to D. Tracks, separated only by one buffer tile, on platforms B and C and with an additional non-track-tile and two buffers on platform D. Only platform A, built with mb's New Stations, looks visually like one platform, even it isn't.
Bildschirmfoto zu 2023-05-22 23-06-37.png
Bildschirmfoto zu 2023-05-22 23-06-37.png (46.17 KiB) Viewed 1131 times
Platform A is the only one, that (more or less) fits my interpretation of numbats initial question. I may be wrong.

Tschö, Auge
Argus
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

Yes, it is, and it is possible that I misunderstood the question with my knowledge of English. :) However, the more difficult accessibility of these stations for newcomers still remains. The other variants don't look bad either and serve the purpose just as well in my opinion... :wink:
By the way, I almost made it to option A and when I tried it, it turned out to be passable unfortunately :cry: ... I'll definitely give it a try when I get around to playing with NewStations. :)
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by ebla71 »

numbat wrote: 22 May 2023 07:02 if I have a long station (say 12 tiles long) and two short trains (say 5 tiles each), coming from opposite ends of the station, is there any way to get both trains to stop at that station at the same time, one at each end?
Yes, that's possible with the following layout: first you create the "long" platform on the center track between waypoints "Station A Platform 1B" and "Station A Track 2". Then, you separately create the two three-tile sections at both ends between waypoints "Station A Platform 1A" and "Station A Track 1" but make sure that the two tiles in the center do not have a platform on this "track 1". Finally, place path signals at the ends of each platform (and the bypass track 3) and on the two center tiles as indicated. The path signals should be those of the type that can also be passed from the back.

Then let two trains simultaneously leave from the two depots A and B at the two ends of the track. As you can see below, they will only reserve track up to the path signal that is valid for them.

This setup will work if both trains only run up to this station and then both reverse and return in the direction of depots A and B, but also combined with a third train that will go from from depot A through track 1 of station A to depot B if you tell it to go non-stop through the next waypoint after the first stop on platform 1. However, you will risk a deadlock when both trains should go depot A :arrow: depot B :arrow: depot A for the first and the other way round for the second train through track 1.

You can also do this without the platform on track 2 (center track) if you first create the first 3-tile station on one side and then create a "joint station" with CTRL-left click for the second part.

This situation is actually encountered pretty often in real-life situations when you have through stations with very high traffic, as for example in Hamburg central station, where two trains, one from the north/west and another one from the south/east can enter and stay in the same platform - although that is often confusing for the non-frequent traveller.

Two trains entering same platform:

Image

Two trains leaving same platform:

Image
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skc
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by skc »

Assuming you want to have long trains be able to use the same platform as the two short trains: No, I don't think there's any way to do it that in OTTD that won't cause issues for one of the trains.

In real life, typically:
Train 1 enters on a 'standard' proceed signal, with the aspect indicating that the section is clear of other trains.
When Train 2 gets a 'proceed' signal, it will usually indicate the 'route is set but that the section MAY be occupied'.

As OTTD doesn't have a way to simulate the 2nd part of this, there's the numerous work-arounds that have been suggested already.
If OTTD could reserve just the tiles actually needed by the train to make it into and stop at the platform, then it'd be a piece of cake to make happen.
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Argus »

Yes, then with a sufficiently long station and the "stop at the beginning of the platform" setting, there would be no problem if it was possible to arrange for the trains to turn around and not want to pass through here.
But I think there are still quite enough elegant solutions for the users to choose what suits him :)
numbat
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by numbat »

Hi All,

many thanks for the varied responses. There are lots of options in there and I will play around with a few of them to find what works best.

Regards,
Chris.
Eddi
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by Eddi »

ebla71 wrote: 23 May 2023 04:08[...] can enter and stay in the same platform - although that is often confusing for the non-frequent traveller.
this gets even worse, because on such "split" platforms trains sometimes join and split halfway through their journey, so when you entered the wrong half of the train, you can end up at the wrong destination.
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Re: Using both ends of a station

Post by ebla71 »

Eddi wrote: 24 May 2023 01:09 this gets even worse, because on such "split" platforms trains sometimes join and split halfway through their journey, so when you entered the wrong half of the train, you can end up at the wrong destination.
You're right - for this joining/splitting of trains, you also need a "middle signal" to allow a second train into a track that is already occupied, even if only partially.

In Germany, such a situation (called "flügeln") happens with quite a number of local trains, but also in the ICE network at Hamm and Hannover. In particular the latter can cause people problems when going north, because one part of the train will continue to Hamburg but the other one to Bremen.

Also not uncommon in local trains is "stärken/schwächen" (to strengthen/weaken) in certain stations, where some trains run jointly only to a particular station, then one half is left behind and only the other part continues to the final destination.
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