Quast65's TramTrackSet (v002 released on BaNaNas 30-05-2023)

[Quast65]

URatt also has a mini version, maybe that will be the solution. After all, maybe that's why he made the "less fat" version.

Couldnt hurt to ask for parameters.

Are you planning to add more vehicles to the invisible track

Not at the moment, however I keep a sharp eye on the development of "vehicles" like GarryG's marching soldiers.
Furthermore, the Invisible track will be completely following the Standardized Roadtype Scheme, so if you (or others) decide to make suitable vehicles, using the scheme, they will be able to run on the invisible track.

First of all, I want to thank both of you for taking the time to come up with the scheme and also the time you are both investing in helping me to impliment it in this set.

Secondly, I do want to tell you that I find it extremely hard to understand it sometimes... So please be patient with me

I have to tackle this step by step to try to fully understand it and what I need to do...

1. An extremely basic (possibly silly/stupid) question, but it will help me a lot to be sure instead of wondering...
The labels that you create by using the scheme, should those ONLY be used by vehicles or can they also be used by roads? (like ROAD is used by both).
If so, isnt it much better for the scheme to only apply to vehicles? To avoid roads to be overwritten/replaced if multiple roadsets are used together?

[Argus]

I have already written to Ufiby.
At the moment there doesn't seem to be a complete set of trams in NRT to complement yours, but unless Ufiby wants to add parameters, the solution for now is to use these trams with either Ratt road or CZTR. But it looks weird, with 32Bpp trams next to that metro.
Anyway, this is a provisory workaround until you release your own set of roads.

[Argus]

Now I started very early game and your subway lines are already available.
Are there plans for any earlier cars in the future?

[Quast65]

I have mode a couple of changes for the upcoming V002:
-Changed sort orders, my tracks start from number 200.
This should put them last in the list (when used in combination with other tramsets)
-Added parameters to disable speedlimits of RAIL & ELRL
-Added EABN & EACN to alternative_tramtype_list of INVI
-Added MAA3 to alternative_tramtype_list of MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR4, MTR5 & MTR6

See first post for an overview.

I will wait with further changes to V002 and its release untill I fully understand what extra/other changes I have to make.

.

For the moment, a temporary solution to your speedlimit issue, place Uratt UNDER my set in the GRF-list.
Uratt should then already override my limits (and the tracks should get Uratt's 80km/h limit).

Example818.png (32.81 KiB) Viewed 1633 times

Do note that in this screenshot the sort order is already fixed, it wont be for V001, but at least your trams should go faster.

[Quast65]

Now I started very early game and your subway lines are already available.
Are there plans for any earlier cars in the future?

Not by me, but maybe by others in other sets, so I want to be ready for that.
I think that roads(tramtracks) should not have a year-limit.

[Brickblock1]

I went ahead and added my proposal into the code:

Q65TRAMS.zip

(1.72 MiB) Downloaded 33 times

Not by me, but maybe by others in other sets, so I want to be ready for that.
I think that roads(tramtracks) should not have a year-limit.

I agree, however I think your implementation is a bit weird, wouldn't it be better to not have the introdate and instead make it so that vehicles make some of the tracks available with the rest being introduced with introduces_tramtype_list?

[Quast65]

I went ahead and added my proposal into the code

Thank for doing that, I made a list of it so its easier to see and compare with the list I thought of (see first post, I already updated that before I read your comment/change to the code)

Code: Select all

RAIL
Pow: RAIL, ELRL, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt:

ELRL
Pow: ELRL, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt:

MTR0
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAA3, MAB3

MTR1
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAA3, MAB3

MTR2
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAA3, MAB3

MTR3
Pow:
Alt:

MTR4
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR3, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAC3

MTR5
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR3, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAC3

MTR6
Pow: MTR0, MTR1, MTR2, MTR3, MTR4, MTR5, MTR6
Alt: MAC3

INVI
Pow: INVI
Alt: EAAN, EABN, EACN

Why does MTR3 not have any pow- or alt-lists?
Keep in mind that all tracks (except the two regular tramtracks) can be disabled by parameter.
If MTR4, 5 and 6 are turned off, then no vehicles would be able to drive/bought on MTR3.

Is then my list, as in first post good?

[Brickblock1]

Why does MTR3 not have any pow- or alt-lists?

It doesn't have any because there aren't meant to be any vehicles defined to run on it. Hopefully this is clear enough for you to understand (if not I have explained it poorly ).

Keep in mind that all tracks (except the two regular tramtracks) can be disabled by parameter.
If MTR4, 5 and 6 are turned off, then no vehicles would be able to drive/bought on MTR3.

This is sadly unavoidable as vehicles would otherwise end up on the wrong tracks. You could change the code so that MTR3 is dissabled if 4, 5 and 6 are, which at least makes it a bit better.

Is then my list, as in first post good?

It sadly isn't as the futuristic trams will end up on the medium fast tracks leading to them not being able to run on MTR3.

[Argus]

Yes, the set of Ufiby under yours is fine, however, for example, Waterway and SUV will already exceed the limit... However, either JF road or Rattroads are solutions.
Or I can use that set in combination with Polroad and Unspooled, or Timberwolf road. The possibilities are endless and that's the beauty of Openttd.

[Quast65]

vehicles would otherwise end up on the wrong tracks.

But how?

Example820.png (101.81 KiB) Viewed 1416 times

In this example, the futuristic metro goes everywhere (as intended)
The "normal" metro goes everywhere, EXCEPT the highspeed roofless metrotrack (as intended)

[Brickblock1]

In this example, the futuristic metro goes everywhere (as intended)
The "normal" metro goes everywhere, EXCEPT the highspeed roofless metrotrack (as intended)

For some reson I thought that you had also added MAC3 to MTR0-2 but you haven't done that. Which means it will work and you can ignore most of my comments in the last message. However MTR3 should still not have any powered or alternative types.

[Quast65]

However MTR3 should still not have any powered or alternative types.

Ok, I think I get it...
Looking again at the lists you made in my code.

By that way MTR3 behaves like MAc3 from the scheme?
And MTR0-2 behave like MAB3 (also allowing MAA3 vehicles)
MTR4-6 then behave like MAC3 or are they also MAB3 (because of MTR0-2 and MTR4-6 being in each others pow-lists)?



If that is the case, then the thing messing this all up are the turn-off parameters?
And I should think of a certain parameter-combination that also alters some of the pow- and/or alt-lists when certain tracks are disabled?
Or some kind of fallback, that at least always one MAB3 behaving tracktype exists?

[Brickblock1]

By that way MTR3 behaves like MAc3 from the scheme?
And MTR0-2 behave like MAB3 (also allowing MAA3 vehicles)

Yes, exactly like that.

MTR4-6 then behave like MAC3 or are they also MAB3 (because of MTR0-2 and MTR4-6 being in each others pow-lists)?

They behave like MAC3 which means they should be powered on MTR0-1 since those are MAB3.

If that is the case, then the thing messing this all up are the turn-off parameters?
And I should think of a certain parameter-combination that also alters some of the pow- and/or alt-lists when certain tracks are disabled?
Or some kind of fallback, that at least always one MAB3 behaving tracktype exists?

I don't think you would have to change the powered list at all but the alternative list should maybe be done so that if MTR4-6 are dissabled MAC3 vehicles will end up on MTR0-1 instead. You might be able to use

Code: Select all

tramtype_available("MAC3")

to do this without complex logic but I am not sure.

[Quast65]

.

Woohoo!!
Ok, so that was the big issue why I didnt get it.
I was constantly keeping the turn-off-parameters in mind.
I should first just start out with making a set without parameters and have that comply to the Standard Scheme.
If that all is correct, then I can think about what kind of parameters I could use to disable certain tracks and what that would mean with regards to a possible shift of pow- and/or alt-lists.
Ok, I will give that a thought.

Now, we can move onto the RAAE issue.
MTR4-6 should also allow those type of vehicles on their tracks (so not just RAAE, but also the entire family of labels), now they dont.
So I have to allow them someway on those tracks WITHOUT them coming onto MTR0-3.
Is that the issue?

[Argus]

I finally placed your trams under Uratt. Anyway, it only overrides the limit of two basic tracks, while the other, faster tram tracks remain. So I can use your lines in the city where the limit is normal, and the faster trams will run outside the city. By the way, the limits here in the Czech Republic are similar. However, with the fact that somewhere trams go to urban areas on tracks that do not lead on roads, where they can go 60 kmph, and outside residential areas even 80.

[Argus]

Maybe I ran into a bug.
Normal trams can be used on all tracks with a roof, it doesn't matter from which set.

[Quast65]

Maybe I ran into a bug.
Normal trams can be used on all tracks with a roof, it doesn't matter from which set.

That is intended behaviour.
That way you can also use these tracks as highspeed underground tramtracks (and not only metrotracks).
I'll put that info too in the first post of this thread.

[Argus]

However, this nullifies my problem to some extent
Of course it wouldn't be suitable for freight trams, it would look weird, but freight trams rarely go faster.
If I want to use your road set, I probably won't add another tram set to it if you want to use as many road slots as possible.
But there is a small cosmetic problem, if I build a track across the road, buses and trucks will pass through the "wall". It's probably not possible to ban a road crossing on a tram line, right?
This is what it looks like when a car goes underground for some reason.
By the way, my bad English is why I reported a non-existent bug . The fact that normal trams can run on covered tracks has already been discussed here several times. Of course, the info in the first post won't hurt.

[Quast65]

It's probably not possible to ban a road crossing on a tram line, right?

Nope...

[Argus]

It doesn't matter, I'll either have to think about it during construction, or I'll solve it differently.
Anyway, I'll have to be careful that I don't accidentally get a slow tram on that track. For example, some of those freight trams in my picture.
Trams from old graphic files do not recognize the track type.
By the way, I am guessing correctly that there is also nothing to be done about the visual bug where the sparkle of the tram is visible through the roof?
If I understood it correctly, the "roof" is basically just a differently drawn electrification. As with a certain old set of trolleybuses that are actually trams, only visually they are trolleybuses.
I have another visual snag with the covered track. Stations... It looks very strange with the original stations. Another thing that should probably be pointed out in the first post.
There are still a lot of players who have no idea that there are stations other than the basic ones, and as far as I know, it only works in the JGR patchpack so far.