[OTTD] Hamburg scenario 2048x2048 Development thread

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ebla71
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[OTTD] Hamburg scenario 2048x2048 Development thread

Post by ebla71 »

Over the winter holidays I got bored with the games I have been playing for a long time and decided to create a really large new "real world" scenario based on a place I have recently visited.

Can you guess what it is about based on the map shown :?:

If it is recognized I will post the scenario file here together with further details, as I also used an unusual method to create the map.

For people familiar with the area or good geographic knowledge it will probably be very easy - in this case please give a "cryptic answer" so others can continue to guess.

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Last edited by ebla71 on 07 May 2023 02:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by sprinter »

One can wunder huge miniature railway in this city.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

sprinter wrote: 05 Jan 2023 23:20 One can wunder huge miniature railway in this city.
Yes :D That place is actually almost in the center of the map and it was a huge effort to create due to the many waterways around the wunder world ...

Also, the city shares something with Sydney for a couple of years now - which was one of the reasons for my visit - but is not in Australia, au contraire

And it was rumored that long before that a headless person walked past his companions ... :lol: But that was at a time that is very rarely represented in OTTD

I am currently finishing the lower (southern) part of the map and will then post a first scenario preview here in a week or so ...
Last edited by ebla71 on 06 Jan 2023 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by WolfRamXx »

ebla71 wrote: 06 Jan 2023 08:29 Also, the city shares something with Sydney for a couple of years now
Traffic jams? :D

Or maybe certain type of train? :wink:
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

WolfRamXx wrote: 06 Jan 2023 09:16
ebla71 wrote: 06 Jan 2023 08:29 Also, the city shares something with Sydney for a couple of years now
Traffic jams? :D

Or maybe certain type of train? :wink:
Yes, this place is also (in)famous for its traffic jams, which is due to the fact that they closed a particular type of public transport in 1978.

And yes, there is a train named after this city which is indeed very special since it can also fly :lol:

But this is not the similarity with Sydney I had in mind - that was more a reference to an iconic building that both cities feature in a very special location. I've been in both for the purpose of entertainment ...
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Argus »

Rio de Janeiro?
Although I doubt it because it looks like a river delta. She is not in Rio.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

Argus wrote: 08 Jan 2023 23:10 Rio de Janeiro?
Although I doubt it because it looks like a river delta. She is not in Rio.
You are on the right track - the river delta is a prominent feature of this place, but Rio is not on such a delta and the place we're looking for here is not on that continent - and actually not on the Southern Hemisphere at all ...

But the closeness to the sea is not the only important feature - in addition to the large harbour area you see in the center of the map, another mode of transportation has one of its "cradles" here. Because if you look closely, you might recognize two airports to the center and bottom left. One is a pretty regular one, but the other is regularly visited by a very unique airplane, which however does not seem to be part of any planes NewGRF ...
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Argus »

Hamburg?
Yes, Here is the proof
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hambu ... d9.9871703
That building is undoubtedly the Philharmonic building
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

Argus wrote: 10 Jan 2023 09:53 Hamburg?
That building is undoubtedly the Philharmonic building
100% :D

Yes, the scenario will feature Hamburg and the area around it. I thought it is an interesting choice because it will allow a mix of many different modes of transportation - an extensive bus and suburban railways, the harbour area for local freight with a lot of different industries and "Maschen Rbf" in the center right, which is is the largest shunting yard in Europe and on a world-sclae only surpassed by Union Pacific (UP) Bailey Yard in the US state of Nebraska:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschen_Marshalling_Yard

Of course the harbour will allow a mix of ocean-going and riverine ships and there is the two airports already mentioned, with the Airbus Finkenwerder plant in the bottom left corner the "cradle of aviation" that was another hint and the special airplane mentioned of course the Airbus Beluga:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Beluga_XL (which unfortunately, I think is not yet in any airplane NewGRF, right?)

Finally, you were correct about the special building shared with Syndey the "Elbphilharmonie" vs. Sydney Opera House as both large concert halls are located on a very prominent place in the former harbour.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Fredinho »

Wow. Looking forward to trying this out!
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by WolfRamXx »

Ive genuinly never heard of anything from these, except the name of the city and Airbus company... Now looking at the map i really want to see how it will look like fully builded. :D
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

So congratulations to Argus for correctly guessing Hamburg as the topic of the scenario.

Now let me also resolve the other hints:

Sprinter mentioned the "Miniaturwunderland" which is the largest model railway and miniature airport in the world and located in the historic brick storage houses of the "Speicherstadt". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniatur_Wunderland

The headless person walking I mentioned is the famous pirate Klaus Störtebeker who, according to legend, walked past past eleven of his men to save their lives after he got beheaded on the "Grassbrook" in the year 1401. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_St%C3%B6rtebeker

Finally, the special train mentioned by WolfRamXx is the "Fliegender Hamburger" 1930s express train which ran an impressive 160 km/h at that time from Hamburg to Berlin. The "big brother" of this SVT 877 is actually in the DBset NewGRF as SVT 137 with different color variants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_SVT_877

Part of the scenario south of the Elbe river now almost 100% complete - hope to post within the next 2-3 days and look forward to your comments :D
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Argus »

AXIS could be the most suitable as an industry.
Of course the choice is up to the author, but I advocate at least creating a version without pre-placed industry so that everyone can choose for themselves... :bow: :)
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

Argus wrote: 10 Jan 2023 13:30 AXIS could be the most suitable as an industry.
Of course the choice is up to the author, but I advocate at least creating a version without pre-placed industry so that everyone can choose for themselves... :bow: :)
FIRS and then more recently XIS are my favorite industry NewGRFs :lol: and my previous games were all based on the latter, since I like complex "real world" scenarios with complex industry chains.

I have already noticed the announcement of AXIS and will of course closely monitor it :D I hope you keep the "complete industries" in there - for the Hamburg scenario for example it will of course heavily be focused on minerals+metals+machines and chemicals industries located in the harbour where you have an aluminium plant, plast furnace, and Aurubis, which is one of the largest copper smelters in Europe. But around it there is some quite rural areas and I would also like to have some farming industries there. For example, the so-called "Altes Land" is famous for its apple orchards.

Actually, I plan to release three different versions:
  • the bare landscape with only rivers, towns, and streets
  • a XIS (or AXIS) version with "permanent" industries placed in real-world locations
  • a savegame which additionally contains the railway tracks
About the starting date, I am still a bit unsure. I like to start early, but the harbour has changed a lot since the early 20th century, so maybe go for the 1920s?

Any other suggestions or wishes?
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Argus »

I like very early games, but I can't imagine starting this in 1850. Maybe 1890, 1900? Probably not longer :)
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by Fredinho »

Just curious about which town set you are using :)
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

Fredinho wrote: 11 Jan 2023 11:22 Just curious about which town set you are using :)
Need something stable that also works with early (pre-1900) game start and matches the typical brick house architecture of northern Germany.

Therefore, nothing special - decided for ITL Houses 2.1 and TTR 3.14 Early mod which have served me well in the last couple of years (real-live, not game).

If somebody has a significantly better suggestion, would be happy to consider but need to know quickly since have already placed a couple of dozen towns and that is actually the main part of the work.

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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by odisseus »

ebla71 wrote: 10 Jan 2023 12:46 Yes, the scenario will feature Hamburg and the area around it. I thought it is an interesting choice because it will allow a mix of many different modes of transportation - an extensive bus and suburban railways, the harbour area for local freight with a lot of different industries and "Maschen Rbf" in the center right, which is is the largest shunting yard in Europe...

Of course the harbour will allow a mix of ocean-going and riverine ships and there is the two airports already mentioned...
I'm afraid this kind of scenario won't do justice to Hamburg's enormous freight infrastrusture, as the transport it serves comes mostly from the regions (indeed, the whole world) which aren't included into the map.
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Re: [OTTD] Can you guess the place this scenario is about?

Post by ebla71 »

odisseus wrote: 11 Jan 2023 19:10 I'm afraid this kind of scenario won't do justice to Hamburg's enormous freight infrastrusture, as the transport it serves comes mostly from the regions (indeed, the whole world) which aren't included into the map.
Well, of course it will not represent like coal coming from North America or oil from Saudi Arabia but there will still be plenty of options to move around freight between the different industries.

AXIS will be very interesting in this regard, since for example alumina as a raw material for the aluminium plant can come both from the bauxit mine via the alumina refinery or the bulk terminal. Or the copper concentrate as raw material for the copper smelter can come both from the pyrite mine via pyrite smelter or the wharf. Same with iron, which can either originate from iron ore mine or bulk terminal.

So instead of featuring the raw materials industries, the scenario will have all those different harbors for import from overseas sources that will not be reflected in the scenario. Will even work with oil, since in addition to oil rig and oil well, it can now also come from liquids terminal.

Transport chains can then be from bulk terminal to shunting yard by rail, then back to secondary industry. Or moved around inside the harbour by ship.

I think that is a very clever choice to give players the alternative options to either build the whole long distance transport chains on a "whole world map" or have it start relatively local from a sea terminal with a "truncated" supply line.

Really hope AXIS will get stable enough soon to include with this scenario. However, so far
No AXIS topic yet, so I will post here pending an announcement.
viewtopic.php?p=1257366#p1257366
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[OTTD] Hamburg scenario 2048x2048

Post by ebla71 »

Ok, as promised, here a first version of the Hamburg scenario. This is mostly a "sneak preview" and will very likely not be playable by anyone but very experienced players willing to put in quite some effort themselves, as only the lower (southern) part of the map is yet "populated".

Still, I wanted to share it early and would very much appreciate your comments on what is already there.

The map size is 2048x2048 and with "real world" dimensions of about 40x40 km, each tile is equivalent to about 20 meters (40000/2048), which should match pretty well with the size of common buildings and vehicles. So given that it's just one city and the area around it, I consider this as huge :D

It is planned to include all small villages and towns down to a size of a few hundred inhabitants and also bascially all paved roads between cities, with the exception of the highways, where open space will be left to build them later during a running game, not to interfere with an early game (pre-1950s).

Below, you can see where this will go, with the part south of the Elbe river now done, which is about 15-20% of the whole map, so it will likely take another couple of weeks to months at the minimum to do the rest (I also have a busy day job, after all, and mostly do this for relaxation in the evening).

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In the game, the different suburbs of Hamburg will all be represented as separate towns of different size to better manage them, but of course if you want to grow a single "megacity" you can delete them all in the scenario editor :lol: An example of the part around the "Süderelbe" is shown below.

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hamburg_pic04.png
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After completing placement of all town and suburbs as well as streets, I plan to release three different versions of the scenario:
  • A "basic" one with just the landscape, settlements, and roads to supplement with an industry set of your own choice
  • A version which additionally has all major industries placed in "real-world" locations, most likely based on XIS or AXIS, if it is offically released by then and stable
  • A savegame also including the railway tracks, where one could for example focus on building the different S-Bahn and suburban train services
Will later also explain in this thread how I created the scenario, since it was pretty unusual relative to what is normally described here ...
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