[NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

[Limyx826]

Electric tramway is available by 1725 when pair with EGVRTS.

Yes, tramways are always available, even without any vehicle set.

Electric tramways wasn't introduced until around 1880 so seeing them in 1700s seem quite out of world. I had made some changes to the electric tramways as shown below and it seem like electric tramways won't be introduced unless 1880 is reached or an electric tram is introduced. Hopefully you will implement this into your GRF.

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_TRAMTYPES, item_electric_tramtrack, 14) {
	property {
		label:                       "ELRL";
		introduction_date:           (param_intro_year == 0) ? date(1880,01,01) : 0;

[Andrew350]

Easy enough; I'll add it to my to-do list for 1.1

[Limyx826]

Here's a version where I change to this.

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_TRAMTYPES, item_electric_tramtrack, 14) {
	property {
		label:                       "ELRL";
		introduction_date:           (param_intro_year == 0) ? date(1880,01,01) : 0;

[JacobD88]

Just a heads up, when using the latest nightlies, RattRoads causes an error on map generation "Map generation aborted... ... No suitable town locations"

This happens even when the GRF is the only one loaded

Parameter is set to EU / UK roads

CFG attached

[Andrew350]

Hi Jacob, thank you for bringing this to my attention

I narrowed down the cause to this commit from a few weeks ago: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10546

I guess towns are no longer able to build hidden road types for some reason? I didn't try tracking down the explanation for the change listed, as there's just a rather cryptic chat snippet given on the ticket, so I'm not sure what the purpose is. All I know is it has broken the ability for towns to build roads before the year 1940 when using this set, so unfortunately that means no early starts using RattRoads on the latest nightlies until I can figure out a fix.

Sorry for the inconvenience and again thank you for letting me know!

[kamnet]

I didn't try tracking down the explanation for the change listed, as there's just a rather cryptic chat snippet given on the ticket, so I'm not sure what the purpose is.

The explanation is that hidden road types were never meant to be buildable. They were intended to be a way for vehicles meant to operate on one type of road to operate on another type of road that is technically incompatible.

If you want a town to build an earlier type of town road, you need to explicitly define what that road is.

[Andrew350]

If you want a town to build an earlier type of town road, you need to explicitly define what that road is

But that's just it: We ARE defining a road to have exactly the behavior we intend for it to have. It may not have been the originally intended use of that flag, but I guess as a sort of happy accident it turned out to have another usecase which I and other authors have been using as a way to create an intentional effect.

Just saying "we didn't expect it to be used this way" isn't much of an argument to block off behavior unless leaving this additional behavior open somehow detriments the flag's original intended purpose or somehow causes issues with the game. That's what I'm missing here. There very well may be some valid consequence to leaving this as it was, I'm just not seeing it, and could use some clarification on the "why" part of this decision, or if indeed the devs even realized we were using it this way. I'll try over the weekend to get on chat and see if one of the devs is available to discuss it.

[Auge]

Hello

If you want a town to build an earlier type of town road, you need to explicitly define what that road is

But that's just it: We ARE defining a road to have exactly the behavior we intend for it to have. It may not have been the originally intended use of that flag, but I guess as a sort of happy accident it turned out to have another usecase which I and other authors have been using as a way to create an intentional effect.

I checked my own road set with JGRPP 0.52.1 (which includes the questionable commit). Also in my set the road type ROAD is hidden. Nevertheless, the game ist able to build town roads at the start of the game. Possibly the reason is, that I defined two roads to be buildable by towns by setting alternative_roadtype_list("ROAD") for those road types.

Maybe this is the solution.

Tschö, Auge

[Andrew350]

Hello

I checked my own road set with JGRPP 0.52.1 (which includes the questionable commit). Also in my set the road type ROAD is hidden. Nevertheless, the game ist able to build town roads at the start of the game. Possibly the reason is, that I defined two roads to be buildable by towns by setting alternative_roadtype_list("ROAD") for those road types.

Maybe this is the solution.

Tschö, Auge

From what I just read on Discord it seems that JGR has added a special exception for the "ROAD" roadtype to still be built by towns even if it's hidden, only to work as a fallback in case no other roads are available.

[Auge]

Hello

I checked my own road set with JGRPP 0.52.1 (which includes the questionable commit). … the game ist able to build town roads at the start of the game.

From what I just read on Discord it seems that JGR has added a special exception for the "ROAD" roadtype to still be built by towns even if it's hidden, only to work as a fallback in case no other roads are available.

I tested my set in a build of the current main branch. Even here The game builds roads. The screenshot shows a new generated game with my set as the only loaded NRT set (see the town on the left).

Bildschirmfoto zu 2023-03-29 18-46-15.png (61.47 KiB) Viewed 1718 times

Tschö, Auge

[Andrew350]

Hi all, after a long hiatus I have made a long overdue update to RattRoads. Version 1.1.0 finally addresses the fairly serious bug where Electrified Basic Asphalt Road was not compatible with non-electric vehicles or roadtypes. Also included are some requested QOL features and minor general improvements. As usual it is available on the fruit store or the first post here and is compatible with versions 1.0+, however do note that I've bumped the minimum OpenTTD version to 13.0 to accommodate the recent ability to define tunnel-specific sprites. Also, as discussed in the last few posts the issue with recent nightlies is still ongoing, so keep that in mind if you are using them!

If you encounter any other issues or have any comments on the changes please let me know

- fixed issue of electric basic asphalt being incompatible with non-electric vehicles
- enabled new 'tunnels' sprites to reduce overlapping issues with tunnel portals
(improved sprites to come later)
- bumped minimum OTTD version to 13.0 (still savegame compatible)

- modern asphalt road will no longer be built by towns
- modern asphalt and dirt roads have new parameter option to disable houses
- improved build menu text to show which roadtypes disable houses

- improved dirt road bridge overlay texture
- changed electric tramtrack (ELRL) intro date to 1880 (was 0)
- changed electric sett pavement (ELSP) intro date to 1880 (was 1882)

[JohnFranklin523]

- modern asphalt road will no longer be built by towns
- modern asphalt and dirt roads have new parameter option to disable houses
- improved build menu text to show which roadtypes disable houses

- improved dirt road bridge overlay texture
- changed electric tramtrack (ELRL) intro date to 1880 (was 0)
- changed electric sett pavement (ELSP) intro date to 1880 (was 1882)

For me it's good and realistic, but for those who want vehicles as fast as possible, they will be sad when their cars could no longer run up to 85mph by default in towns...

[Argus]

But again, better than 120 in cities. Moreover, if there are more stops, the buses will rarely take it to more than 70 anyway.

[Andrew350]

For me it's good and realistic, but for those who want vehicles as fast as possible, they will be sad when their cars could no longer run up to 85mph by default in towns...

That is what the convert road tool is good for

[peter1138]

I tested my set in a build of the current main branch. Even here The game builds roads.

The issue is affected by start date of the game, as one set disables town buildable roads before a certain date.

There is a ticket open on the bug tracker about this, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10574

[Auge]

Hello

For me it's good and realistic, but for those who want vehicles as fast as possible, they will be sad when their cars could no longer run up to 85mph by default in towns...

That is what the convert road tool is good for

... or other road sets.

I tested my set in a build of the current main branch. Even here The game builds roads.

The issue is affected by start date of the game, as one set disables town buildable roads before a certain date.

There is a ticket open on the bug tracker about this, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10574

IMHO it is a bug of the set if a road set forbids any town buildable road types at any date in the game. It is a basic mechanic of the game that towns have streets. It's absolute nonsense, that a road set forbids any town buildable road type before or after a certain date.

Tschö, Auge

[Andrew350]

Hi all, I've just released what is likely going to be the final (major) update to RattRoads!

rattroads2.png (77.8 KiB) Viewed 1107 times

This one is all about graphics, the most notable being the addition of new custom tramtrack graphics to finally replace the default ones. This includes much-improved catenary sprites borrowed from Unspooled, which now also replace the catenary sprites for trolleybuses as well. Also included are the previously promised properly shaded tunnel entrances, a bit of snow thrown on the Highways, and some slope and snow-aware one-way road indicators to make those look a bit better (and actually visible on snowy roads, for once). Oh, and also two new tramtypes, because why not!

As usual the set can be found on BaNaNaS or the first post of this thread. Please let me know if you encounter any issues, otherwise: Enjoy!

[Limyx826]

I had checked out the new version of tram tracks. So, the basic tram track and concrete tram track are just aesthetics difference?

[Argus]

The only thing I don't like about Ratt Roads is that cities build fast roads within the city. Couldn't it be treated somehow?
I don't really like it when there is a new road in the city center with a 90 km/h limit - it's complete nonsense in the city.
Uratt did it beautifully.

[Andrew350]

I had checked out the new version of tram tracks. So, the basic tram track and concrete tram track are just aesthetics difference?

Correct.

The only thing I don't like about Ratt Roads is that cities build fast roads within the city. Couldn't it be treated somehow?

Try using the "harder" speed option in the parameters. City roads (all roads, really) will be set to lower, more realistic speeds, in this case city roads max out at 50 km/h. I've been wondering if I shouldn't just change that to the default setting since it's what I (and I suspect a lot of people?) use all the time anyway.