Squid Ate FISH! 2.0.2 Released 8th April 2015

[Kev]

When changing the speed parameter to cheating all the costs, running costs and speeds increase as expected, but it also raises the cost and running cost of all other ship newgrf's you have installed, the speeds of the other ship newgrf's stay the same.

I would expect the cost, running cost and speed of all other ship newgrf's to be unaffected.

[andythenorth]

When changing the speed parameter to cheating all the costs, running costs and speeds increase as expected

Nah they're not.

Speed is increased or decreased by the speed parameter. Run cost and buy cost are unaffected by the speed parameter.

Something else is wrong somewhere

[Kev]

Something else is wrong somewhere

Sorry!!

i had the running costs/puchase costs at easy and medium and was trying to compare them

[c933103]

can it add sth like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster ?

[RichardJGE]

can it add sth like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster ?

The Caspian was an experimental aircraft, so it is highly unlikely to be given much attention for the set; furthermore, I cannot see why a shipping set would start adding planes. Surely that would just be a hassle?

Best,
R.

[kamnet]

An ekranoplan neither a ship nor an airplane. It is a ground effect vehicle (GEV).

But for purposes of OpenTTD, they are effectively ships. Zepherys released a rudamentary ekranoplan set several years ago, although it doesn't have any real stats. I did some research into stats for real-life ekranoplans and other GEVs. If anybody is interested in drawing them and turning them into a functional set, let me know.

[andythenorth]

I don't like some aspects of Squid. I'm keeping quiet about what I like and don't like for now. I want some player opinions for balance.

If you could change one thing in Squid what would it be?

Which thing would you most of all keep the same?

How well does Squid 'fit' to your games? Are there gaps, or surplus vehicles?

[leifbk]

I think that Fish 2 / Squid is mostly fine, and by far the best ship set there is in OpenTTD. There are two things that I think could need some improvement:

1) Increase the capacity of the Cadiz to 550-600 tons. As it is now, it's too close to the Marstein in capacity, and as the Marstein goes about the job faster, the Cadiz comes out as a loser.

2) Some improvement in speed for the tankers after about 1970. I'm using Eddystone and Hopetown a lot, but they perform poorly compared to the later cargo ships. The Yokohama is too big for my taste.

[romazoon]

one thing i d change : make all model having various graphics getting available overtime (automatic, like the harbour point utility vessel), i like to have graphics variety, and would not mind seeing for exemple the old tankers sharing orders with some of the newers tankers and because i use autoseparation i d need them having the same speed at least.

one thing i would not change : the capacities, the speed, andythenorth

Squid fit quite well to my game in general, i just wish sometime squid would come with some newobject ships...in order to have matching ships docked in my Marico or ISR harbor. And on the side of gaps i m thinking a smallish refrigerated ship could really be neat as well as a more modern one than the existing one (more capacity), and no surplus, i find use for pretty much all of them, depending on the map i play ofc

[oftcrash]

I'm a big fan of Squid, but I also find myself using both Squid and FISH 1 due to some of the missing, faster passenger options. The hydrofoils provide some speed options before the hovercraft are available. I also use Sailing Ships and NewShips, though the NewShips are substantially more expensive without much capacity, but they provide some visual variety when money isn't an issue.

I like the Paddle Steamers, but I find their capacity to be too high, especially the Fastnet since there doesn't seem to be a similar capacity option in the future. A large cruise ship would be handy for the later game.

I also really like the two fishing ships you have, but again, I find the capacity too small in the later game. A large industrial trawler would be handy. Right now I find myself using the reefer to fill in that gap. Still, not a huge deal, as I'm using gathering points with reefers there to take large capacities of fish to port. Oh, there is one thing with the fishing ships - when they are on the fishing grounds, having the booms swing out to the sides would look cool

For bulk cargo, I like what's there. I don't have any problems with the capacities and tend to use both highest capacity ships quite a bit. If anything, having a supertanker would be awesome for a high capacity transport from gathering points, but its not a huge deal. I usually use a few Yokahamas for that. One thing I DO miss is the container ship from FISH 1 - it just looks great, and the visual feedback on the current cargo amount is great. Heck, more container ships would be awesome!

All in all, even if you don't change a thing, I'll continue using the set as its by far the best ship set in the game.

[supermop]

I also often find that many times it is always better to use x small ships of y/x capacity relative to 1 big ship of y capacity, the costs and running costs are scaled such that there really isn't a difference in using one big or several small ships, and you end up with easier bootstraping and smoother cargo flow with the small ships. Result is I almost never use the big ships, although I don't care that much. It just seems like a shame that some variety of sprites is going unused. Maybe there is some mechanical solution in that at least later big ships are somehow more efficient.

In Fish 1 I used the barges a lot, but i don't find myself missing them now. I also miss the hydrofoils, not for mechanics, but more because I like the way they look for inland bays better than hovercrafts. Is the LVAC gone now? I always found that one to be cute. I would like some smallish, fast loading catamaran watertaxis as a medium speed option maybe.

This past weekend took the Governors Island ferry - a small Roll-Roll ferry. Maybe bring one of those back?

Mechanically what I miss most is very small and medium boats, as well as something to make the biggest ships more attractive.

[Hafting]

I don't like some aspects of Squid. I'm keeping quiet about what I like and don't like for now. I want some player opinions for balance.

If you could change one thing in Squid what would it be?

Which thing would you most of all keep the same?

How well does Squid 'fit' to your games? Are there gaps, or surplus vehicles?

Squid works well with my games. Perhaps the tankers could be re-fit to some small amount of other cargo - that'd make it easier to bring engineering supplies on return trips. But perhaps that isn't done in real life? One can always dream of extra zoom levels - not so blocky when zooming in. The only "problem" I have is not the fault of squid: When I upgrade to faster passenger ships, I need to re-do the timetables on lots of routes (or the ships just sits in harbours waiting, due to routes meant for slower ships.) So I tend to delay passenger routes until the fastest ships become available.

Having some of the ships available with color alternatives (especially passenger ships) could be nice, because one can then color different routes differently. I sometimes do that with planes which support "alternate color scheme".

[andythenorth]

Thanks, that's all useful. Any more?

Any comments help, but especially I am curious about capacities.

What's the smallest useful pax or cargo capacity?

What steps should capacity increase by, from small to large? Linear, geometric, irregular?

Is it useful to have many smaller ships covering a range of sizes in the 0-200t range, or does that bloat the buy menu?

[leifbk]

Thanks, that's all useful. Any more?

Any comments help, but especially I am curious about capacities.

What's the smallest useful pax or cargo capacity?

For cargo, somewhere between 50 and 100.

What steps should capacity increase by, from small to large? Linear, geometric, irregular?

Geometric, no doubt. For cargo, something like {75, 150, 300, 600, 1200} is just fine, and that's not very different from what you've got today.

Is it useful to have many smaller ships covering a range of sizes in the 0-200t range, or does that bloat the buy menu?

When the Meteor comes in the 60s, I usually replace both the Whitgifts and the Cumbraes with it. Some of the Cumbraes will be upgraded to Marsteins, though. For my part, the current range of small cargo ships works very well.

[lcd_47]

Any comments help, but especially I am curious about capacities.

I believe the useful parameter to look at is the total throughput, not the capacity (that is you also need to take into account the speed). It's been a while since I played with ships and I no longer remember all details, but I generally tend to run into this problem of ships being either too small or too big for what I want to do. Too small means I need an Armada just to transport fish from a single fishing ground. Too big means very long waiting times for the ships to arrive, followed by a small army of trains wanting to go to the same destination. Worse, these big, slow ships take occasional detours for service rather than going straight to the docks, which means even longer waiting times. Yes, I often wished there was something in between.

[leifbk]

Worse, these big, slow ships take occasional detours for service rather than going straight to the docks

The trick is to include mandatory depot visits in the orders list. For ships, that will usually mean a depot visit per round-trip, before each loading. For really long routes (more than 14-15 months), there should also be a depot visit immediately after unloading at the destination.

[kamnet]

I realize it may lead to some bloating, but what about a per-ship range of capacity via refits? For example a ship might be refit to either 20, 30 or 40 tons of cargo, the next step up is a ship of 40-50-60 tons of cargo, etc.

[Quast65]

My gamestyle is more focussed on eyecandy rather than making profit, so maybe these suggestions arent really good for this set, but I would like to see some small ships that can make lakes a bit more interesting.
Like small sailingships, motorboats (or even speedboats), allround pleasureboats so to say, or/and small fishingships.

I understand that these will probably not be able to generate a lot of income, so maybe not really suited for this set. But maybe something to consider as a side project....

[Alberth]

Sounds more like a newobjects newgrf, tbh

[Quast65]

Sounds more like a newobjects newgrf, tbh

Yes and kinda no
Yes, but it will need animation to make it really interesting, and then maybe over several tiles (because a small boat doing turns on a single tile will get boring eventually).
No, because newobjects take up at least a tile, that might block other shipping.
Furthermore I was more thinking along the lines of zero-cost vehicles. There are already small cars to make streets more interesting, there are also small planes available in some sets, so one can have more fun with several small airfields (especially the grass airfield), but there arent really any small ships/boats that you can use to make water a bit more interesting....
Most shipping sets are focussed on ships that go into the high seas, I miss ships/boats that you can use for inland water (lakes, rivers, canals) or along the coast.

But, like I said earlier, this may not be a thing for this set...