NFO Editor [splited offtopic]

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 09 Dec 2003 02:07

gmyx wrote:I don't see what difference it makes to you what developpement platform I choose to use.

You wouldn't, would you? I bet you're not even be so considerate towards your users as to make it free software either...

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 09 Dec 2003 07:13

Here we go again

Arathorn · Post by **Arathorn** » 09 Dec 2003 11:50

I don't think gmyx gives a damn about his program's users, nor should he.
Be glad he releases it and is even willing to listen to comments., if you want something else make it yourselves.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Dec 2003 16:26

If you don't use Windows on principle, how the heck do you play TTD? Have you gotten it to run in Linux? Somebody asked about that once but I don't think anybody's ever done it.

Surely you don't still have a computer that runs only DOS do you?

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 09 Dec 2003 17:35

krtaylor wrote:If you don't use Windows on principle, how the heck do you play TTD? Have you gotten it to run in Linux? Somebody asked about that once but I don't think anybody's ever done it.

Still working on it - might have nailed it last night ...

Surely you don't still have a computer that runs only DOS do you?

What else do you propose I do with my 486?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Dec 2003 17:50

Windows 95b runs very well on a 486 and is perfectly useful for email, web-browsing, writing papers an Office 97, that sort of thing. I don't have any around anymore but I got rid of my last one just last year.

I got off of DOS as soon as I could because I kept running into that stupid core-memory limitation that Windows 95 and up get rid of. But of course I still use the DOS window to do things that you can't easily do, or can't do at all, in the Windows interface.

But hey, if you can make TTD work under Linux, now THAT would be highly worthy.

GoneWacko · Post by **GoneWacko** » 10 Dec 2003 14:55

//slap $me

that's what you get when you don't read the entire topic ^^

Why use the microsoft language... ??

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 10 Dec 2003 15:28

krtaylor wrote:Windows 95b runs very well on a 486 and is perfectly useful for email, web-browsing, writing papers an Office 97, that sort of thing.

Unless you've forgotten, those are things you technically need to buy, but have been EOL'd making it difficult to pick up a copy that you know to be 100% legal (not a copy, not been copied before sale, etc.). OTOH, I had some backup DOS disks lying around which still worked ...

But hey, if you can make TTD work under Linux, now THAT would be highly worthy.

Give me a week, and we'll see where I end up

/me slaps GoneWacko

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 Dec 2003 16:22

Actually I can tell you where online you can buy a perfectly legal hologram license of Windows 95. It doesn't come with the CD but you can easily make a copy from someone else, that's scrupulously legal as long as you have the hologram license.

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 11 Dec 2003 09:04

gmyx wrote:Ok... to finish the talk about VB. I choose VB because I AM a VB programmer.

The phrase "VB Programmer" is an oxymoron, like "Microsoft Works."

If you get it to work on *nix, that's excelent (and keep working on improving *nix).

"Improving *nix?" You say that as if *nix is the broken OS in all this

Of course, it can't realistically be made to work because it's a VB program. Since it's people like me that are creating graphics, you are missing a fair part of your target audience by only writing apps for broken, standards-ignorant OSs. Unless I'm very much mistaken, there are at least 5 OSs in use by members of this forum (want to try counting?). Writing it so that it works for you, then not even offering the rest of us the common decency the opportunity to get it working, to me sounds selfish. There are few reasons for not going Open Source (and clearly yours aren't among them), the rest is just poor excuses. I hate it when people impose restrictions on their software based on the assumption that their time alone is worth something to people. It's the usefulness of the software that determines its value, not how much time you've put into it.

(Zealot? Me?)

Do you really care what language a company / individual chooses for their applications? I can tell you I dont, as long as it works.

Company, no. Individual, yes. Don't go throwing "company" and "individual" together. The company is run for profit. You, OTOH, should know better than to lock out your users. As for "as long as it works," you're use VB, ergo it doesn't.

I'm doing this a a favor to the community and to assist myselft and other to author new graphics quicker and easier. This kind of feedbad is neither needed nor usefull.

It's very useful feedback. I would find something like this immensely useful, yet nobody has yet written a decent usable tool. I'm no assembly language programmer, so understandably fishing through a maze of hex digits is a pain. Yet, this tool is useless to me and numerous others because of the brain-damaged choice of programming language that would make people like me reboot just to do some editing (even then, that assumes I actually have a Windows boot on this machine). See, it's very useful feedback.

A while ago, I started working on something which people can actually make use of, since the source is available for people to hack and chew upon, and to improve as necessary. Of course, if you carry on like this, then either one or the other project is redundant. I'd rather that a cross-platform solution (albeit an incomplete one) wasn't made redundant by a broken one. It annoys me even more that I can't learn anything from your code, since you're being an idiot and locking it away from people that want to do something useful for the community - a closed-source VB tool most certainly is not that.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 11 Dec 2003 11:37

Chris, your reaction is totally amazing. Everything in your reaction points to the fact that you know how individuals should develop tools and then everyone else is a moron (at least). May I ask you what the latest tool you released was? I haven't released one either but then I don't claim to be a superior creature when it comes down to programming either. Why don't you let gmyx write his tool the way he wants it and judge his tool by how it works? And if you're so much against VB then just don't use it. Period.

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 11 Dec 2003 11:49

I'm glad other people find it boring too
Always the same reactions to people who make something

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 11 Dec 2003 13:42

Hyronymus wrote:May I ask you what the latest tool you released was?

I assume that PHP applications for tracking bookmarks and multple-choice tests, a tool for use in breaking subsitution and transposition ciphers using MATLAB, small crappy Java applets for adding and subtracting lengths in imperial feet-and-inches style, another crappy applet for running sorting algorithms, an even crappier applet demonstrating binary trees with optionally reversing the direction for insertion (the code in that one is particularly brain-damaged), a small applet to tell if three given lines form a triangle, an simple implementation of wc which works almost as well as GNU wc, an address book with postcode validation, a PoC library system, a group of scripts to aid software translators, and a unit conversion library don't really count, do they? I suppose that the fact that they were all a11y-friendly (if not so for i18n/l10n) also counts for nothing. (Those come to a sum total of 6 languages, all within the last 6-7 months - with no OS dependence. Now, to find time to learn another language ...)

I'll tell you what, you spend 50 hours a week working on a degree course, and another 20 hours per week in a job, and then tell me if you have time left to run off a useful new tool every week, from scratch. When you do that, *then* you might have earned the right to tell me where to go.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 11 Dec 2003 14:03

ChrisCF: STOP NOW!

If you want to call people idiots go somwhere else,
if you don't like VB, ok, but If somebody likes to work with it, let him.

Currently I will simple ignore your statement about VB Programmers.

You far away behind the border.

Ohh, and keep away from my grdtogrf tool. (because you say I am an idiot too )

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 11 Dec 2003 15:31

Good grief, we have a religious war here!

Look people, all my servers run on Linux, and my company only does programming for Unix based systems (because they are more reliable). I hate .NET and I don't want to program in Windows for many many reasons.

BUT it is an unavoidable FACT that the overwhelming majority of the world uses Windows, and anything you do has to work with it. I may program for Linux servers (we do Web-based systems) but you had darn well better be able to browse it with Internet Explorer on a Windows PC.

It is also an unavoidable fact that TTD runs on Windows. Thus, it would be very silly to write a tool to be used with it that worked on Linux but not on Windows. VB, like it or not, is by far the most common tool for writing Windows programs, and may even be the easiest and most efficient. (I've never used it, but that's what they say anyway...)

The bottom line is, whatever works, works. Does VB work? Clearly it does, there are tons and tons of programs in it. Are Unix tools better? Probably, but irrelevant, because the market has decided that VB is good enough for most apps.

Look, if someone is writing something free of charge, then they have the right to write it however they like. They can use Sanskrit for all I care. If it doesn't work, they'll look silly. If it works, who cares how they did it? If you don't like it, write something better. If you don't have time, fine, nobody is forcing you to write or contribute anything.

In short, someone who says it cannot be done ought not to get in the way of someone who is doing it.

I recommend this topic be locked, at least temporarily, until tempers have cooled.

gmyx, I trust ChrisCF's immoderate remarks will not prevent you from writing the tool, as you see fit to do it.

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 11 Dec 2003 23:50

Actually, TTD is a dos-based game, or a Win16-based game,....

gmyx · Post by **gmyx** » 11 Dec 2003 23:52

Lilman424 wrote:Actually, TTD is a dos-based game, or a Win16-based game,....

You are correct for the DOS (original version) but I belive the Windows version is Win32, but could be wrong on this one.

mp3Pro · Post by **mp3Pro** » 11 Dec 2003 23:53

and I always goit the impression that most *nix users are elitist

Andrex · Post by **Andrex** » 12 Dec 2003 05:44

I'm sorry but the development of this tool will be indefinitely halted. There are tons of programs that do exactly what I need and beyond, the only issue is that they cointain forbidden words like trial

, shareware

, demo

, expires

...

http://www.finestimage.com/cgi-bin/odp/ ... verters%2F

Despite I might be able to unlock the programs, I don't consider it properly to distribute this information with my software.

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 12 Dec 2003 07:53

krtaylor wrote:Look, if someone is writing something free of charge, then they have the right to write it however they like.

True, but as far as implementing it in a real programming language that'll work on all systems is concerned, I can't port code that I can't see, and it's wasteful to write another new tool because someone is too selfish to share the body of their work as well as the fruit. Is it too much to ask at least for source? Didn't think so.

Andrex wrote:There are tons of programs that do exactly what I need and beyond, the only issue is that they cointain forbidden words

Erm, ... I thought the goal here was an NFO editor. Why does it need to show the contents of the PCX file? :/

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