Can we have cabooses/guard vans?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 27 Nov 2003 00:29

It's clearly possible to make new traincars, even useless ones, just for looks - the tenders are an example of that.

Therefore, would it be possible for the various sets to include cabooses or guard vans? Of course those are rarely used nowadays, but in the past they were essential.

I think that each of the sets could include an appropriate end-of-train-vehicle graphic. For instance, the (North American) Arctic set would get a little red caboose, the BR set would have a guard van, Tropicset would have a wooden box, etc.

Thoughts anyone?

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » 27 Nov 2003 00:35

This would be up to the graphics maker, not to the patch folks... I'd be happy to toss a caboose into whatever graphics set I might end up making, though.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 27 Nov 2003 00:39

As long as the graphics makers know how to make a new vehicle type...
Good point. Can a mod move this thread into the Graphics forum? Thanks.

Edit by spiff: ok

zero1000 · Post by **zero1000** » 27 Nov 2003 10:09

it's a very good idea to have gabooses etc.
for DB set already an 'useless' train is planned, a maintenance and repair train set for the overhead wires (BR 701): http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2480&start=780

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 28 Nov 2003 01:21

zero1000 wrote:it's a very good idea to have gabooses etc.
for DB set already an 'useless' train is planned, a maintenance and repair train set for the overhead wires (BR 701): http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2480&start=780

Thats set to be out when track maintenence costs start to happen, and I dunno when that is (thats up to the patch team), and whilst it is cool, I understand all the time constraints and stuff, so I can wait

.

Guardvans would be very cool, even though we never really had them in Oztralia for many years. I like it!

Flavius · Post by **Flavius** » 28 Nov 2003 16:41

Yes a very good idea and adding to the romance of playing TT. In addition perhaps they could be made not available after a certain year as in the real world. This addition however would add to station lengths and costs.

In Australia i think freight trains still have guards.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 28 Nov 2003 16:43

Here's a link to a bunch of images of British guard vans that would be appropriate:

http://www.semg.org.uk/vandw/brakevans01.html

A good-looking American caboose:

http://www.wagonandcarriage.co.uk/Premi ... /g6200.jpg

And a German brake van. Very hard to find since I don't speak German:

http://www.tee-usa.com/f8302.html

I remember seeing one with kind of a "tower" on one end, that would be very cool.

mp3Pro · Post by **mp3Pro** » 28 Nov 2003 17:31

better looking American caboose

http://www.alsnscale.com/rr-caboose.jpg

more...
http://www.btinternet.com/~kentgardenra ... age815.jpg (interesting cupla on this one)
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/kootenai/caboose.jpg
http://home.iccas.com/chrisgsr/SP%20C40 ... ostwar.jpg
http://www.bowser-trains.com/nscale/n5/ ... ntenna.jpg

Bay window ... these are actually more common now

http://www.mikes-hobbyshop.com/graphics ... a12051.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips6 ... aboose.jpg
http://www.wrighttrak.com/images/soubaycab2.gif

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 28 Nov 2003 17:49

The cupola cabooses would be better because it is more obvious that it is a caboose. The cupola can be in the middle or at the rear, but regardless, it must be Bright Red.

But really, the American cabooses would only fit in on the current Arctic set. More important are the German, Dutch and British brake vans. I did my best but those are kind of hard to come by if you don't speak German or Dutch. Any help?

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 29 Nov 2003 10:05

Brake vans where very important pre-diesels because there were no air brakies and the emergency brake was in the gards van, but now they are built into each goods carriage

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 29 Nov 2003 15:47

True. But brake vans were often seen on European railways until the end of the 1960s, and since the Patch goes back to 1921, it makes sense to include them.

Also, even with modern trains, a long freight train will sometimes have a caboose for safety reasons.

Spaceball · Post by **Spaceball** » 30 Nov 2003 01:36

I've just tried to find pictures of german brake vans. Even for me its hard to find pictures of them. The german name is bremswagen.

cu, Spaceball

nilsi · Post by **nilsi** » 30 Nov 2003 13:24

Are you sure? Gueterzug Begleitwagen seems more likely...
I still do not get the point, we are talking about waggons the goods train personal is in and it can break *this* one waggon?
What about "Bremserhaeuschen" (brake cabins) on many of the waggons?
For me they are much better. Or is the special waggon for the brake cabin personal to have lunch in / have a stove (heating) in the winter?

Hope someone can clarify it for me ...

Begleitwagen (caboose):
http://www.kleinserien.de/d/a/bah/34174.htm

brake cabin:
http://www.piko.de/d/artikel/54265.htm

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 30 Nov 2003 13:26

The brake cabins are more modern, and not noticeable at the scale of TTD. Before the 1960s, freight trains generally had separate, dedicated brake wagons or guard vans in which the brakeman would sit and operate brakes as required. Sometimes they also stored small piece cargo bu I think that is too hard to replicate here.

Spaceball · Post by **Spaceball** » 30 Nov 2003 19:59

Well I am not very into Trains. I play TTD more from the strategy point of view. So I don't know about all the different waggons Train Companies used.

It would also be very interesting to see armoured waggons. Waggons with Jeeps or Tanks on it. They don't need to carry any goods aroung. Were I grew up the German Army often transportet tanks and armoured Transporters with the Deutsche Bahn. If there would any waggons transporting Tanks or Jeeps it could be an military movement between two army barracks.

cu, Spaceball

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 30 Nov 2003 20:31

Well, there is a heavy-load Goods Wagon that has a bulldozer on it. You could easily draw a different version of it with tanks instead, maybe a howitzer also.

nilsi · Post by **nilsi** » 30 Nov 2003 21:46

krtaylor wrote:
"The brake cabins are more modern"
Well here in Germany (with shorter distances between towns)
ordinary waggons with somebody sitting on a chair (later in a cabin)
and braking a goods van are not at all modern, they have been in use at least since 1850, probably earlier...
About US I do not know :-)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 01 Dec 2003 01:57

As far as I know nothing like that was ever used in the US. I didn't know the Germans had used that method, from the examples shown the brake-on-a-normal-car looked more modern than the brake van.

mp3Pro · Post by **mp3Pro** » 01 Dec 2003 02:44

the US used brakemen in the caboose who would run back and forth ontop of the cars applying the handbrakes prior to the invention of reliable airbrakes

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 01 Dec 2003 02:51

Correct. I don't think the brakemen ever had to perch on the end of a car permanently, they had the caboose to hang out in, or at least the engine cab. US railways had real cabs earlier, and cabooses, I suppose because US weather is more extreme and harsh than that of most of Europe.

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