Sailing Ships - Development Topic

[Supercheese]

One more thing - it's 1873 in the game and Windjammer hasn't show up yet. Is this something you've silently fixed since 0.5? Is there an incompatibility between your Sailing Ships and FISH (they start in 1870, than the Windjammer is suppose to appear)?

OTTD randomizes introduction dates for vehicles, up to a point. A vehicle that the GRF says should show up in year X might not show up until X+1 or so. See: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5086?project=1

[bjgttd]

One more thing - it's 1873 in the game and Windjammer hasn't show up yet. Is this something you've silently fixed since 0.5? Is there an incompatibility between your Sailing Ships and FISH (they start in 1870, than the Windjammer is suppose to appear)?

OTTD randomizes introduction dates for vehicles, up to a point. A vehicle that the GRF says should show up in year X might not show up until X+1 or so. See: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5086?project=1

Yes, I realize that, but by now it would be X+6 - is that big delay even possible?

[Eddi]

it's up to 512 days (almost 2 years), plus another year if you're banned from prototypes. so 6 years is not possible.

[bjgttd]

The Windjammer came at the end of 1876. I should've been more patient.

[Mouse]

I still can't upgrade from 0.5 in the existing game.

The download is working fine for me. Are you running OTTD 1.2? Do you mean the GRF in a current save game won't update? That is down to a lot of important changes in between 0.4-0.6 code. The versions don't like each other on my machine so I have made them incompatible.

[bjgttd]

I've started a new game and got your ships again - 0.62 this time. Several things seem not right:
Reliability decays, but ships don't go to service. The maintenance interval is 360% instead of 50% (don't know if this is the cause).
Have you changed the sound? It was a nice ship's bell before, and now it's something strange.
Have you disabled an auto-refit? It's grayed out.
Tourists are considered a "bulk cargo". The Brig takes 50 units of cargo, or 20 passengers, or 50 tourists. This is a minor one (I haven't got any tourists in 1700).

[Eddi]

Reliability decays, but ships don't go to service. The maintenance interval is 360% instead of 50% (don't know if this is the cause).

this is probably your own screwup, by having the wrong advanced settings. looks like you were converting something from "service interval in days" to "service interval in %"

[bjgttd]

Reliability decays, but ships don't go to service. The maintenance interval is 360% instead of 50% (don't know if this is the cause).

this is probably your own screwup, by having the wrong advanced settings. looks like you were converting something from "service interval in days" to "service interval in %"

Are you saying that OpenTTD doesn't trigger service interval recalculation after the advanced setting change? This would be a bug or a design flaw, a big one anyway.

Is there a way to fix it without starting a new game?

Update: Manually changing maintenance intervals seems to have helped. It's good I've only had 6 ships do deal with yet. This is not the Sailing Ships NewGRF bug anyway. How about the other ones?

[Mouse]

The maintenance interval is 360% instead of 50% (don't know if this is the cause).

That is as Eddi says I think.

Reliability decays, but ships don't go to service.

I think this is caused either by the problem with the percentage service above, or, if you are running without breakdowns, the setting in vehicles menu of advanced settings that disables servicing if breakdowns are set to 'none.'

Have you changed the sound? It was a nice ship's bell before, and now it's something strange.

No change. Has anyone else noticed anything odd?

Have you disabled an auto-refit? It's grayed out.

No but then I haven't enabled it either. If it is something ships can do (FISH does't seem to unless I have an outdated version?) I will see if I can put it in another release.

Tourists are considered a "bulk cargo". The Brig takes 50 units of cargo, or 20 passengers, or 50 tourists. This is a minor one (I haven't got any tourists in 1700).

Well, anyone who flies Easyjet knows that you can get more tourists onto a plane than passengers...
Easy solution to that one. Thank you for finding it.

[bjgttd]

Have you disabled an auto-refit? It's grayed out.

No but then I haven't enabled it either. If it is something ships can do (FISH doesn't seem to unless I have an outdated version?) I will see if I can put it in another release.

The FISH 2 does have it. Most importantly, your Sailing Ships 0.5 did have it - that's why I've asked.

[Mouse]

your Sailing Ships 0.5 did have it

How odd!

[andythenorth]

your Sailing Ships 0.5 did have it

How odd!

One of
- you enabled it by accident
- bjgttd is misremembering
- you used a version of a tool that enabled it unintentionally on compile (unlikely)

If you're enabling autorefit, don't do any complicated allow/disallow refit rules with cb 15E, it makes it trivial for players to create broken vehicle orders (with no warnings). Adjusting cost with cb 15E has no issues.
http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Ca ... _.2815E.29

[Mouse]

I may have unwittingly disabled it by putting restrictions on refittability of certain cc?

The only thing with autorefit is that you could potentially load up with, say, coal, and then at the other end pick up, maybe, goods. This would appear graphically as though you had hammered half the deck back on while loading and then ripped it out again at the other end. I'd probably prefer to only allow autorefit from bulk to bulk, piece to piece etc.

Is it possible to limit autorefittability to a certain cargo class? I think UKRS 2 does this with certain wagons but I'm not sure precisely how that function works, it may just be that the only refittable cargoes were of the same class anyway.

[Supercheese]

Is it possible to limit autorefittability to a certain cargo class? I think UKRS 2 does this with certain wagons but I'm not sure precisely how that function works, it may just be that the only refittable cargoes were of the same class anyway.

I believe so, just make use of the refit_cost callback based on cargo types/classes.

NML: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NM ... _callbacks
NFO: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Ca ... _.2815E.29

[andythenorth]

You can check classes with cb 15E, then allow / disallow refit.

I wouldn't do that, because it very easily causes vehicle orders to be broken, with no warning to player. I think that's quite bad, although not everyone shares my view

[Mouse]

Is it possible to limit autorefittability to a certain cargo class? I think UKRS 2 does this with certain wagons but I'm not sure precisely how that function works, it may just be that the only refittable cargoes were of the same class anyway.

I believe so, just make use of the refit_cost callback based on cargo types/classes.

NML: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NM ... _callbacks
NFO: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Ca ... _.2815E.29

So something like

Code: Select all

Switch(ships, self, switch_cost_refit, cargo_classes){
     bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS) : value  ;
     bitmask(CC_BULK) : value ;
     value ;
}
     

Graphics{
refit_cost  :  switch_cost_refit

A numerical value will reflect the cost of changing the ship on autorefit right?

So potentially another switch could be used to make changing from one class to another more costly?

What would I need to put as a return value if there was to be a disallowed type of cargo for refit?

It might just be simpler to release each type of ship individually?

[andythenorth]

It might just be simpler to release each type of ship individually?

It is. That's why FISH 2 does it that way

[Supercheese]

It might just be simpler to release each type of ship individually?

It is. That's why FISH 2 does it that way

Indeed, the FISH approach seems to work well.

[Mouse]

It might just be simpler to release each type of ship individually?

It is. That's why FISH 2 does it that way

The simplest solution is usually the best!

Edit:
Coming soon (Its half term!)

Ketch (late 1700s), and Atlantic Schooner (early/mid 1800s).

Teaser.png (2.15 KiB) Viewed 8194 times

[De Funes]

Have you changed the sound? It was a nice ship's bell before, and now it's something strange.

No change. Has anyone else noticed anything odd?

Yes, yes, yes,

look (listen) to this. Run Tycoon (1.2.2) -> New GRF Settings -> add only these 2 GRF packages -> "eGRVTS v2.0 - r181" and the second your "Sailing Ships 0.62" without modifications parameters. Apply changes -> New Game, starting in 1900 (because Windjammer) -> New ships -> Windjammer -> buy -> Start ship and what you hear that sound? The sound of trams from eGRVTS v2.0 - r181 pack instead nice ship bell.

For other GRF packages combinations (and eGRVTS is not among them!), in the case that there are many more packages (as it is in the game), launch ship (wind ship) on the water accompanies next (different) sound (as the sound of an electric arc).

Thanks for your great work and sorry for my English

Greetings from Czech Republic