Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

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unessential
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Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

I did a check on here, and couldnt find this already posted, unless i really missed something! But anyway it has been annoying me.
I dont manage to keep up much with recent developments on openttd but i do still play it quite regularly, anyway my problem is this:

About a month or so ago after installing the latest nightly (the one that lets you set messages to display opening/closing industries seperatly to economic changes) i noticed that every farm on the game that wasnt currently serviced was slowly shutting down..... I ignored this and assumed it was simply due to the messages being more noticeable now but then trend is still continuing and i am worried that soon enough there will be no farms left in my game!

Secondly and slighty more concerning is that more recently (when 6.0 appeared on the home page) i installed the nightly and have since had my oil industry collapse. Oil wells that were originally producing 2000 litres of oil are suddenly producing 32 or in some cases have closed down all together, with no newspaper message telling me so. This is not a 1 off as every oil well in my game has had its output fall suddenly from 500 - 2000 to less than 100 or in most cases nothing.

I dont no whether this is happening as part of a new feature which i totally missed or whether it is a bug, i cant find any controls to prevent these effects in the patches panel so i can only assume it is a bug.

My game is very developed (to put it simply) im currently in the year 2692 and i have a network of over 600 trains amongst other things, while i can afford to replace the declining industries i dont have time to search the very large map (2000*2000) for them all.

Could someone let me know if this decline in the oil and agriculture industries is intended or if its a bug? And if anyone has any advice on how to avoid it or minimise the effects of it.... And If you actually read through all of this youve already earned my thanks lol Thank you! :D
Rubidium
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by Rubidium »

0.5.x had a bug where it did not close the industries when it should. This is fixed in 0.6/trunk.
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unessential
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

Sorry if this is a stupid question lol but does that mean itll be fixed in the nightlies now too then? I just installed the latest one, the farms are still dissapearing but im waiting to see what the oil wells do
Thanks :)
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Maedhros
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by Maedhros »

No, what it means is that the way it is in 0.6 and the nightlies is the way it should have been in 0.5.x. ;-)
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unessential
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

so in that case,
should the farms be closing down? Is this an intended feature
and
should the oil wells also be closing down? without producing a newspaper detailing it?

After playing the latest nightly for an hour or so, i think the collapse of the oil industry may be over, none of the wells i replaced have closed down again and some have even returned to their previous levels of 1000+ output :mrgreen:
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by DaleStan »

unessential wrote:so in that case,
should the farms be closing down? Is this an intended feature
should the oil wells also be closing down? without producing a newspaper detailing it?
"Yes", "yes", "no", and "please find your shift key", respectively.

If the third is actually happening, produce a safegame from just over a month before the industry disappears.
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unessential
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

LoL! Im usually good with capital letters!
Anyway ill keep watching it, it does seem as if the vanishing oil wells has stopped for now at least. If it hasnt though and i discover its still happening, ill do my best to try and come up with a save game of it!

Thanks guys, much appreciated :wink:
SoLo
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by SoLo »

I'vr had a similar problem with my oil wells. Started servicing them in the early 1930s and they were all around 200 barrels or so. But right after I started sending trains to them the output just died. Out of 5 that started around 200. 1 shutdown, 1 is at 64, and the other 3 are at 32. I had all messages on and they weren't dropping rapidly when they weren't being serviced, just the normal up and down every few months.
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by Zhall »

Yeah, Oil always seems to die out on me too. Especially noticable on smaller maps.
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unessential
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

I have actually always had a problem with most or all second level industries (factories etc) closing down in the first 100 years of a game, this happens gradually however and with newspaper announcements. It also only happens at places recieving no goods which makes sense.

The problem with the oil wells is that they were being serviced but still just shut down and dissapeared off the map, without displaying a newspaper to tell me so.

Having played with the latest nightly for a couple of hours now, it does look as if this 'bug' has been resolved. The oil wells i replaced a couple of days ago have not closed down again and their output has returned to the levels it was before i noticed this problem.
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by LordAzamath »

The oil wells will all close down in some time..Your new ones too..It's a feature not a bug. The oil just get's used from it's reservuars underground. And that makes the appereance of Oil rigs especially valuable...Your infrastructure supporting Oil Refinery will get used again..

Lord
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

Thats an interesting thought i hadnt considered, might explain it. Although it still seems a bit sudden for all the oil wells on the map to suddenly dissapear in the space of 10 years after being there for 700.

Interestingly also, the oil rigs were not affected, none of my oil rigs closed down or suffered the same massive drop in production as the oil wells.
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by Zhall »

lordazamath wrote:The oil wells will all close down in some time..Your new ones too..It's a feature not a bug. The oil just get's used from it's reservuars underground. And that makes the appereance of Oil rigs especially valuable...Your infrastructure supporting Oil Refinery will get used again..

Lord
Okay so by saying this im an under the impression that you beleive this.

Oil rigs pull oil out of water
Farms Rotate their crops
2000 tons of coal or iron ore can be hauled away for thousands of years every month
Forests rotate their crops
Copper Ore never runs out
Banks never run out of money
Fruit and maize farms rotate their crops
Gold mines never run out of gold, wait that means banks never run out of money.

I think ive made my point clear.
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by LordAzamath »

..and I also believe, that a train can fit into one tile depot...In real life too :D
Actually, I have read a conversation about it somewhere..(in these forums)..and it was reasoned that way :)
PS: And I stopped the propaganda to support Dave Worley since he got a nice new red hat now.[/color]
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nezzybaby
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by nezzybaby »

er.... most farms do rotate their crops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_rotation
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by Qu@rks »

I just experienced the exact same thing in a multiplayer game and I must say it's really annoying. I used to have about ten oil wells connected to my refinery. They all started out between 50 and 150 tons a month. But within ten years (ten years counting from the start of the game, when I connected the wells) ALL OF THEM were deleted. What's wrong with that? There are now about ten left on the map and one shuts down about every half a year. If this is supposed to be realistic then why are we still all driving?

It sure is realistic that SOME of them get closed down but not as many as in most of the games I played recently... I would greatly appreciate it if this could be "fixed".
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unessential
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by unessential »

I had thought maybe this was part of a more realistic economics patch that id just missed out on? If it is it would be nice to have a way to turn it off or something!
The issue still exists on my map and it seems to be affecting (to a smaller extent) coal and other primary industries too, at the moment if i find a deleted industry i can afford to replace it myself by funding a new one however as this closes down again within 10 years it means that almost none of my once lucrative supply routes (primary - secondary industry) are profitable anymore, at this rate i wont be able to afford to keep replacing the industries, either that or im going to have to cut my number of freight trains in half :cry:
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by one billion daleks »

unessential wrote: at this rate i wont be able to afford to keep replacing the industries :cry:
Here's a dirty fix ... :)

Switch to Player 2.
Allocate $20 million, plant some new oil wells
Switch back to Player 1.

EDIT: You may need to bankrupt Player 2 after doing this, to stop him messing with your map! I find the quickest way to do this is choose any area of open water, and raise land to maximum height, then lower it to sealevel again with the landscape '=' function - that spends cash real quick!
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by froggo... »

I would like to see it become a switch off-able feature. Since having this happen I haven't transported a single litre of oil from oil wells on my games. As I see it: why put in all the time and hard work to develop a network around an oil well that is going to lower in production to nil. I could spend the time and effort on coal or wood etc.

Other thing I don't like about it is, as sapphire said, why only oil? Coal/Copper Ore/Iron Ore/Lumber (in an intensive production method)/Gold/Diamonds, all of these are limited if not as, then more so than oil.
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Re: Economic Collapse of Agriculture and Oil

Post by belugas »

May I mention that newindustries are now in trunk and on o.6 betas?
Means that if you want to tailor how the industries are behaving, you can do it yourself without having to compile the program yourselves.
A simple nfo that changes behaviours/productions of this of that industry and here you go.
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... Industries
It's simpler than it looks like.
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