Electric 3rd rail

Kyaputen Harokku · Post by **Kyaputen Harokku** » 11 Oct 2004 10:12

Do/did they REALLY exist? I think they might be quite dangerous, if you run over the track and hit the rail...

I am from Germany and here we only had overhead electric wires all the time, I saw the electric 3rd rails the first time in Locomotion in the "British" scenarios.

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 11 Oct 2004 10:20

Of course, because they're cheaper than overhead wires IRL

yorkie · Post by **yorkie** » 11 Oct 2004 11:25

Kyaputen Harokku wrote:Do/did they REALLY exist? I think they might be quite dangerous, if you run over the track and hit the rail...

.... then you are a trespasser and a complete idiot

And yes, some people have lost their lives by doing such stupid acts (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/3560354.stm , http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sout ... 652200.stm for 2 recent cases)

Most of the SouthEast of England is electrified with the 3rd rail system.

This is East Croydon (photo taken by me a few months ago): http://yorkie.fotopic.net/p6155908.html

Sadly the good old slam door trains (similar to the EPB) are all being withdrawn now

Catch them while you still can.

metalangel · Post by **metalangel** » 11 Oct 2004 11:30

Yes, they exist - in the UK they're exposed, but in North America where I've seen them on transit systems in Toronto and New York, they've got a wooden cover with a gap between it and the rail for the collection shoe to slide through.

They were installed in the Southeastern UK for reasons I don't understand, catenary and means to collect it were available (it was even proposed for the underground to use overhead supply).

Thameslink trains (which use both methods of collection as they cross between north and south) warn you that in case of evacuation, do not step on ANY rail.

Personally, I don't like them one bit.

Thinlizzy · Post by **Thinlizzy** » 11 Oct 2004 12:12

Germany used to have 3rd systems. Instead of the pick up shoe resting onto of the rail, it ran upside down along the bottom of the rail though.

3rd rail is perfectly safe, and untrained people shouldnt come into contact with it unless they are doing something they should be, like trespassing
Its more realiable than overhead electrification due to the fact that a strong gust of wind doesnt have the same affect as it would on a power line.

Prof. Frink · Post by **Prof. Frink** » 11 Oct 2004 12:22

Not to mention it ruins the view far less than overheads do.

Daan Timmer · Post by **Daan Timmer** » 11 Oct 2004 12:31

here in holland (atleast here in amsetdam and rotterdam) our entire subway-ssytem is built with the 3rd rail systemm

tehre are a few metros in amsterdam that can run as wel on 3rd as on overhead wires.. (to go from the subway-network to the trams network)

103er-Fan · Post by **103er-Fan** » 11 Oct 2004 13:35

Kyaputen Harokku wrote:Do/did they REALLY exist? I think they might be quite dangerous, if you run over the track and hit the rail...

I am from Germany and here we only had overhead electric wires all the time, I saw the electric 3rd rails the first time in Locomotion in the "British" scenarios.

You must not run over railroad tracks, didn't your mother tought you that? I am a train driver (or is it engineer?) in germany and believe: It is not funny to speed upon a person who is just running over the track.

Also germany still has 3rd electric rail system. Just look at the S-Bahn Hamburg or Berlin, they are using them.

Wezz6400 · Post by **Wezz6400** » 11 Oct 2004 14:33

One downside of the 3d rail is that it can be pretty nasty around areas with lots of switches etc. Overhead wires are easier there. For the rest, a 3d rail is not unsafe by definition. However I consider a overhead wire safer than a third rail because it's harder to touch a overhead wire.
In The Netherlands trains have never run on 3d rail, however, as DaaNtje said, metros do (safety is no issue underground).

edk256 · Post by **edk256** » 11 Oct 2004 16:27

Here is a new-ish R143 train in the NYC subway on the L line.

metalangel · Post by **metalangel** » 11 Oct 2004 16:32

Wezz6400 wrote:However I consider a overhead wire safer than a third rail because it's harder to touch a overhead wire.

*lowers something on a string from a bridge to touch the wire*

People will always find a way to do something silly.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 11 Oct 2004 16:43

You Germans have just built us a lot of third rail trains. To work near my station and they do exsist (see picture).

Thinlizzy · Post by **Thinlizzy** » 11 Oct 2004 17:12

Ah i recognise that station.
The Germans have just flogged us aload of faultly desiros and run off laughing

edk256 · Post by **edk256** » 11 Oct 2004 17:22

Sprry, I screwed up my previous post.

A NYC subway train

An NYC-area commuter train navigating a series of switches.

Neither pic is mine.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 11 Oct 2004 17:44

One problem with third rails is that it's so close to the ground, so you need to run pretty low voltages, which means high current. So you need to put transformers and boosters in relatively small intervals.

md_mse · Post by **md_mse** » 11 Oct 2004 20:26

Lol, of course we have 3rd rail tracks.... A lot of them

Every Subway (U-Bahn) and most inner-city trains (S-Bahn) have such tracks!

@Kyaputen Harokku: Where do you live?

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 11 Oct 2004 23:23

Kyaputen Harokku wrote:Do/did they REALLY exist? I think they might be quite dangerous, if you run over the track and hit the rail...

Yes they do exist. In England many trains use the 3d rail.

I am from Germany and here we only had overhead electric wires all the time, I saw the electric 3rd rails the first time in Locomotion in the "British" scenarios.

No you don't. The Hamburg S-Bahn runs on a 3d rail:

On this image, which is too big to post using the IMG tags, you can clearly see a 3d rail to the right of the track, in this case used to power the S-Bahn in Berlin:

http://malarstig.de/images/S-Bahn.jpg

Note that on the above picture the S-Bahn is right next to DB tracks that do have overhead electrical wires.

Here is another good picture from Munchen's U-Bahn. It clearly shows no overhead wires and a 3 rail on the concrete on the oposite site of the track.

http://eloise.cementhorizon.com/albums/ ... _36_28.jpg

fsdave · Post by **fsdave** » 11 Oct 2004 23:56

How many times are you all gonna tell the guy the same thing?

tokama · Post by **tokama** » 12 Oct 2004 00:09

Will the electric engine lost its power on the level crossing with 3rd rail ?

Mystic · Post by **Mystic** » 12 Oct 2004 00:22

In answer to your question, most subway systems and other trains that use a 3rd rail have a backup battery source. In Montreal when the 3rd rail is not available, or if the power is cut, then 3/4 of the lights turn out and the train will still proceed into the next station, and shut down afterwards. Now, for the distance of a few feet, shorter than the distance between the front of the car and the back of the car, then it will have no effect, since the current will still pass through at the end of the car and in the other cars.

Here's an image of how the 3rd rail in Montreal works.

As well, here's a photo of the tracks in action.

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictur ... cgill1.jpg

(Kind of large, so if you want to check it out, you can click on the link.)

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