World's longest guided busway opens in Cambridge, UK

[Level Crossing]

Not really - widening cuttings and embankments can bring a whole host of expensive problems. You can't just place tarmac straight on earth, and you would probably end up in a horrible mess with land purchases.

Seriously... it's all on PAGE 2 of the thread.

[JamieLei]

Dunno what buses are limited to. HGVs are limited to 56, but I've been on old local buses that have been at a hell of a pace up the M42!

Tbh, they'd probably never reach 60 anyway. The bus stops are too close together for anything more than 55mph if they have to stop every mile anyway (but would do the journey quicker than a train could do it due to much faster acceleration). Furthermore the frequencies are looking rather attractive on the route, and if it was a train the best we could expect would be an hourly service on a piece of single track.

[orudge]

I thought buses, etc, were limited to 100km/h (62mph), rather than lorries which are limited to 90km/h (56mph). (Indeed, that seems to be the case - reference here).

Of course, the silly thing is that HGVs actually have a speed limit of 60mph on motorways, and buses have a limit of 70mph, according to UK law, yet due to silly old EU law, we don't actually have any (recent) vehicles that can achieve those speeds! (Hence why you sometimes see older lorries or buses zooming along much faster than all the rest...) You'd think the EU could at least have made HGVs 100km/h, and buses 110km/h, to take into account existing laws in member states.

And for what it's worth, neither the US nor Australia limit HGV speeds, in my experience, and the motorways seem much nicer with everybody driving along at 70mph-ish, lorries included, rather than having a huge stream of lorries nose-to-tail in lane 1!

[John]

Edit: Pedant alert, the buses travel at 55mph, not 60mph - presumably due to the fact they have to be limited to 56mph to travel on UK roads?

Yes I know - I went with 60mph first, then couldn't be bothered to correct myself.

Also bear in mind there is a bridle path next to the bus route - not sure I fancy cycling/walking/riding a horse with buses zipping past at 55mph a metre away.

[Pilot]

Lorries limited to 56 mph
Buses limited to 56 mph
Coaches limited to 62 mph
Just to clear things up.

[JamieLei]

I heard it's because 56mph is the most fuel efficient speed. So regardless of Member State's speed limits, it's all about environmental reasons.

[orudge]

That's not quite true. Environmental reasons were not the consideration for the introduction of speed limiters, safety was. Indeed, the first trucks with limiters were actually incredibly inefficient, because their engines were tuned for a wider range of speeds, 60mph being the cruising speed of HGVs until then, with lorries certainly capable of doing faster than that. In more recent years, trucks have been tuned more so that 56mph is as efficient as possible, because, of course, that's what the limiter is set to. If you happen to be a member of SABRE, Kenny1975 in particular has written much on the subject, being a professional lorry driver who was driving at the time of the introduction of the limiters.

Incidentally, a number of companies keep older <7.5T trucks around, because they have no limiter and a legal speed limit of 70mph on the motorway. Newer trucks with limiters are 14mph slower, which can make a huge difference when you're working on restricted driving hours and need to get from one end of the country to the other before your hours run out! Apparently the introduction of limiters on these trucks was a particular problem for the Royal Mail and other express logistics companies.

[Kevo00]

Incidentally, a number of companies keep older <7.5T trucks around, because they have no limiter and a legal speed limit of 70mph on the motorway. Newer trucks with limiters are 14mph slower, which can make a huge difference when you're working on restricted driving hours and need to get from one end of the country to the other before your hours run out! Apparently the introduction of limiters on these trucks was a particular problem for the Royal Mail and other express logistics companies.

Well that explains why those little trucks drive so fast! I could never work that out.

What annoys me most is when you have one 40 ton truck driving at 55 and another going at 56 decides to overtake it....the height of pointlessness, but it blocks up our motorways something ridiculous.

[orudge]

Yes, that can be annoying, although the truck drivers in question would no doubt argue that over the course of a journey, that could equate to a number of miles that they need to squeeze into their hours, again. As I say, though, if they'd made the limiters, say, 100km/h, or even slightly higher, but kept the legal speed limit at 60mph, then you'd have more variance in the trucks, and wouldn't have this phenomenon so much. VOSA would come down hard on any driver speeding for their entire journey, but speeding up from 60mph to 63mph to overtake another lorry would generally be overlooked, and would make the motorway flow much better. But ah well, doesn't look like things are going to change any time soon.

[61653]

Yes, that can be annoying, although the truck drivers in question would no doubt argue that over the course of a journey, that could equate to a number of miles that they need to squeeze into their hours, again. As I say, though, if they'd made the limiters, say, 100km/h, or even slightly higher, but kept the legal speed limit at 60mph, then you'd have more variance in the trucks, and wouldn't have this phenomenon so much. VOSA would come down hard on any driver speeding for their entire journey, but speeding up from 60mph to 63mph to overtake another lorry would generally be overlooked, and would make the motorway flow much better. But ah well, doesn't look like things are going to change any time soon.

That would involve some common sense on the part of regulators/officials, and sense seems to be rather uncommon in those parts...

[audigex]

Yes, that can be annoying, although the truck drivers in question would no doubt argue that over the course of a journey, that could equate to a number of miles that they need to squeeze into their hours, again. As I say, though, if they'd made the limiters, say, 100km/h, or even slightly higher, but kept the legal speed limit at 60mph, then you'd have more variance in the trucks, and wouldn't have this phenomenon so much. VOSA would come down hard on any driver speeding for their entire journey, but speeding up from 60mph to 63mph to overtake another lorry would generally be overlooked, and would make the motorway flow much better. But ah well, doesn't look like things are going to change any time soon.

On the motorway I can survive it, because there's a third lane for me to pass both... they shouldn't be allowed to do it on an upward grade though (when both slow down!) or on a dual carriageway unless the speed difference is large enough. I once followed two lorries for 5 miles up a gradual grade at about 45-50, slightly frustrating when I was cruising at 70 (honest, guv) beforehand.

My absolute favourite was a lorry overtaking another on a single carriageway road: I had a good look the next time I went past, in case I'd misjudged it, and there was no way in hell I'd want to overtake anything there in my car: which is a damn sight faster than a lorry.

[orudge]

Yeah, it can be especially annoying on two-lane dual carriageways. I don't think I've ever seen a lorry overtaking another one on a single carriageway, though! Have seen them overtaking tractors and caravans, though! (Of course, the speed limit for lorries on single carriageways is 40mph, but not everyone sticks to that, which as a car driver I appreciate as it can be extremely frustrating to be stuck behind a queue of traffic behind a lorry. What's worse is when you're stick behind a queue of traffic behind a lorry behind a Micra, though!)

[John]

The police (avon & somerset) here have an unmarked truck cab which they drive along the motorway while filming other trucks. Anyone breaking the law (cooking while driving, mobile use, lack of seat belts etc. etc.) gets pulled over by a marked car. They also pull over trucks that move out to overtake but don't, or take ages to do so (5 miles+ wasn't that rare).

[orudge]

I seem to recall seeing something of the sort on "Motorway Cops" not so long ago - police using an unmarked cab to check on other lorry drivers and pull them over if need be. Quite alarmingly, this lorry driver was drunk and on the phone, as I recall.

[Ameecher]

I seem to recall seeing something of the sort on "Motorway Cops" not so long ago - police using an unmarked cab to check on other lorry drivers and pull them over if need be. Quite alarmingly, this lorry driver was drunk and on the phone, as I recall.

Yeah I saw that. Tanked up with special brew.

As for those who are grateful to lorries that don't obey the 40 limit, I'd never travel along the A17 east from Newark then. So many speed cameras and mobile patrols that you WILL find lorries doing 40. Pain in the arse.

[Kevo00]

What's worse is when you're stick behind a queue of traffic behind a lorry behind a Micra, though!)

Oi! I drive a Micra! There is nothing wrong with a Micra. I drive at 70-77mph on motorways and dual carriageways, and 60mph on single carriageways thank you very much! I may drive at 30mph in built up areas, and respect other limits, but that is because I don't want to pay a fine and get points on my license, thank you.

It is however annoying when you get the 'flash lights in outside lane' brigade coming up behind you because they want to drive at 90 or 100, even though that clearly violates the highway code in terms of being able to stop within your field of vision if an accident happens on front of you. Also, many people clearly see the Micra and think it will be an old woman or something, and thus easy to intimidate.

I'm glad to hear that police in Avon and Somerset at least, are taking action against badly driven trucks. I'm convinced some of them just drive parallel to have a chat. Its a big problem anywhere on the A1 I tend to find (except the few 3 lane bits) and particularly on the section north of the M18 near Doncaster, where there are a lot of hills and trucks tend to take ages to overtake. Plus idots behind you that don't indicate to overtake but pull out anyway, despite the fact that you were clearly indicating...

[JamieLei]

Generally I tend to drive around the 70 mark on motorways, just because it's already pretty fast compared to other countries (America at 60(?), and Japan at who knows what but it's painfully slow - 55mph maybe). Plus if I drive above 70 it's horrendously fuel inefficient.

I have the same problem as Kev in that I drive a Vauxhall Zafira (through no choice of my own) - yeah I know - a year ago I was an 18 year old driving a Zafira... the irony. On more than one occasion I've been treated like a middle-aged woman.

[audigex]

Parts of America are up to 75/80mph, which can be nice... until you realise it's about a million miles to the shop.

I don't mind people being slower than me in front of me, as long as they're doing a reasonable speed and if they're in the fast lane, take an opportunity to move in. Many people will happily let someone pull out in front of them with a cheery flash of the headlights, but won't give the same courtesy to someone travelling faster behind them. I tend to flash my lights only if they could move to a "slower" lane and are just being a numbskull. Otherwise you end up with one person in the "fast" lane slowly overtaking 5 other people in the middle lane, while a queue of cars behind the overtaker can't make any progress: the overtaker could move in between the cars it's overtaking, but choses not to, and instead of flashing him/her or getting out of the way so that someone else can flash them they just sit behind them in the queue so everyone gets irate.

If someone in front of me is going slowly and can't get out of the way, I've nothing against them: it just does my tits in when they could but don't, either out of stupidity or lack of courtesy.

And don't even get me started on middle lane hogs.

[orudge]

Oi! I drive a Micra! There is nothing wrong with a Micra. I drive at 70-77mph on motorways and dual carriageways, and 60mph on single carriageways thank you very much! I may drive at 30mph in built up areas, and respect other limits, but that is because I don't want to pay a fine and get points on my license, thank you.

Oh, I'm not saying you should be speeding in 30mph zones or anything like that. But you do get a lot of doddery old fools who'll typically (but, admittedly, not always) be in a Micra, driving 40mph in a 60mph, and then staying at 40mph in a 30mph zone as you pass through a village.

And yes, plonkers doing 100mph can be just as bad as people going too slowly!

Parts of America are up to 75/80mph, which can be nice... until you realise it's about a million miles to the shop.

Heh. I think most eastern US states have speed limits of 55-65mph, but most midwestern or western states are at least 70mph, Texas being up to 80mph in places.

I don't mind people being slower than me in front of me, as long as they're doing a reasonable speed and if they're in the fast lane, take an opportunity to move in. Many people will happily let someone pull out in front of them with a cheery flash of the headlights, but won't give the same courtesy to someone travelling faster behind them.

I find this to be particularly annoying when you're going on a two-lane dual carriageway or motorway and there's an idiot in lane 2 with nothing next to him in lane 1. On more than one occasion, I've just resigned myself to overtaking on the left, because these people apparently never look in their mirrors to see there's a queue of traffic behind them trying to overtake. I've always been tempted by a sharp blast of the horn on such occasions, but if they're that unaware of their surroundings, they'd probably crash into me or something if I did so!

[Ameecher]

I've just resigned myself to overtaking on the left

Otherwise known as undertaking.