ToyLand Graphics Conversion

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 22:14

I understand half of your point, but not the other half.

The point about the candyfloss forest being, well, a forest, and thus logical to map to something vast and repetitive, is sensible. I don't think that necessarily means agriculture though. For instance, the roof of the plastics components factory could be vast and repetitive, the real ones certainly are in CA.

I'm not sure I understand your point about not being able to take too much end product to cities. Does TTD have an internal economy like Railroad Tycoon 2? I hadn't noticed it to work that way. Actually, I think there was a message here about wanting a patch to make an internal economy.

Last, your preference for relatively more agriculture and relatively less industry I don't understand. East Asia has relatively more industry, at least the parts of it we seem to want to model. Is there something about the way the vectors work that I don't understand?

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 13 Feb 2003 22:20

With your purpsoed system:

You will be selling 10.000 cars to a city of 60 inhabitants since cars (sweets) are Food of toyland. You will be actually needing cars to be sold to a town to make the town grow...

You will require towns to be above certain population to accept food.

This pretty much binds first production vector to food. Other two are exchangeable, but it is far more sensible to sell goods to cities rather than cars. You decide...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 22:38

OH. OK, I finally got it. Yes, you are right, the first (three-way) vector has to be food of some sort.

I still really want the cars because the car-carriers Michael made are so very cool. But you are right, I have to switch them to a different vector.

I will redo the chart and repost it.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 22:50

Here is a new chart.

I have one question though. In Toyland, is there an industry that works like the Farms - that is, buildings in the center, and fields around that look different and change with time, but that you can build through if need be? That would want to be the Rice Paddies, no matter what.

Does anybody know what a soybean farm looks like? I mapped that to the Candyfloss Farm, because I figured a large, repetitive area would be OK for that sort of farm, but I could be wrong.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 22:53

Thanks to Daid, I have now posted the revised Table of All the Sprites.

http://www.as-st.com/ttd

I intend to leave this here and update it as we go along, since I have plenty of room on my server for it.

I can add more pages if we think it's worthwhile.

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 22:53

Ok, before everybody gets nuts becouse of the Toyland GFX, i've create a GFX set with normal grass+roads+track, now everybody has a chance to look at the Toyland industries without dying.

It's only for the windows version, and i didn't change the bridges. Or any vehicles, or buildings (exept for the Road depot, because it was hurting me to see it with a Head on top of it

)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 23:54

I've posted Daid's Toyland Tylenol patch to my TTD East Asia Project website, also the vectors graphic. We can put other resources there as well. Nothing wrong with putting them here too, of course.

http://www.as-st.com/ttd

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 14 Feb 2003 00:05

OK - why do you keep to the ridiculus mini steel mill and gigantic plastic industry? It seems, that making it just opposite will yeld better results...

What kind of ORE does electronics plant require? And it is not a beach! It is a SAND MINE!

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Feb 2003 00:10

>>OK - why do you keep to the ridiculus mini steel mill and gigantic plastic industry? It seems, that making it just opposite will yeld better results...

Because, even though the battery farm is large, it looks like it is all one graphic (just, a whole bunch of that same graphic). This will work better for the plastic factory (a big generic looking repetitive cement factory with a flat roof) than for the steel mill which requires at least a couple of different parts.

If I've misunderstood how the battery farm and plastics wells work I'm willing to change. I haven't installed Daid's headache remedy yet and actually looked at them, I've been busy.

>>What kind of ORE does electronics plant require?

Well, let's see.
Copper
Rare Earths (some of which are very cool colors like cobalt blue)
Gold (small amounts though)
Silver
Platinum

My thought is to leave the Ore type indeterminate, allowing for a rainbow of colors in the hopper cars. This is not totally unrealistic as different kinds of rare earths are often found in close proximity to each other.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Feb 2003 00:22

>>And it is not a beach! It is a SAND MINE!

Technically, you are correct. I just thought maybe a beach would be more fun. We can have little teeny Baywatch lifeguards on their chairs or sunning on towels, while the sand is being carted away...

OK, OK, it's just a reaction against the completely bland "Gravel Pit" from Railroad Tycoon 2.

A sand pit, with bulldozers and maybe one of those angled loading things would be cool.

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 14 Feb 2003 00:30

krtaylor wrote:Because, even though the battery farm is large, it looks like it is all one graphic (just, a whole bunch of that same graphic). This will work better for the plastic factory (a big generic looking repetitive cement factory with a flat roof) than for the steel mill which requires at least a couple of different parts.

That Is why I came up with the idea of the scrap yard. It is repetitive and it is simple to make (relatively). And also scrap yard can be treated as a primary source, unlike steel mill which requires iron ore. Your mini-steel (no matter how ridiculus the idea is) will create steel from void.

Well, let's see.
Copper
Rare Earths (some of which are very cool colors like cobalt blue)
Gold (small amounts though)
Silver
Platinum

My thought is to leave the Ore type indeterminate, allowing for a rainbow of colors in the hopper cars. This is not totally unrealistic as different kinds of rare earths are often found in close proximity to each other.

Well, rare earths are processed in a seperate facilites. Copper and aliminum are also. Silver is not used in electronics (unless for connecting electronics parts, but that are small amounts). Gold is used in minuscule amounts and one or two wagonloads of gold ore per year will pretty make up for it. Platinum is too expensive.
Also - ttd graphics engine is really limiting and making a rainbow on hopper cars is almost impossible to do (or it is possible, but will look way ugly). I think you have to make a choice what kind of ore is processed. Also - sand is used in really small amounts for electronics...
While I like the hi-tech vector it is really unrealistic...

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 14 Feb 2003 00:32

krtaylor wrote: A sand pit, with bulldozers and maybe one of those angled loading things would be cool.

Impossible... youa re replacing cola wells. And those are composed of 5 repetitions of a single sprite...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Feb 2003 00:57

Sand is used in small quantities in modern electronics, that is true. However, we are not talking about chip fabs here (particularly when you consider that we start in 1930). If you consider all the electrical things, such as light bulbs, CRTs, coated glass, etc., sand is actually a major contributor. And it's valid both for the past, the present, and presumably the future. That's why I picked it.

Maybe we can't do an elaborate sand pit, but we can at least have blowing dunes, maybe a bulldozer going around.

The scrapyard is an excellent idea, and I suggested it as one of the elements of the mini-mill. A mini-mill doesn't use ore, it takes scrap, melts it down, and generates fresh steel. Perhaps you have heard of Nucor, that's what they do. If we have the little steel-furnace Daid did, with an associated scrap pile, then it makes sense. As it happens, the Japanese historically have imported scrap steel from the Western world to melt down and recycle into things.

Concerning the ore, I didn't mean that we would have an actual rainbow in any one car - that's ridiculous, although it would look right at home in Toyland, wouldn't it

What I meant was, using the "random cargo" feature, separate gondola cars could be full of slightly different-colored things. If we absolutely must pick one then I think copper makes the most sense.

Let's not forget, we are not able to recreate an entire economy here, just a representative sample. I think an East Asia environment with some sort of halfway-sensible tech/industrial vector, even if it's a little forced, makes much more sense than an East Asia environment without one at all.

Any other thoughts on this subject?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Feb 2003 02:06

I just played Toyland for a bit using Daid's patch.

It seems to me that the industries of Toyland are both very different, and also much simpler, than the normal ones. Some of them have no animation at all, the others have much less. Most of them are smaller in size also.

The worst thing of all is, there is NO farm like the temperate zone has. I really wanted that for rice paddies.

I'm assuming there is no way to get TTD to use the algorithms of industries from another environment?

I do recall reading that many of the new trains use the Toyland graphics slots. Does this mean it is possible to switch things around? For instance, would it be possible to use the Toyland graphic slots for new graphics, but use, say, the Temperate industrial algorithms and vectors?

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 14 Feb 2003 06:34

Well, we could replace the Temperate GFX, but that wasn't the point of this project, we wanted to change Toyland into something usefull.

G-Klav · Post by **G-Klav** » 14 Feb 2003 09:10

To Adam K.: Quit whining, and do something about it instead!!

Edit:

G-Klav · Post by **G-Klav** » 14 Feb 2003 09:22

I've thought of something useful: We can use the 'forest' as some kind of farm, by letting one sqauare contain a small building, and the rest as the 'paddys' or whatever.
I think that it's best suited for some kind of animal farm, though.

But that toffe thingy adds a lot of problems.
It could be some kind of hunter, or... nah, bad idea...

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 14 Feb 2003 09:31

G-Klav wrote:To Adam K.: Quit whining, and do something about it instead!!

Hey, hey, calm down

G-Klav · Post by **G-Klav** » 14 Feb 2003 09:38

It seems as I have forgotten a smilie:

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 14 Feb 2003 10:02

my god ... what a chat

... good good ...

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