Chill's patchpack v14_7

[ChillCore]

I am still not comfortable with HG and patch queueing simply because I have not taken the time to read up and experiment with it.
I have not forgotten about that offer and I do appreciate it but somehow there is something that I do not like about working with HG or GIT ... can't put my finger on what exactly ... no longer having a clear overview of all changes at once and pulling patches from them are two of them ...

You could just make a (hg) repository with the patch and a little metadata; then #openttdcoop's server can automagically create a repository with that patch applied which can then be compiled by OpenTTD. An example of this are the 32bpp ez patches; see http://hg.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patc ... ce79e2c631 for the files that they distribute.

For your case one patch and the series files would probably be enough.

Note that I'm not that familiar with what is going on internally, but I reckon it would be relatively easy to get this started. After all, you're releasing patches already and putting those into a hg repository isn't the hardest thing in the world.

Patching and commiting to a hg repository is not a problem. It is when I pull a patch from it, for comparing with the older version, that I get lots of small patches while I want a 1 file patch with all my changes in it from the beginning.
I could perhaps just keep developping my svn source and then apply the new patch to it ... I have not tried to do it that way.

Also MQ gave me some problems before that I did not yet have the time and the patience to get deeper into. Just updating to trunk has kept me quite busy lately.

I will check again if I can get things set up for it. I had some problems finding and installing things before on Ubuntu that might be solved now as I upgraded since then and newer versions are available in the repository.

what does "transported goods ratio" mean? i am transporting 3241 passengers (needed 536), 0 mail (89 needed) and 0 goods (178 needed)... how does that add up to 25%? o_O

Transported goods ratio is the total amount of all needed goods you have transported in this town.
It does not matter if you transport needed + 1 or needed + 2000 max is 100% for each requirement.

Number of stations in the town is also taken into account. (5 or more is 100%, less is 20% per station).

Taking your example above calculation is as follows:

- We start at 100% (default).
- Then number of stations is evaluated, I assume you have 5 so 100%, these two numbers are added together and then devided by 2, so still 100%.
- Then the same for passengers 100% , still 100%.
- Then mail 0%, so we drop to 50%.
- Then goods 0% and we have 25%.


It does not matter if you transport needed + 1 or needed +2000 max is 100%

I could perhaps change the above method to adding all together and afterwards deviding by the number of requirements, instead of adding percentages and deviding by two each time but I did not want to complicate the code at the time of writing ... Note that in the other climates there are more requirements and the number is different depending on where the town is located in Arctic and Tropical climates.
-> Food in deserts and above the snowline, water in deserts, toyland will want sweets instead of goods and fizzy drinks instead of food. (The gui will tell you ...)


While it is easy to keep up with passengers and mail. Keeping up with the other cargos is not. Especially if you want to keep multiple towns happy at the same time.
I tried a few testgames while developing and tuning that patch and I needed lots of recources just to make three towns grow somewhat at a higher rate -> demand goes up as population grows, it is based on it, and if you do not extend your supply accordingly the transported ratio and the town growth rate will go downs. Read: It is a never ending challenge.

Are you sure that you want the required cargo to be adjusted to daylength?
I can do it easily but please test a bit longer first to see if you can keep up with the code as is ...
Attached screenshot is taken from my longlasting game where I had not yet enabled the towngrowth patch. I enabled it now to show you the difference in requested numbers between small and large towns.

¿Maybe I could/should add the daylenght factor for passengers and mail only?

[AppeL]

well, if the daylength factor is 30 then i also have 30 times the amount of cargo delievered, so the demand should also rise by the factor 30 to balance it out again. otherwise it will mean that the higher the daylength factor, the easier it is to meet the demand. and seemingly it is very easy to meet the demand at daylength 30, as i have 6 times the demand and the difficulty option is on hard.

yes, the demand will rise with town population, but the cargo delievered will also rise as other towns are getting larger and therefore more passengers and mail travel. this one, however, is tricky for goods, because at one point you just won't have enough factories anymore to meet all the goods demands and you will have to fund your own factories etc. maybe the required amount of goods needs to be smaller.

also to be noted is, that (i assume) even if you are not meeting the full demands your town still grows, just not at full speed. that means smaller towns will grow faster (as the demand is met) and larger towns grow slower.

the transported goods ratio does not make any sense imo. you should calculate the percentage for each demand separately, then take the mean percentage.

it should be like this (example):

pass:
delievered 100; needed 200 (=> 50%)

mail
delievered 20; needed 60 (=> 33%)

goods 0; needed 10 (=> 0%)

=> (50+33+0)/3 =>

22% transported goods ratio.

this means for my example from the post before, if you meet the full passenger demand but have 0 for the other demands, that your transported goods ratio is 33% (because you fully satisy one third of the demands).. this way all three demands (pass, mail, goods) are weighted equally. that means if you just meet one demand (doesn't matter which) then it will be 33%.

--------------------------------------------
lastly, the cargo class "food" for the temperate climate from the FIRS NewGRF set seems not to be classed under "goods". this is unfortunate, because it is much easier to get produce food, than it is to produce goods with the FIRS set.

[romazoon]

Hi

I have a question about cargodist, i think what i m looking for is inside the advanced setting "linkgraph".

I explain the case : I would like to keep the asymetric distribution for express cargo (wich in my case is food, goods, and fish). Also i d like to send an equal"ish" amount of food and goods to all my cities and just a few selected one to become big i would like to send more.

My problem is that it seems to send more cargo to the more far destination and keep the other "dry" even if capacity is not at all meeted for the long destination... I realize i could just put manual on all cargos... but i still like to make hub to distribute then the foods and goods by trucks, i could also use transfer order for that... but well i m looking to use the cargodist features to avoid that !

So what should i change in the "linkgraph" settings to have the expected behaviour? the effect of distance i would guess... but wich way ? 100% or 0%???

Thanks for the future answer ! also i haven t said it yet so : Thanks for the work you putted in the latest release ! it s awesome !

[ChillCore]

well, if the daylength factor is 30 then i also have 30 times the amount of cargo delievered, so the demand should also rise by the factor 30 to balance it out again. otherwise it will mean that the higher the daylength factor, the easier it is to meet the demand. and seemingly it is very easy to meet the demand at daylength 30, as i have 6 times the demand and the difficulty option is on hard.

yes, the demand will rise with town population, but the cargo delievered will also rise as other towns are getting larger and therefore more passengers and mail travel. this one, however, is tricky for goods, because at one point you just won't have enough factories anymore to meet all the goods demands and you will have to fund your own factories etc. maybe the required amount of goods needs to be smaller.

I will change the passengers and the mail to the daylenght factor by the time I post a newer version.
For the other cargos I really do not think that it is a good idea despite having more time, but maybe you can try and give some feedback ...

Find this code around line 1475 in town_cmd.cpp:

Code: Select all

 /**
 * Calculate demanded goods for towngrowth.
 * @param t This town.
 */
void UpdateTownDemands(Town *t)
{
	t->max_pass     = ((t->population >> 2) * 3 / 5) / _difficulty_town_needed_for_growth[_settings_game.economy.town_growth_cargo];
	t->max_mail     = ((t->population >> 3) / 5) / _difficulty_town_needed_for_growth[_settings_game.economy.town_growth_cargo];
	t->max_food     = ((t->population >> 2) / 7) / _difficulty_town_needed_for_growth[_settings_game.economy.town_growth_cargo];
	t->max_water    = ((t->population >> 4) * 5 / 9) / _difficulty_town_needed_for_growth[_settings_game.economy.town_growth_cargo];
	t->max_goods    = ((t->population >> 2) / 5) / _difficulty_town_needed_for_growth[_settings_game.economy.town_growth_cargo];
}

and do this for each requirement that you want adjusted:

Code: Select all

-	t->max_pass     = ...;
+	t->max_pass     = (...) * _date_daylength_factor;

also to be noted is, that (i assume) even if you are not meeting the full demands your town still grows, just not at full speed. that means smaller towns will grow faster (as the demand is met) and larger towns grow slower.

I know ... there are other factors that influence town growth as well. Not much I can do I think ...
There is the case that when you fund houses it uses the normal town growth values, will have to digg around to see where the others are ...

the transported goods ratio does not make any sense imo. you should calculate the percentage for each demand separately, then take the mean percentage.

it should be like this (example):

pass:
delievered 100; needed 200 (=> 50%)

mail
delievered 20; needed 60 (=> 33%)

goods 0; needed 10 (=> 0%)

=> (50+33+0)/3 =>

22% transported goods ratio.

this means for my example from the post before, if you meet the full passenger demand but have 0 for the other demands, that your transported goods ratio is 33% (because you fully satisy one third of the demands).. this way all three demands (pass, mail, goods) are weighted equally. that means if you just meet one demand (doesn't matter which) then it will be 33%.

Hmm, 88 / 3 = 22?
Also you forgot the 5 station requirement.

As I mentioned above ... I did not want to complicate the code at the time of writing as I did not yet know how many requirements each town would have, it makes a difference where the town is located and I focussed on getting something that works at all and is somewhat fun to play with.
Then I looked at adjusting the different gui sizes ... If the patch is on or off also makes a difference besides different locations.
Next would be taking the mean value of the percentages. I agree that would be better and that is the intention in the end.

With current code the requirements for each climate are:

Code: Select all

- Temperate
Everywhere     -> 4 -> stations, passengers, mail, goods. 
- Arctic:
Below snowline -> 4 -> stations, passengers, mail, goods.
Above snowline -> 5 -> stations, passengers, mail, goods, food.
- Tropical:
In desert      -> 6 -> stations, passengers, mail, goods, food, water.
In forest      -> 4 -> stations, passengers, mail, goods.
- Toyland:
Everywhere     -> 5 -> stations, passengers, mail, Sweets, Fizzy Drinks

So that means that I have to handle different cases differently ...
- 1: Temperate, Arctic below snowline, Tropical forest.
- 2: Arctic above snowlne, Toyland.
- 3: Tropical desert

lastly, the cargo class "food" for the temperate climate from the FIRS NewGRF set seems not to be classed under "goods". this is unfortunate, because it is much easier to get produce food, than it is to produce goods with the FIRS set.

I added the food requirement for temperate but afterwards removed it as the houses there do not accept food.

My problem is that it seems to send more cargo to the more far destination and keep the other "dry" even if capacity is not at all meeted for the long destination... I realize i could just put manual on all cargos... but i still like to make hub to distribute then the foods and goods by trucks, i could also use transfer order for that... but well i m looking to use the cargodist features to avoid that !

So what should i change in the "linkgraph" settings to have the expected behaviour? the effect of distance i would guess... but wich way ? 100% or 0%???

I think the higher the number the more distant destinations are prefered, so you should set it lower for what you want, feel free to ask this question to fonso to be sure... The original author has a better understanding of what those settings do exactly.
Don't ask about Express cargo though as IIRC that has been removed in the recent versions of cargodist.
(I'm keeping it untill I break savegame compatibilty with previous versions ... which will happen at some point but not just yet.)

Thanks for the future answer ! also i haven t said it yet so : Thanks for the work you putted in the latest release ! it s awesome !

Thank you for the kind words. Glad you like it.
It is slightly becoming a dayjob to maintain it ...

[AppeL]

lastly, the cargo class "food" for the temperate climate from the FIRS NewGRF set seems not to be classed under "goods". this is unfortunate, because it is much easier to get produce food, than it is to produce goods with the FIRS set.

I added the food requirement for temperate but afterwards removed it as the houses there do not accept food.

well, i am running a truck line delievering food to a town in temperate as we speak, and here is a screen.
some houses accept food, others goods.. never both.. so it seems that the FIRS NewGRF has edited the demands for half the houses to need "food" instead of "goods" so that food and goods are accepted in town.

i will now edit the demand for pass and mail to take the daylength into account.

the thing with larger towns growing slower and smaller ones growing faster: i meant that as a positive thing, because even though you might only be able to meet 10% of the demands for big towns (like your screen) they still grow, but slow. how do towns grow anyways.. assuming they grow at 100%, does that mean, that for example a town gets 10% bigger a year or does it mean 1000 new people each year. i.e. is it relative to population size or absolute? if it is relative then the slowed down growth for big towns doesn't matter that much, as they still grow quite a lot

also in my towns the mail produced in each town is almost half the amount of the passengers produced, so should the demands not mirror this ratio? then for mail and passengers the challenge is to get the sheer numbers. the demand for goods can be smaller as the effort to get only a small amount of goods (connect all industries etc etc) is bigger anyways and somewhat limited as you cannot have that many industries.

then it might be something like:

pass demand 1000
mail demand 500
goods demand 100

for mail and pass demand it is no problem to grow quite big, because the supply on the map will also get bigger as other towns grow. goods demand could grow slower, because it requires more effort (connecting all the industries) to get 100 goods to town than it is to get 500 mails (just make a railway between 2 big cities, done). especially when playing with FIRS as the industries are a lot more complex.

so i don't really understand why the demand for mails is smaller than the demand for goods


edit: ofc i made a mistake calculating
here is the corrected version with stations.


it should be like this (example):

pass:
delievered 100; needed 200 (=> 50%)

mail
delievered 20; needed 60 (=> 33%)

goods
delievered 0; needed 10 (=> 0%)

stations (should be stations that cargo was delieverd to last month, so that you cannot make a city bigger by just putting 5 stations in it)
4 out of 5 (80%)

=> (50+33+0+80)/4 => 40.75% transported goods ratio...

(by the way, does that mean that transported goods ratio is = town growth?)

[Dwight_K._Schrute]

I have a different suggestion to make for the calculation. I think it should depend on the setting.

something like that:

Easy: AppeL's calculation

Average: Chill's calculation

Hard: Lowest one counts. So if one is 0% Town growth is 0%.

I think that is the way trunk handles town growth in desert or above snowline or am I wrong? And I think it would be cool to have this function for every town.

I don't want a twon grow FOREVER only because I transport passangers... not even 25 %

[ChillCore]

well, i am running a truck line delievering food to a town in temperate as we speak, and here is a screen.

You are using a grf that makes houses accept food in temperate.
Without grf I can not find a single house that accepts food. Even the shopping mall and offices only accept goods.
Without acceptance for food the patch is broken amd growth rate will remain at zero if I make it a requirement.
I do not want to force people use grfs (*) and the different requirements per climate gives some variation between them, without that there is no point in having different climates is there?

(*)
I do not want to add code that depends on specific grfs being loaded neither, things are complicated enough as they are ... and where would it end?

i will now edit the demand for pass and mail to take the daylength into account.

Have fun ... I have changed it in my source already and the numbers seem to be insane to meet.
See attached screenshot -> hard and daylength factor 30 ... sure you want this?
Ignore the transported goods ratio as it is the value from before adjusting the daylenght factor and is only adjusted when the new month is started.
Also I have not yet adjusted the strings that I mentioned with my prevous screenshot -> already done in my separate patch but not yet imported in the patchpack.

the thing with larger towns growing slower and smaller ones growing faster: i meant that as a positive thing, because even though you might only be able to meet 10% of the demands for big towns (like your screen) they still grow, but slow. how do towns grow anyways.. assuming they grow at 100%, does that mean, that for example a town gets 10% bigger a year or does it mean 1000 new people each year. i.e. is it relative to population size or absolute? if it is relative then the slowed down growth for big towns doesn't matter that much, as they still grow quite a lot

...

In short the population depends on the number of houses and how many each house holds. Population grows by new houses being created or being replaced by bigger versions.
Calculations for town growth (new/replaced houses) are rather complicated as many factors influence it. I do not understand it fully yet and I only adjust the final growth_rate value. IIRC there is even a chance of town growth without you being active in that town.
you may want to have a browse through the town files in clean trunk for a better understanding. (I have not yet examined them fully as I based my patch on an already existing one.)

also in my towns the mail produced in each town is almost half the amount of the passengers produced, so should the demands not mirror this ratio? then for mail and passengers the challenge is to get the sheer numbers.

then it might be something like:

pass demand 1000
mail demand 500
goods demand 100

In town_cmd.cpp above "void UpdateTownDemands(Town *t)" you will find "void UpdateTownGenCargo(Town *t)".
I did not modify the numbers of generated cargo other than change the syntax, so I could make a difference between generated and transported.
The lines for generated cargo in the gui read: Generated last month: x. Max y.
y is the amount that all houses in this town produced, x is how many of those could be moved to a station to be transported -> x depends on catchment area of stations.

I can change the demand so that the mail demand is bigger than goods (at daylenght factor 1). That is the tuning part that still needs to be done I mentioned before. Although I do not want the generated and demanded passengers-mail ratio to be perfect reflections of eachother. Should it be like that? If yes why?

I have a different suggestion to make for the calculation. I think it should depend on the setting.

something like that:

Easy: AppeL's calculation

Average: Chill's calculation

Hard: Lowest one counts. So if one is 0% Town growth is 0%.

I think that is the way trunk handles town growth in desert or above snowline or am I wrong? And I think it would be cool to have this function for every town.

I don't want a twon grow FOREVER only because I transport passangers... not even 25 %

Don't worry I am not going to change that feature as I like it myself.
Difficulty will only influence the numbers of demanded goods ... if one of the requirements is zero than town growth will be zero like now, except if something else influences the towngrowth. eg. funding houses (and the other things I still have to find.)
Other things will not show up in the gui as it will still say zero.

What we were discussing above is how the transported goods ratio should be calculated. -> which is later used to calculate town growth rate but other than that unrelated to it. see screenshot, growth rate is zero because no goods were transported last month.

Edit: forgot to attach the picture ...

[NekoMaster]

OT : Dude! That town is awesome! What town set is that?

[Dwight_K._Schrute]

Oh ok. Perfect for me I set my limits to 700 So I can finally use Swedish Houses again

It was different in the testing versions, right??

[ChillCore]

OT : Dude! That town is awesome! What town set is that?

Swedish Houses Set beta1 but I also have W2W (wall to wall) in that game.

It was different in the testing versions, right??

Quite different yes.

Besides tuning the demands and the "total transported cargo ratio" calculation I do not think that much will change anymore.
Maybe also some more coding style needs to be done -> updating the comments so that it is more clear to what happens when and where in the patch. And I still need to fix the gui resizing when the town becomes big enough for having demands or the patch is turned on or off. (-> for town guis that are open at the time of change.)

[AppeL]

well, yes, difficulty "hard" and daylength 30 IS insane... but why should it be more insane than for daylength 1 and "hard"? i still don't understand

daylength 1:

delievered: 100, demand: 500;

daylength 30:

delievered 3000; demand 15000;

it's the same ratio... ?
maybe the growth of the demand needs to be tweaked so that it doesn't get ridiculously high with 50k inhabitens towns...

also in your screen, how much transit do you actually have in that town? passengers last month is at 1600, while the max is 30k o_O


very important is also how good your whole network is... the more towns you connect to the transport network, the more passengers travel.. so if you just connect two towns, then obviously you are never gonna meet the whole demand.. but if you connect the whole map and cities are sufficiently big, then you will have tons of passengers

[ChillCore]

...
maybe the growth of the demand needs to be tweaked so that it doesn't get ridiculously high with 50k inhabitens towns...

Sure, but how then and how much is the maximum?

also in your screen, how much transit do you actually have in that town? passengers last month is at 1600, while the max is 30k o_O

Not much as the passenger and mail service were installed when the town was still small, I did not yet expand it. There are only few stations in that town handling passengers and as that number depends on station coverage ... . See attachment 1

Note that this game has been started a long time ago and has not yet been played with the towngrowth patch in mind. I am first concentrating on moving everything everywhere. Once that is done I will expand my passenger service and start providing supplies (Game is being played with FIRS). See attachment 2.

I have left the game running for a month now and the numbers are updated. The generated cargo seems to have multiplied with the daylength factor too. I did not change that and I did not expect that to happen, ... something to investigate it seems. See attachment 3.

[Eddi]

depending on the style of daylength patch, the industry production increases (most common) or the interval between industry productions is reduced, to keep it the same (rare, but at least one daylength patch had a switch for that. or that was only a local modification of mine...)

it is generally not a good idea to divide industry production by daylength factor, as that makes you get less output for the same input.

[Fenris]

Hi ChillCore,

is there a problem with FIRS and the new towngrowth-patch? I've started a new game with v12 (the binary posted on page 64 of this thread) and the delievered goods wasn't count in the town-window. Passenger or mail works without a problem. The station to which i deliver accept goods and the trucks unload them without problems (i don't use transfer or unload all command). Also there is no store or another industry which accept goods in this town. Another game without FIRS works as it should (all other GRF's were the same).

I read the last pages of this thread and it seems other people have no(t that) problem with FIRS. But may be i missed something because my english isn't the best.

Oh and before i forgott it: Thanks for this great patchpack.

Here is a savegame if you need one. Look for the town of Hürth.

[romazoon]

mmh i haven t seen any town with the name Hürt... Is it not the wrong save game you uploaded?

and the only town you provide with goods, does take them into account...

Anyway this is not the case here but i thought maybe you are trying to bring goods to a town that doesn t require them (size setting), for those cities, the counter do not even show in the city window.

Also i have a small question/problem about town growth: my city just doesn t grow at all since now 10 years of gameplay, but i always had around 102% town growth, and now it s at 600% but still doesn t build anything. I m not even using the towngrowth patch (it s "off").

here my savegame if you wanna check it. the city with problem is "Kali", the starnge things is that other towns seems to grow...

[Fenris]

mmh i haven t seen any town with the name Hürt... Is it not the wrong save game you uploaded?

The town you see when you load the game is Hürth. How was it called in your game? And this is also the only town i provide with goods (with trains from the furniture factory and trucks to the station in the city). In the town window i see always: Goods last month: 0 Needed for 100%: 371. Is it possible that you looked at a wrong save? To test i've downloaded the one in my post and it was the save with Hürth.

And to your problem:
A few month ago i read about a problem with an daylength-patch. Don't know if it was for the patchpack or in another thread. With an higher daylength-factor the growthrate of town goes down. There was the recommendation to set it not higher than 4. I build a few more busstations in kali and changed the daylengthfactor to 1 and the town starts growing, so it is possible that this problem still exist.

[romazoon]

mmh i was not expecting this, but i guess you are using a town grf or an other town name language... i was so sure that the savegame would keep original name and not translate them even if i don t have any townname grf... well well... sorry for the misunderstanding.

About your problem. When i tried your savegame, the goods delivered by truck where counted in the city window... and i haven t changed any settings... so i don t know why it dosn t appear at to you !!

thanks for trying my savegame btw, i m anyway wrong about the city not growing... it s just very very slow with one station ! i opened the scenario(as it was when i started game) and there "Kali city" had like 90 less inhabitants... so it indeed grew.

[Fenris]

Have you started the game after loading, whitout the correct version of FIRS, so that FIRS wasn't loaded? Because i've done this accidentally at the moment and then the goods were count.

Is there anyone else, who played with FIRS and the towngroth-patch? If it works, which version of FIRS have you used? My testgame was with nightly r1894, but i have the same problem with version 6.4 from bananas.

[Eddi]

is it known that this patch pack creates WAAAAY too many trees? i tried to generate a 1024x1024 map and tree generation takes incredibly long, and almost the whole map is covered with trees.

[supermop]

Also had this problem.