[8bpp] - Discussions on OpenGFX+ - Base Vehicle Expansion

[DanMacK]

Hey all

Awhile back a separate thread was proposed for OpenGFX discussions and it kind of fell by the wayside. In drawing the Toyland locos for OpenGFX, I was inspired to dig up some sprites I did awhile back and breathe some life into this idea.

The basic idea of OpenGFX+ is as follows:

1. Add Earlier Vehicles - Starting in 1900

2. Livery Overrides for trains that require it (MU's, Turbo, HST, Maglev/Mono, etc)

3. Tenders for steam locomotives and possibly cabooses/brake vans

4. Keep the same general plan as OpenGFX for trains (UK in Temp, NA in Arctic and SA/Africa in Tropic)

5. Add a basic tram set

6. Add some variant per climate for RV's eventually as well

7. Add a couple of Semi trucks

Below are some thoughts for the trams (The horsecar blatantly comes from ERVS (Thanks Zephyris)

I've got a couple of them already drawn (The "Interurban" and the "Express") - Names are subjective and added for illustrative purposes only.

I'd propose to start with trams, tenders and possibly livery overrides for the Arctic Turbo, DMU's and HST to start.

**EDIT** Dug up my tender and Turbo sprites for arctic - And added a generic NA caboose

Also added the first 3 trams (Designed for the standard TTD start date of 1950) - Earlier and later ones soon

[Terkhen]

I think that an expansion of base vehicles should be kept as simple as possible. This would give new users additional vehicles to try without having to learn advanced features (such as point 3.). It would have the additional benefit of making the set usable by AIs without requiring special support.

A feature I would love to see is support for new cargos without requiring to refit vehicles (I don't know if it is feasible, though). For example, if a Industry NewGRF adds the "Aluminium" cargo, a new wagon and a new road vehicle would appear for that cargo.

[DanMacK]

A definitely agree with the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) - No NARS here

Tenders are usable by the AI though, and they won't be invasive.

I'm thinking possibly an additional 2 generations of RV's to cover the 1900-1940 era (Horse wagon and a smaller truck/bus)

Trains, I'm open to suggestions...

What are the thoughts about replacing the default trains in Tropic and Arctic with more accurate and common versions with realistic intro dates?

[DJ Nekkid]

my thoughts:

Livery override for the current mus.
A handfull more of them, and as pointed out, if some cargo is present, a new wagon appear.
Some trams (the ones you have there looks good).
Also a couple of generations from late 1800s or 1900 or so, of RVs, and perhaps an engine or two as well.

[DanMacK]

For a new wagon to appear if a cargo is added though, the wagon would almost need to be part of the actual industry grf. (IE, a paper mill designed for Temperate would have the paper car and a paper truck available)

[planetmaker]

A definitely agree with the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) - No NARS here
Tenders are usable by the AI though, and they won't be invasive.

What are the thoughts about replacing the default trains in Tropic and Arctic with more accurate and common versions with realistic intro dates?

I agree that this base set extension set should rather stick to a KISS principle - there's a multitude of sophisticated sets around. Personally I would also advocate to not really replace existing base set vehicles but to only add additonal ones. The sprites themselves could be replaced already in OpenGFX themselves, if they're better and offer a nice set - and then adding selected additional engines in this extension newgrf.

Livery override for the current mus.
A handfull more of them, and as pointed out, if some cargo is present, a new wagon appear.
Some trams (the ones you have there looks good).
Also a couple of generations from late 1800s or 1900 or so, of RVs, and perhaps an engine or two as well.

I do agree, that all seems feasable, though we should in all of those areas limit us to literally roughly a hand only or so.

For a new wagon to appear if a cargo is added though, the wagon would almost need to be part of the actual industry grf. (IE, a paper mill designed for Temperate would have the paper car and a paper truck available)

Actually not quite... it would be sufficient to provide some additional cargo definitions to existing wagons (similar to old wagons new cargos) - and if graphic artists feel like to supply additional sprites with loaded wagons (or some new wagons anyhow).

Those sprites you posted make an excellent start

[Zephyris]

I think this sounds like an excellent idea.

w/regard to new cargo support I think simply adding cargo class-based refitting to the default wagons/vehicles, supported by the addition of generic cargo graphics (ie. crates, covered hopper, etc) to guarantee some graphical support.

[DanMacK]

Here's a basic breakdown of ideas for Arctic - I'm thinking North American here - Also noted are the basic equivlents spec-wise for the original diesels as well as the revised ones.

Original TTD
=================

Wills 2-8-0 - 1100HP - 1945

MJS 250 - 600HP - 1955

Kelling 3100 - 1500HP - 1958

CS 4000 - 4000HP - 1962

CS 2400 - 2400HP - 1965

MJS 1000 - 2200HP - 1965

Centennial - 6600HP - 1972

Turner Turbo - 3500HP - 1977

Revised List * Denotes not changed from OpenGFX Base
==========

Wills 4-6-0 - 1895 (New)

Wills 2-8-0 - 1910 (Move Date)

CS 2-8-2 - 1922 (New)

CS 4-6-2 - 1928 (New)

MJS 250 (EMD SW) - 1940 - 600HP (Move Date)

Kelling 3100 - (EMD F7) - 1945 - 1500HP (Move Date/new Graphics)

CS 2400 (GE U25B) - 1965 - 2400HP *

MJS 1000 (EMD GP30) - 1965 - 2200HP * (Move Date/New Graphics)

CS "Universal" (GE U30C) - 1970 - 3000HP (New)

Centennial (EMD DD40) - 1972 - 6600HP *

Turner Turbo (Turbo Train) - 1977 - 3500HP *

MJS 3000 - (EMD SD40-2) - 1980 - 3000HP (New)

MJS FP40 - (EMD F40PH) - 1985 - 3000HP (New)

CS 4000 - (GE Dash 840C) - 1988 - 4000HP (Move Date)

CS 4400 - (GE AC4400W) - 2001 - 4400HP (New)

CS "42P" - (GE P42) - 2005 - 4200HP (New)
=============================
These are just thoughts, but it gives a more thorough gameplay and keeps things relatively simple

[Vemarkis]

I'm pretty sure CS4000 is the Krauss Maffei ML-4000. The original sprite looks rather similar to one, the introduction year is about right. Weight & Power, and even speed are all correct for a Krauss Maffei ML-4000 too. The EMD SD24 would have right year for the CS2400, but the speed(by 5mp/h) and weight(by 50 tons) are off.

[Zephyris]

Looks like a sensible list...

[DanMacK]

I thought about keeping the Krauss in, and I actually still may do that. The CS2400 actually reminded me of the Alco C424. I actually like the North American progressing of MB's original arctic set and thought about paying homage to that with the later diesels as well.

[molace]

I like the idea and if you have some drawing job for me, I'm in.

I'm for the idea to have double decker coahes for passenger/mail/goods/valuables.

Temperate - European
Arctic - North-American
Tropic - South-American/African

I have posted some livery override ideas in the main OpenGFX thread.

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 82#p865482

[DanMacK]

Molace, I sent you a PM with some info

[molace]

Here is my concept for the new temperate engines. ( this is just a concept, the other views are not done yet)

Some of them will have livery overrides. I'll do those too.

Green - already in base
Yellow - name already in added new graphics, so there won't be any repetition
Red - Brand new graphics with barnd new names

Later we should discuss their properties (intro year, speed, HP etc.)

[planetmaker]

Wow... tasty sprites

Can I ask also you in advance, to use for the trains Pikka's newgrf templates? It will make coding easier.

Cheers,
pm

[molace]

Wow... tasty sprites

Can I ask also you in advance, to use for the trains Pikka's newgrf templates? It will make coding easier.

Cheers,
pm

I will do some concept of the my new monolev ideas first, then do these. But I think they all will be ready for the next weekend.
Okay. I'll place them the same way as I have did with my wagons sprites a few months before.


Still have some questions:
Are this amount enough? Or should I add more?
1CC or 2CC?(figured why not do it now)
Do you have some cooler name ideas for some of them(especially the ones I name ER 'XX')

[colossal404]

I think 1CC is enough, it's just a basic set.
The names are perfect now, don't need to complicate them.
And as I see You base the new models on trains from the UKRS, so You don't have so much work with them.

[DanMacK]

Not a bad plan molace. I was thinking having a 4-4-0 type and an 0-6-0 goods type, as well as a tank engine available in 1900. I was also considering using the original TTO locos with accurate graphics.

Thoughts?

[molace]

Glad you like them. Alright they stay 1CC. Less work for me.

Seeing as the original TTD locos are all based on UK engines, I looked up the UKRS set and tried mimic the style of those engines(of course th UKRS set is realistic, mine is deliberately not), I also mimed some from the continent (the S.N.O.W. and the 'Eurorunner')

Some engines are also resemble continental european engines
(colossal404 probably understands why I nicknamed one the "Rattler")

I think the original locos from TTO are pretty much the same in TTD (there are a few exceptions, i know)
If you feel like we need more engines then I'm for it. (But still we should stick with TTD's style of made-up engine names)

I think the first steamer could be introduced in 1900's the last in the 1950's, the first diesel in the 1940's, the last in 1990's,
the first electric in 1960's, the last in 2000's, so there will be some fading (unlike in TTD where the first electric only would come out after the last diesel (in the 1970's , which cannot be more ahistoric)
I think there should be at least two engine introduced per decade up until the 1950's, three per decade after.

[Zephyris]

I would quite like 2CC if possible, it is a simple eyecandy feature so wouldnt complicate gameplay but would look nice though! I do realise it is quite a bit of effort for drawing...