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 Post subject: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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What would be involved in making an undo function which kept track of all of your changes and would allow you to undo an action. Many programs have an undo and at times when making an intersection I wish I could undo what I just did.

I realize this could cause some problems in multiplayer posibly, but what do people think?


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:24 pm 
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linky linky linky link


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Thats interesting, but i didn't notice anywhere in the 6 pages that it said why we cant have one.

Is it a gameplay or mechanical reason as to why one isn't possible?


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Tycoon
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Did you actually read viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38377&hilit=undo this thread? Belugas (viewtopic.php?p=708061#p708061) and dihedral (viewtopic.php?p=708128#p708128) explain quite well why it isn't possible.


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:34 am 
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ThunderAI wrote:
Thats interesting, but i didn't notice anywhere in the 6 pages that it said why we cant have one.
Is it a gameplay or mechanical reason as to why one isn't possible?

Are you sure you've read it all?
Gameplay wise, i'd say it makes no sens
Mechanical wise, it is a total non-sens. Amout of memory required, building up the save-process-on-all-actions, etc etc... beurk!
Humanly wise (gigantic amount of time devoted to develop the tool that would help the poor souls who do not know how to load a save game), it's an heresy.

So.. undo button? NO WAY

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:14 pm 
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there is a perfectly fine "undo" option, it is called "autosave".

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:39 am 
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Transport Coordinator
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Even better then a undo button would be a planning mode where you could design a route without haveing to build it and once you are happy with the design you construct it. Though this would be just as if not more complicated then an undo button. It wont happen but it would be nice :).


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:24 am 
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Traffic Manager
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l_Blue_l wrote:
Even better then a undo button would be a planning mode where you could design a route without haveing to build it and once you are happy with the design you construct it. Though this would be just as if not more complicated then an undo button. It wont happen but it would be nice :).


We have this feature already, it's called save and load it up in another instance of OTTD ;)


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:35 am 
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Chief Executive
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That requires you to perform the actions twice, and doesn't save you from erroneous mouse clicks. Well loading from the save does save you from erroneous mouse clicks, but then you have to perform the actions a third time.


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:49 am 
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Tycoon
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Aali wrote:
l_Blue_l wrote:
Even better then a undo button would be a planning mode where you could design a route without haveing to build it and once you are happy with the design you construct it. Though this would be just as if not more complicated then an undo button. It wont happen but it would be nice :).


We have this feature already, it's called save and load it up in another instance of OTTD ;)

Not really, Aali.

What l_Blue_l suggests is more like what (new)AI's (e.g. AdmiralAI) do when building rails - first pathfind and terraform then boom just drop the track down and buy trains....could be interesting...

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Patches (OpenTTD): Improved smooth_economy [in trunk], More (diesel) smoke [in trunk], Realistic_acceleration finetune.

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Tycoon
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SirkoZ wrote:
What l_Blue_l suggests is more like what (new)AI's (e.g. AdmiralAI) do when building rails - first pathfind and terraform then boom just drop the track down and buy trains....could be interesting...

That is not quite true. Ai's (in NoAI) first do pathfinding, but they build the route tile-by-tile, just a little bit quicker then humans do. That would be the exact same thing you'd do by first looking at the map (where am I going to build my route?) and only then starting the to the route on the spots you saw earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Tycoon
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you do have a planing stage, or should have anyway - basically you should turn on your thinker and look at the map, and consider where you want to lay tracks!
then you build. c'mon - you seriously just want openttd to allow you to act as stupid while building, without you losing your company because you threw out all the money you were loaned by the bank - you really expect managers to run companies like that?
suggestion: use a bit of brain (if possible) and once you have a rough idea, start building!
if it's not possible to use or brain, or if you dont have a brain - you might want to start playing sing star on a PS!


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Tycoon
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I see it like this:
When you lay a piece of track in the wrong direction in real life you don't have an undo button either. You'll have to pick it up again and that will cost you. Both time and money.

While our game isn't completely realistic, one way or the other it's still a model of reality.

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Tycoon
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i probably would not have said anything if there were not these 'dig-ups' too
viewtopic.php?p=756878#p756878
viewtopic.php?p=756856#p756856

if you have issues with anybodies signature, talk to one of the admins, they then will deal with what you believe is an issue!

welcoming users who actually expect/require/demand to be welcomed is no fun!


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:35 am 
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Chief Executive
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FooBar wrote:
I see it like this:
When you lay a piece of track in the wrong direction in real life you don't have an undo button either. You'll have to pick it up again and that will cost you. Both time and money.


The chances of laying a piece of track in the wrong direction in real life are much smaller than in this game. Here, a stray mouse click can do it. In real life, people review building plans, and it actually takes time to build, there is so much more time and so many more people who would notice something.

Now I'm not saying we should have a confirm button or anything stupid like that, just that accidentally building things wrong (and accidentally blowing up too much) in this game don't work as per real life.


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:25 am 
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Yes, that's actually true as well.

Although I don't miss an undo button, there's clearly a need for it from a certain group of users. How about not an undo history but a more simple 'undo last action'. Although that's probably too much to ask too :P

@dihedral:
Are you sure you posted in the right topic? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:18 pm 
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TTDPatch Developer
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Define "last action".

"Last user action that caused a cost" is probably not what most people want.

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Alright, I was thinking about an action being the start of a certain building button getting activated until it gets deactivated or the undo button pressed.

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Dutch Tram Set | Dutch Trainset 2 | Dutch Road Furniture


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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Which is still not likely what people want. If I hit "undo", I'd want to reverse:
1) Station construction,
2) Right-of-way construction, and
3) Terraforming to enable 1 and 2.

In most circumstances, that's four different tools.

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 Post subject: Re: An undo button?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:34 pm 
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And thus at least four different actions. If you're trying to say that an undo button is useless in most cases, just say so. You don't have to tell me that an undo history is better. I am already aware of that (try writing NFO in notepad). My suggestion was merely a compromise to reduce memory consumption. But leaving an undo button out is perfectly fine with me, I don't need one of those anyways for TTD.

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Dutch Tram Set | Dutch Trainset 2 | Dutch Road Furniture


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