Japan Set Development

[krtaylor]

I think it's a little early yet to start work on a complete industry replacement. We should probably start with the graphics for the things that a) fit with the current industries and b) we know for sure will be in the new industry set too. Things like iron ore mines, steel mill, and farms.

[Toni Babelony]

Okay, slowly regaining more internet.... Internet... Don't expect me to write something every day (too busy with work and the other gender), but I'll try to contribute something useful.

I haven't yet got the chance to test the newest .grfs, nor even the new OTTD releases and I haven't got the database for the EMUs and other stuff ATM. Even if I had them I'd have too little time to update 'em... Anyways, I was away due to moving to a new house and my holidays. I'm now still in the Netherlands working my butt of, but don't worry, I still follow tt-forums! Even if I don't play OTTD Just wanted to let you know I'm still in the race.

In the next coming days I hope to read the forums through and reply to old PMs if I'm not too drunk or busy watching pr0n or something else disturbing my progress in life. Anyways, I just lost a bit of interest in the set, but it's slowly returning since I realise there is still quite a fanbase for it! That gives me hope and motivation.

Please, let the developers of the set know from time to time if you care about the set!
Sure, in the end we do this for our own fun, but some motivation helps a lot!

Yours truly,
Toni

[NekoMaster]

In the next coming days I hope to read the forums through and reply to old PMs if I'm not too drunk or busy watching pr0n or something else disturbing my progress in life. Anyways, I just lost a bit of interest in the set, but it's slowly returning since I realise there is still quite a fanbase for it! That gives me hope and motivation.

LOL! : P for me the thing that will tye up my time will be school pretty soon :_ (

[dandan]

Hi Toni, good to hear from you.

And since dandan will shortly be leaving us for 2 months, I'd rather get something out now then let everything hold for awhile again.

More like six weeks hopefully. We have discussed this in PMs a bit. I would personally prefer fixing the bugs first, but releasing a beta is really fine with me, too. Sanchimaru, Steven, Toni, I think our artists should really give their okay before anything is released, because some of the things left on the todo list concern the sprites.

NekoMaster, I like your proposed industries. Though I am not so sure about gold and diamonds in Japan, do/did those exist there in large quantities? And I think we should definitely include a car factory, since Japan is a major producer of cars and we already have two special car transporter wagons.

As I said, very good suggestions. I am just afraid that no one will be able to work on them any time soon, unless you start doing that yourself.

[NekoMaster]

Hi Toni, good to hear from you.

And since dandan will shortly be leaving us for 2 months, I'd rather get something out now then let everything hold for awhile again.

More like six weeks hopefully. We have discussed this in PMs a bit. I would personally prefer fixing the bugs first, but releasing a beta is really fine with me, too. Sanchimaru, Steven, Toni, I think our artists should really give their okay before anything is released, because some of the things left on the todo list concern the sprites.

NekoMaster, I like your proposed industries. Though I am not so sure about gold and diamonds in Japan, do/did those exist there in large quantities? And I think we should definitely include a car factory, since Japan is a major producer of cars and we already have two special car transporter wagons.

As I said, very good suggestions. I am just afraid that no one will be able to work on them any time soon, unless you start doing that yourself.

Well, japan does have some Gold and Diamond Mines, but not a huge amount like here in Canada or in Austrialia or the US

[krtaylor]

I'd prefer to stick with industries that a) Japan is famous for, such as cars and electronics, or b) can be drawn so as to look readily Japanese, and add to the Japanese "look" of the complete set. Diamond and gold mines, eh, not really.

[NekoMaster]

I'd prefer to stick with industries that a) Japan is famous for, such as cars and electronics, or b) can be drawn so as to look readily Japanese, and add to the Japanese "look" of the complete set. Diamond and gold mines, eh, not really.

Meh, anyways, I do think that they should be putin but maybe as a Add On (JSI Misc Industries)
also I think that the Metal Refinery should be in the steel making proccess : ) and a gold refinery if the gold mine is added on as a extra later on.

BTW, will Natural Gas be in?? Too bad OpenTTD doesnt have Pipe Lines, or just make Special NG Tanker Ships, trains or Trucks.

[krtaylor]

I am definitely opposed to multilayered industry add-ons, that would be just too confusing. One set with everything in it, that's the way to go.

NG isn't a good candidate because it isn't hauled around by train and truck en masse. Of course it CAN be, but not usually in bulk because it's too expensive and finicky to do that way. You normally only see that when it is being delivered (the "last mile" or so.) Not suitable to the TTD world.

[NekoMaster]

I am definitely opposed to multilayered industry add-ons, that would be just too confusing. One set with everything in it, that's the way to go.

NG isn't a good candidate because it isn't hauled around by train and truck en masse. Of course it CAN be, but not usually in bulk because it's too expensive and finicky to do that way. You normally only see that when it is being delivered (the "last mile" or so.) Not suitable to the TTD world.

damn, ok, well will the be Uranium and Nuclear Power Plants, Japan has over 30 reactors i believe

[krtaylor]

Japan has a great many nuclear power plants, yes. I'm not so sure that they have uranium mines, don't they import it? Also, I don't think uranium is normally shipped in bulk, the pellets are very small and you don't need many of them. IIRC they go by truck, small truck at that.

Now, nuclear waste can be, and is, shipped by train, so in theory you could use a nuclear plant as a SOURCE of nuclear waste that's shipped to a burying facility, but I dunno how popular that would be.

I do have a thought though. In the original TTD, in the Tropic climate, the lumber paid by far the most of any cargo. But in order to get it, you had to build your own sawmill in a suitably forested spot, at vast expense, and then periodically replant the trees at your own expense. So you couldn't do it early in the game when you didn't have enough money, only later on.

Similarly, I bet it could be coded such that nuclear power plants start appearing in the 60s, and supply nuclear waste for disposal, BUT there is no waste disposal facility provided free by the game. You have to build it yourself, at vast expense. Once you do, transporting waste there would be extremely lucrative.

Anyone else like that idea?

[NekoMaster]

Japan has a great many nuclear power plants, yes. I'm not so sure that they have uranium mines, don't they import it? Also, I don't think uranium is normally shipped in bulk, the pellets are very small and you don't need many of them. IIRC they go by truck, small truck at that.

Now, nuclear waste can be, and is, shipped by train, so in theory you could use a nuclear plant as a SOURCE of nuclear waste that's shipped to a burying facility, but I dunno how popular that would be.

I do have a thought though. In the original TTD, in the Tropic climate, the lumber paid by far the most of any cargo. But in order to get it, you had to build your own sawmill in a suitably forested spot, at vast expense, and then periodically replant the trees at your own expense. So you couldn't do it early in the game when you didn't have enough money, only later on.

Similarly, I bet it could be coded such that nuclear power plants start appearing in the 60s, and supply nuclear waste for disposal, BUT there is no waste disposal facility provided free by the game. You have to build it yourself, at vast expense. Once you do, transporting waste there would be extremely lucrative.

Anyone else like that idea?

Heh, I know, how about as for the Uranium thing, have a Special SeaPort Maybe Like Uranium Port and it generates between 12-120 pellets a month and there would be a special set of trucks called [Manufacturer][Model]Special Utilty Truck, and can be refit to hold from 6 Pellets (When the nuclear program starts in the 60's) to like 34 pellets (Later on near and after 2000) or can be Refitted to hold hold nuclear waste, Both the Uranium Model and the NW Model would look like a Fortified Cube van to a Fortified 5-ton truck.

Oh! BTW, maybe in the year either 2020 or 2030 (or whatever seams good) Fusion Reacotrs can apear and need Detrium or something like that and it produces Fusion Waste. again it would be Imported through a Sepcial port and by the time fusion Power plants roll around there Will be the option to refit Special Utilty Trucks to Detrium and Fusion Waste to send to a Waste Facility.

One more thing, you should try and make it so that a Nuclear Waste Dump should be Placed far away from Water, Forest and Towns since it would Lower your rating if it was near water or forests and it would stunt growth of a near by town or make it lose population.

[cmoiromain]

I like your ideas. Only one small note, nuclear fusion produces no waste, since it creates helium.

[NekoMaster]

I like your ideas. Only one small note, nuclear fusion produces no waste, since it creates helium.

Ok then, I dont think theres rlly anything that could use Helium other then a Circus or a Science Center (As Liquid Helium)
But yeah, i hope thats gonna be in there : )

[DJ Nekkid]

it's fission we are talking about, however, it's not helium either in a fusion station, it's hydrogen

[NekoMaster]

it's fission we are talking about, however, it's not helium either in a fusion station, it's hydrogen

You relise I know that -.- im 16 and in grade 11 here

[DaleStan]

Neko is correct. Fusion generates helium.

Ideally, anyway; it is possible to end up with some heavier elements, but once you've got helium, you've already released approximately 80% of the maximum possible fusion-generated energy. Carbon or oxygen will bring you up to around 90%.

[krtaylor]

I doubt that either helium or hydrogen are going to be carted round in bulk by train. Anyway, the set doesn't really go beyond 2020. Let's confine ourselves to historical reality and realism.

[NekoMaster]

I doubt that either helium or hydrogen are going to be carted round in bulk by train. Anyway, the set doesn't really go beyond 2020. Let's confine ourselves to historical reality and realism.

ok then, if it doesnt go beyond 2020 (which sucks) then maybe some time you could make a Japan Sci Fi set that works along side this

[krtaylor]

dandan, here's another bug for the list - the Class 72 is underpowered. It can't climb hills or accelerate worth beans, which is wrong for an EMU. I think perhaps the powered-wagons isn't working correctly?

[dandan]

As far as I can see from a quick check, the code is alright. I believe the problem is more with the stats: According to the train table, the Class 72 just has a very low HP. And then there is the problem with wagon weights (that I have already put on the TODO list.) With most of the old MUs ("old" meaning from previous versions of the set), the wagons just have some generic low weight, but still add the same HP as the loco. With the new ones, I have mostly used the same weight for all wagons. That has probably made some low HP trains too heavy. I could just apply a quick fix now, but I think it would be better if someone with access to more detailed train stats could help me to rework the stats when I get back in October. There could be several reasons why the current ones aren't working:

- the figures are wrong, for example because the figure for an entire consist of several wagons has been used for a single wagon (this has already happened in at least one case)
- the figures are correct and the Class 72 is just unsuitable for hills
- all figures are correct, but the game mechanics are such that we find the real figures unusable.

The last point is complicated by the fact that "realistic acceleration" seems to behave somewhat differently in TTDP and OTTD, respectively.