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Do you use ECS with TTDP?
I use ECS under TTDP 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
I use ECS under TTDP and OTTD 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
I use ECS under OTTD 92%  92%  [ 142 ]
Total votes: 154
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:46 am 
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George wrote:
athanasios wrote:
Cities expand and you have houses around the industries.
Farms, fruit plantations, forest are closing down at this case. Do you suggest other industries to do the same? Here in SPb the situation is the same. In the centre there is the old town. Then goes industry area (circle), than goes the next houses area, and now it again starts to create a new industry area outside houses area. The town looks like circles (one inside the other).

:o !!! George you answered all my queries (without even having to ask for it).

In my City, being an island, limited space is a big constraint. With land prices rocketing sky high, many industries have closed & have shifted to places away from the city. Many will be tempted to ask why do they do this . Well the government gives some incentives to develop rural areas + they make lots of money just selling the land in city. I feel other industries should shutdown too like farms, fruit plantation, forests with a new one coming up near it ( in relative terms).
Another point raised will be - when do you close down an industry? The solution- when a particular industry is surrounded by town zone 4 (i mean town with concrete side walks with lamp posts). then the real estate prices will be very high & it would be highly profitable to shift the industry to another place outside the town.
Waiting for the idea to be pounded to dust!!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:10 pm 
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blitzkrieg wrote:
Waiting for the idea to be pounded to dust!!! :wink:
/me pounds the idea to dust, sweeps up the dust, puts the dust in a bag and takes it to the bank! :D (Gold dust! 8) )
That is an excellent idea ... Can production be made to fall more rapidly, to the point of forcing an industry to close, because the location zone has changed?
I'd like to add to athanasios' and Doctor blitzkrieg's excellent suggestions:
Can the industry be made to change its type? (and graphics too?):
1. Textile Mill becomes a tourist center (The tourists want to see how our forefathers made wool). Do not laugh ... this really happens. :wink:
2. Printing Plant becomes an office building with passengers and mail
3. Factory becomes a retail center (mall) accepting food and goods
4. Large Construction Industry becomes a housing complex with food, passengers and mail
5. Small Construction Industry becomes a cinema complex with passengers (or a theater with tourists)
6. OOPS! - I almost forgot the poor Ship Yard ... It becomes a tourist center (Marina) with tourists.
6. OOPS! #2 - I almost forgot the poor Brewery ... It becomes a Beer Garden accepting food.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:19 pm 
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1) I can force closedown if industry is in town zone 4. Should I do it for every industry?
2) No, Industry can not rebuild/transform itself. Some things from the list are doable, but I do not want to do them myself. I may do only point 1).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:37 pm 
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George wrote:
1) I can force closedown if industry is in town zone 4. Should I do it for every industry?
Would the close down be sudden, at the time the zone becomes 4?
Quote:
2) No, Industry can not rebuild/transform itself. Some things from the list are doable, but I do not want to do them myself. I may do only point 1).
Do you mean that you do not want to draw them, or you do not want to code them?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:30 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
George wrote:
1) I can force closedown if industry is in town zone 4. Should I do it for every industry?
Would the close down be sudden, at the time the zone becomes 4?
I supposed to do the same way as for forest/farm/plantation - to decrease production level every month. So that would mean to close in 6 months if you have ultimate production level, 5 if very high and so on. I can also skip this check every second month for example, so it would take even longer.

wallyweb wrote:
Quote:
2) No, Industry can not rebuild/transform itself. Some things from the list are doable, but I do not want to do them myself. I may do only point 1).
Do you mean that you do not want to draw them, or you do not want to code them?
Both. I find it too much work for too small benefit.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:59 pm 
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George wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
George wrote:
1) I can force closedown if industry is in town zone 4. Should I do it for every industry?
Would the close down be sudden, at the time the zone becomes 4?
I supposed to do the same way as for forest/farm/plantation - to decrease production level every month. So that would mean to close in 6 months if you have ultimate production level, 5 if very high and so on. I can also skip this check every second month for example, so it would take even longer.
I think the 6 months would be fine, and yes, it should be all the industries that are currently available to be built in a town, except perhaps the ship yard and brewery because water might not be available if they were forced to be rebuilt elsewhere.

Quote:
wallyweb wrote:
Do you mean that you do not want to draw them, or you do not want to code them?
Both. I find it too much work for too small benefit.
Well, you still have a lot of work with the other stuff, but perhaps when that is done and you are bored and looking for something new to do ... :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:00 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
George wrote:
I supposed to do the same way as for forest/farm/plantation - to decrease production level every month. So that would mean to close in 6 months if you have ultimate production level, 5 if very high and so on. I can also skip this check every second month for example, so it would take even longer.
I think the 6 months would be fine, and yes, it should be all the industries that are currently available to be built in a town, except perhaps the ship yard and brewery because water might not be available if they were forced to be rebuilt elsewhere.
Quote:
Both. I find it too much work for too small benefit.
Well, you still have a lot of work with the other stuff, but perhaps when that is done and you are bored and looking for something new to do ... :wink:
went to todo list
How does you work with wiki goes? :roll: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:21 pm 
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George wrote:
How does you work with wiki goes? :roll: :mrgreen:
It goes ok. :roll: I should have some more posted later this week. :D
How does your work with ECS go? 8) :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:46 am 
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Don't force all industries to close inside town. Some may stay. A reduced raw material storage capacity would make it harder to feed an industry within the city, or better the industry could shut down periodically (for a month or more) as a penalty from city council because it pollutes. I don't know if these are easy to implement. If you believe that they should close make it so that it takes 1 to 2 years and not 6 months.

Scenario editor should be free from restrictions as we may want to create real life conditions. OK, I have in mind OpenTTD huge maps with few towns where industries can be placed 100 or more tiles from city and map still look empty. Since others may prefer something similar, can you add a parameter that increases distances and finally removes such restrictions? Sorry if I missed something you already did in latest beta releases.

Workers can take the train/bus to go to their work. Hmmm, need I say I 'd like to see industries accept passengers like in Simutrans?

About transforming industries: Our former gas factory has been transformed into an "artcity" (industrial museum, concerts, etc.)

regards
athanasios


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Last edited by athanasios on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:11 am 
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wallyweb wrote:
How does your work with ECS go? 8) :mrgreen:
I've finished the steel mill and now coding the iron ore mine. A plan to finish the ECS machinery vector.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:26 am 
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athanasios wrote:
Don't force all industries to close inside town. Some may stay. A reduced raw material storage capacity would make it harder to feed an industry within the city, or better the industry could shut down periodically (for a month or more) as a penalty from city council because it pollutes. I don't know if these are easy to implement. If you believe that they should close make it s that it takes 1 to 2 years and not 6 months.
that is easy

athanasios wrote:
Scenario editor should be free from restrictions as we may want to create real life conditions.
From all restrictions? This point should be discussed first, be cause I do not like it. What conditions are hard for you in the editor?
Who else thinks the same?

athanasios wrote:
Workers can take the train/bus to go to their work. Hmmm, need I say I 'd like to see industries accept passengers like in Simutrans?
it is easy to make them accept passengers. But it is impossible to make industries to produce passengers or to make passengers affect production (for industries which have 3 input and 2 output already).
Theoretically coders could provide a new callback for industry tiles, so they could produce cargo as houses do (themselves, independently form the industry), but you should ask coders.

athanasios wrote:
About transforming industries: Our former gas factory has been transformed into an "artcity" (industrial museum, concerts, etc.)
I didn't say it is impossible IRL. I said that I do not find it is useful in [O]TTD[P]. It requires much work but gives the same behaviour as a group of houses, placed instead of the industry.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:49 am 
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I feel the same about editor restrictions. I was trying to make some scenarios based on real situation and for example in reallife powerplant is sometimes very far from city, or brewery is actualy in a town that lacks any river or lake nearby. This prevents using ECS for reallife based scenarios a bit, so it would be good to either remove restrictions at editor, or based on parametr given to grf.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:03 am 
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athanasios wrote:
Workers can take the train/bus to go to their work. Hmmm, need I say I 'd like to see industries accept passengers like in Simutrans?

That´s pretty easy. I once set up a .grf to test if that feature would behave well in game:

mb wrote:
[...] Man sieht, dass 7 Arbeiter noch im Betrieb sind (vermutlich kleine Privat-Feier?) während sich 7 andere schon auf den Heimweg begeben haben und gleich in den ankommenden ETA177 einsteigen werden. Kohle und Erz sind noch ausreichend vorhanden und sobald die neue Schicht anrückt wird auch wieder produziert.

transl.: You see that 7 workers are still at the mill (possibly a small private party?) while 7 others are already on their way home and will take the arriving ETA177. Coal and iron ore are still sufficiently available and with the arrival of the new shift, production will continue.


http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=2758&pid=37197#pid37197

I.e., that iron ore mine needs coal, iron ore and workers to produce steel and workers (in return).

Here´s a picture:

Image
http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=440

George wrote:
But it is impossible to make industries to produce passengers or to make passengers affect production (for industries which have 3 input and 2 output already).

That limitation is the only problem.

regards
Michael

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:28 pm 
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George wrote:
athanasios wrote:
Scenario editor should be free from restrictions as we may want to create real life conditions.
From all restrictions? This point should be discussed first, be cause I do not like it. What conditions are hard for you in the editor?
Who else thinks the same?
Keeping positioning free from restrictions in the scenario editor would be good for a player who wants to recreate a real life setting where those industries are still located inside a city. The only problem would be that once the player starts to play that special scenario in a game, the zoning restrictions would be applied and the industries would start to die after 6 months (or 1 year or 2 years or whatever is decided).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:43 pm 
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2Wally:
Could you write this page first?
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... neralRules

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:06 pm 
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George wrote:
2Wally:
Could you write this page first?
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... neralRules

Sure, but what information would you like me to include for Cargoes replacement and Industry replacement?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:42 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
George wrote:
2Wally:
Could you write this page first?
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... neralRules

Sure, but what information would you like me to include for Cargoes replacement and Industry replacement?
That there are new cargoes and new industries which are defined by the ECS.

That page in general should guide the user into WHAT should he EXPECT in his game when he installs ECS vectors. These are things like stockpiles that limit cargo accepting, production levels that define production and accepting limits, production control with fast close down of unserviced industries, location restrictions, other features and effects. And new cargoes and industries themselves, of cause.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:04 pm 
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George wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
George wrote:
...
...
...

Ok ... I have to think about how I am going to do this. I should have something to show you sometime tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:10 pm 
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You should also point that some default cargoes may be missing. Looks like users do not expect it :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:54 pm 
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George wrote:
You should also point that some default cargoes may be missing. Looks like users do not expect it :roll:
I'll see what I can do. While I was working on this I noticed a couple of things that you probably already have on your to-do list but I thought I'd let you know about them just in case:

If the player loads the Town Vector and any ONE of the following, but NO other vectors ...
1. Basic and Basic Arctic - the Glass Works produces glass
2. Basic Tropical - the Glass Works produces ceramics
3. Chemical - the Chemical Plant produces dyes
... Shouldn't these industries switch over to producing goods because there are no vectors loaded that accept glass, ceramics or dyes?

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