DfT report on Double Deck and Extra-Long Trains

[JamieLei]

Makes for some interesting reading

(2mb)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/wh ... alddtrains

[MHTransport]

It is always amusing to see the UK focus on Europe and never think about the Commonwealth. They spent all that effort on the British Empire but were always more interested in Europe.

We have double deck carriages in Sydney; yet they weren't even examined.

Double deck trains' biggest problem is their weight. They require such a long stopping distance that there frequency is much less then a common single deck metro train.

[Kevo00]

Double decks are infeasible in the UK because of the loading gauge, unless they are really squeezed up like BR's prototype double decker EMUs in the 1950s.

[Dave]

That's what the report tackled, Kevo00.

And infeasible isn't a word. it would be "are not feasible"

[Kevo00]

Well I was just pointing out that the report was a waste of time and money for that reason.

[Parkey]

How many wire miles does this report represent?

There's this columnlist in transport magazine somewhere who works out for every study that's performed how many miles of electrification the consultancy fee would have paid for

He's one of these militant electrification nuts, but he has a point. At least if you invest funds in infrastructure it's just that - an investment. Studies are great, but they don't carry goods or passengers.

I suspect the current DfT's rail documents easily add up to a route to scotland and back.

[JamieLei]

Do you include 3rd rail as wireless?

The report took into account four routes: London - Southampton (3rd rail), London - Brighton (3rd rail), London - Norwich (25kv) and London to Oxford (Diesel, soon to be electrified as far as Maidenhead). These are the only routes which have severe-enough overcrowding to necessitate double-deckers as a last alternative as opposed to stepping up frequency (ie: the line is saturated).

So most of this is wire-miles.

Tthe Double Deck trains would be Driving motor + Trailers, but still in fixed EMU form. They would also run off both OHLE and 3rd rail. They would also only run the long-distance express routes (ie: London, Croydon, Gatwick, Brighton) and the mainline (as branchlines would cost too much to upgrade). So lots of time for acceleration and breaking with stops about every 15-20 mins.

[Parkey]

I think the guy in question is referring to the idea of spending money on electrifying routes like the GWML and MML, which are major routes and the most obvious choice for electrification, instead spending it on study after study but otherwise taking no action.