[Univ] Generic Tram Set (v0.4)

fabca2 · Post by **fabca2** » 17 Jun 2007 20:44

Dave Worley wrote: I find that your attitude is quite typical amongst players of the game (both flavours) - you seem to be saying "give me a reason to use it", whereas you should be saying "you design it, and I'll use it, somehow".

No, this is not my attitude, look at dev/tram thread, you will see that I'm a big defender of tram, I love tram. I will use tram...
it's just I would like to have greater difference between busses and trams.
in our cities, when a tram line exist, it's often shown as a major line (biger capacity etc...) on the map, like a subway line...

Just to be clear : I don't ask to have REAL value, I just ask a little bit interresting (and costy).
but in every case, I will love to use tram, especialy articulated tram ! when they will be ready.

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 17 Jun 2007 20:59

I'll just use the UKTS as an example here, the current test version uses real capacities. While this is fine for the earlier trams like those that operate on the blackpool system but for trams like the Sheffield Supertram using a real capacity is ridiculous, a capacity of 240 is just too much for TTD.

I do however see that Trams need a bigger capacity than buses to give them that edge in TTD (which can't be gained by giving them right of way like in real life) So the capacities of later trams will probably be about half what the real capacity is, so the Supertram will have about 120, more than a large bus like the Scania Omnibus in HOVS therefore giving a reason for people to use a tram instead of a bus.

Just thought I'd add that

Post by **Dave** » 17 Jun 2007 21:07

fabca2 wrote:No, this is not my attitude, look at dev/tram thread, you will see that I'm a big defender of tram, I love tram. I will use tram...

I realise this sounded a little harsh. Please accept my humble apologies.

it's just I would like to have greater difference between busses and trams.
in our cities, when a tram line exist, it's often shown as a major line (biger capacity etc...) on the map, like a subway line...

I see what you mean, but we shouldn't get away from the fact that apart from the fact one uses rails, there isn't that much difference at all. Its just a matter of choice, and that they're ebtter on longer distances. I think aRV would be better for showing this.

Post by **Dave** » 17 Jun 2007 21:09

Ameecher wrote:I do however see that Trams need a bigger capacity than buses to give them that edge in TTD (which can't be gained by giving them right of way like in real life) So the capacities of later trams will probably be about half what the real capacity is, so the Supertram will have about 120, more than a large bus like the Scania Omnibus in HOVS therefore giving a reason for people to use a tram instead of a bus.

Double post.. So shoot me...

The thing is the Supertram is two car, and thus 60+60. The highest number in this set is 70, and that's single car. I think that's enough to advocate its usage.

EDIT: See this glaring correction:

Gavin says:
Supertram is 3 car you twat
Dave says:
well whatever spazz man

athanasios · Post by **athanasios** » 18 Jun 2007 01:53

Dave Worley wrote:Double post.. So shoot me...

With gladness!

Big trams with 5 cars can carry more passengers than a normal bus. I cannot say with certaintly the can exceed the capacity of an articulated trolley or bus. Especially articulated double deckers.

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 18 Jun 2007 02:10

How about giving trams just a small capacity and speed boost and running costs boost. Maybe 20% for each. That would make trams more usable for distances a little longer than what busses can handle. This way you would use busses in smaller towns, and trams in bigger cities, with more space between the stops.

thgergo · Post by **thgergo** » 18 Jun 2007 08:37

LordOfThePigs wrote:How about giving trams just a small capacity and speed boost and running costs boost. Maybe 20% for each. That would make trams more usable for distances a little longer than what busses can handle. This way you would use busses in smaller towns, and trams in bigger cities, with more space between the stops.

Trams usually drives with 50 km/h, I havent heard any tram witch goes more than 70km/h. Note these speeds in km/h not in mph. I agree a 45mph tram - witch speed in km/h is 72 - is way too slow in TTD scale, so futuristic trams should reach 60 or 70mph.
Tram`s unique speciality should be the capacity, like everyone have mentioned it... So trams would be ideal for highly usaged downtown areas, like in reality.

athanasios · Post by **athanasios** » 19 Jun 2007 03:06

They can go 70km/hr but this doesn't happen when they share lane with cars: they can't stop quickly when they push the brakes. They go fast when truck is separate from road and no junctions ahead = that is very rare inside a city course.

stevenh · Post by **stevenh** » 19 Jun 2007 04:10

Zephyris wrote:A little teaser...
Code hijacked from hirotrams to test the sprites.

Neat... When does OTTD get aRVs?

Post by **WWTBAM** » 19 Jun 2007 06:09

already. look around, im pretty sure there was something in the general ottd forum.

Post by **Rubidium** » 19 Jun 2007 06:30

stevenh wrote:When does OTTD get aRVs?

Like 8 days ago.

Coxx · Post by **Coxx** » 20 Jun 2007 10:32

I think this is a really great project, because it goes strait for the use of trams in the game.

I have played around with it a little bit, and it doesnt work properly with LV 4, resulting heavy prices for the trams. (on Nightly r10183)
But It was nice to use it with HOVS.
Just one thing on the down side. It would be nice to have a tram right from the start 1920. The Balough is fine, so maybe a `Balough Mk I`with slitly reduced stats or just setting the indroduction date of the Balough tram back to 1920, and consequently introducing the next models Jubilee and Royal some five years earlier, early 50´s and around 1975, like second goods-tram model.

I think this would make this set even more atractive for those who use different trainsets.

2cc would be cool and I think the roof looks a little bit naked without a pantograph.

But, keep up that good work.

Zephyris · Post by **Zephyris** » 23 Jun 2007 23:48

Sorry for the slow progress, post-exam celebrations have been eating my time

. Vehicle statistics and graphics are easy to tweak later, my priority at the moment is getting articulated road vehicles to work, which is proving to be more difficult than I anticipated.... I shall keep you updated!

RainierWatcher · Post by **RainierWatcher** » 26 Jun 2007 06:26

Can you change the rate of loading? For a 60 passenger tram 5 per go is really slow, particularly if you want to feed an airport or something. Plus trams probably load faster than buses anyway.

Also they should really use realistic acceleration, but thats probably for somewhere else.

DJ Nekkid · Post by **DJ Nekkid** » 26 Jun 2007 21:44

tbh, i can't really see the use of theese trams... atleast compared to RV4 or similar. in the 1960-70's it's no problem to get a 100+ bus that go 100kmh. when the tram of the time got a capacity of 40 and 72km/h they don't really cut it.
Example:

pass-destinations patch, 2 airports, and about 5 tram stops in each town. i can fill the tram tracks with trams and they will fill up at the stations.

on the other hand, if i use the large busses they work like a charm.

so; if this tram is usable, it need some serious bumpage.

otherwhise, a great idea, and it should be "in trunk", but imho it need some rework regarding capacities to really compete to the "use generated" road vehicles

Post by **WWTBAM** » 27 Jun 2007 07:35

7of9 wrote:tbh, i can't really see the use of theese trams... atleast compared to RV4 or similar. in the 1960-70's it's no problem to get a 100+ bus that go 100kmh. when the tram of the time got a capacity of 40 and 72km/h they don't really cut it.
Example:

pass-destinations patch, 2 airports, and about 5 tram stops in each town. i can fill the tram tracks with trams and they will fill up at the stations.

on the other hand, if i use the large busses they work like a charm.

so; if this tram is usable, it need some serious bumpage.

otherwhise, a great idea, and it should be "in trunk", but imho it need some rework regarding capacities to really compete to the "use generated" road vehicles

the idea is that they will be there to suplement the default Vehicles for newbies that dont know about newgrfs. I would still use them anyway as they look cool.

Post by **Dave** » 28 Jun 2007 14:00

7of9 wrote:tbh, i can't really see the use of theese trams... atleast compared to RV4 or similar. in the 1960-70's it's no problem to get a 100+ bus that go 100kmh. when the tram of the time got a capacity of 40 and 72km/h they don't really cut it.
Example:

pass-destinations patch, 2 airports, and about 5 tram stops in each town. i can fill the tram tracks with trams and they will fill up at the stations.

on the other hand, if i use the large busses they work like a charm.

so; if this tram is usable, it need some serious bumpage.

otherwhise, a great idea, and it should be "in trunk", but imho it need some rework regarding capacities to really compete to the "use generated" road vehicles

And for those of us that don't use LV4? Come on please... The world doesn't revolve around LV4... Or you for that matter. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean I wouldn't. If you seriously want some trams to go with LV4, why don't you get George to draw some, or - SHOCK HORROR - make an effort yourself!?

Coxx · Post by **Coxx** » 29 Jun 2007 11:46

For some reason Generic tram and LV 4 dont go together anyway. This combination result exorbitant prices for the Generic trams.
(Serbian tram for comparsion, they dont affect the prices)

But it works fine with HOVS. Just the stand in 1920´s tram is much to cheap.

Edit: using r10358

Post by **WWTBAM** » 29 Jun 2007 13:13

Lv4 makes vehicles expensive and his other projects have similar affects.

Zephyris · Post by **Zephyris** » 12 Jul 2007 18:29

New release! This is a "coding" release, some of the graphics need repaing - please don't comment of any graphics glitches, there are lots and I will be fixing them!!!

Comments on capacity, speeds, running costs etc. are very welcome. Please note that [capacity of articulated vehicles]=[capacity displayed at purchase]*[number of vehicles]. This means the artiulated trams have very high capacities and will need changing. Suggestions for the more obscure properties (see: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... adVehicles) are also welcome, most of these are not yet set.[/url]

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[Univ] Generic Tram Set (v0.4)

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