Priority Signal

[bobingabout]

the idea is for a "Reversed Combo Pre-signal" AKA Priority signal. the way it works is that you place an entrance pre-signal on the low priority lane, and a priority signal on the high priority lane. the priority signals are stackable like a combo. in a sence this 5th signal type is more of a pre-signal extension, making it a 4th pre-signal signal type.

the way the logic of the priority signal should work is, you have a standard signal in the direction you want, and a virtual combo pre-signal in the oposite direction. exampes below. the top junction in the screenshot is a representation of how it should work, and the bottom 1 is how it would look when complete.

Note: the key note is VIRTUAL combo signal in the oposite direction, a reversing train should see the back of a 1 way signal, and therefore not be able to pass. as for 2 way signals, i don't know how it would work exactly... but then you shouldn't need 2 way priority signals anyway.



Note: Screenshots were edited in paintbrush.

i came up with this method to minimise the number of new signal types required, while reducing the size of a properly functioning train network, as you can see, its only 1 extra signal type. it is possable that a low priory signal could be invented, in which case it would basicly duplicate the function of an entrance signal. you could then however add special logic to prevent priority signals interfering with a pre-signal junctions, but i don't see how this is required.

[Sacro]

i spy double posting...

[bobingabout]

meh. i had the idea in the other topic, then decided to create a new topic for it. its not exactly double posting, double posting would be 2 posts following each other in the same topic, not 2 posts in seperate topics about the same thing...

anyway, criticise the idea, not what i did you turnip.

[sidew]

i like your idea.

This keep the network more compact than the older solution

[klogg]

I like it.
What would happen if a two tracks are merged
and both have priority signals because there is a depot exit
shortly behind the mergepoint?

klogg

[bobingabout]

urge... i can't be arsed to draw it all, but, you'd basicly have a pre-signal entrance to all the entrances to the mainline from branch lines, either a branch line or depot, then add a few priority signals on the mainline infront of the junction.

remember, the all special signals come before the junction, not after it. so priority aka non-stop lines use priority signals, and lesser priority lines use a pre-signal entrance. all before the junction.

like this:

D = depot
s = signal
p = priority signal
e = pre-signal entrance

all for traffic going from left to right.

[bobingabout]

been experimenting with some signal graphics for a slightly new signal format I'm working on, which should include pre-signals, my Priority signal, Yellow state signals, and alternate PBS graphics...

here is the first demo, first like shows all directions, with a "Red, Yellow, Green, Other" order, other currently being my working templates, but with an extention posability. second row starts with "Normal signal, Pre-entrance, Pre-exit, Pre-combo, Priority" folowed by the same again, as some crazy PBS experiment, I'll probably do a few more designs of each, then we can probably have a poll.

[Sacro]

They are train signals, not traffic lights, and therefore go (yellow) green yellow red.

[bobingabout]

not according to this:

posted on the yellow signal state thread.

also, the original TTD and normal OTTD signals place red above green.

[hertogjan]

Actually, some time ago, I've attempted to write a piece of code that would exactly do what is proposed here. I abandoned the work since I did not get it to work properly.

[Dave]

bobingabout:

Sacro is right - the Green and Red lights on that signal demonstration above are reversed.

When Double Yellows change to green, the ligh in the middle comes on.

EDIT: The original TTD graphics also do not. The red light is at the bottom.

[Brianetta]

You'd never see a red panel under a signal unless you wanted the train to stop there as a matter of course. Red can't be a priority, it's the railway colour for danger - pretty much universally. Wave a red flag, show a red sign, or a red light, and a train will stop.

[bobingabout]

yer, this is a "work in progress"... on the design side, I've flipped the signals so green is at the top now. and i'm playing with different coloured signs.

EDIT:

my thoughts is "New Signals GRF format".

i have yet to devise a format for this GRF, but rather than a giant block of unspecified sprites, i am thinking of adding an NFO component, to make it a little easier to add the sprites.

some things this new format will probably include:
upto 4 signal states instead of the standard 2 (EG Red, green, yellow and other instead of just red and green.)
upto 8 signal types(eg pre-signals) including normal signals, and upto 7 different types of pre-signal, the standard 3, my new priority signal, and upto 3 more for future expansion.
Signal lights and semephores.
standard and PBS(and possably others for future expansion)(basicly making 16 rather than 8 types)
Time relative signals (use new graphics for signals built after a spacific date)

thoughts?

of cause if i use a GRF NFO component, i'll need to co-ordinate it with patchman.

[DaleStan]

Action 5 already has a signals type. Figure out how many signals you need, and just increase <num-sprites> appropriately. Provided the first 240 match the 240 that TTDPatch currently defines, things will remain perfectly compatible, at least until/unless Patchman wants to add a new signal type too.

[bobingabout]

thats the thing, i looked at the format, it defintly won't do the job i am wanting it to, for a start it only does red and green signals, and i'm wanting to allow yellow too, plus it doesn't allow the replacement of default signals, which seems a bit silly to me, it goes and starts stright at pre-signal entries.

attached is a more upto-date thing.

along the top is me classic default signals, being green yellow red instead of red yellow green.
then the second line theres a normal, entry, exit, combo, priority, blank, random, blank, PBS, PBS+Entry, PBS+Exit, PBS+Combo, PBS+Priority.
next line is the original signals for reference
4th line is the 4 light signals, but with a new signpost for the pre-signals, middle 1 is a demonstation or light colours, then the end 5 are normal, a demonstation why i changed the signs, an entry for some reason, a PBS idea to change the top yellow to purple(or blue) for the duel yellow lights, and the last 1 is an idea to make the pre-signal indacator a 5th light to save space. (which will require a whole new colour based scheme, like in the first 5, and probably something painted on the back so we can tell the signal type when its facing away from us).
and the last thing is a bunch of signs a painted, so we have a lot to choose from.

if everyone agrees on using the same shape sign for the pre-signals, and distinguising them purely through colours, then i'll re-draw my own sign in a rounder shape. but thats not stopping anyone from drawing their own signals afterwards , or me making more than 1 set for that mater...

[Brianetta]

You know what would be nice? Some hint on the four signals to the far right, so that the player can see what aspect is lit.

[DaleStan]

thats the thing, i looked at the format, it defintly won't do the job i am wanting it to, for a start it only does red and green signals, and i'm wanting to allow yellow too

So signals 240..<whatever> are the yellow versions of 0..239.

plus it doesn't allow the replacement of default signals

That's because the default signals are replaced with action A, not action 5.

[Hazelrah]

You know what would be nice? Some hint on the four signals to the far right, so that the player can see what aspect is lit.

Maybe just a single pixel "peek-a-boo" through the back?

-Hazelrah

[bobingabout]

erm update o n graphics things, what you think?

[Hazelrah]

Looking good, but umm... are those striped signals on the right hand side supposed to be the "hint" that Brianetta was talking about. It just seems kind of silly that the back of the signal is more visible than the front, but maybe that's just me.

-Hazelrah