Trains vs the rest, discuss re 3D TT

[Vernon Moorhouse]

This follows on from a thought I had in one of the other threads, in
discussing 3D TT (though it applies equally to TTO and TTDLX) we seem to
be concentrating almost entirely on how the *rail* network will operate.
The trucks, buses, planes and boats are getting hardly a mention. Of
course in RT2 you could only simulate trains, which was one of the
game's weaknesses (you couldn't haul coal from several mines close
spaced to a rail head then trunk them by rail to the distant power
stations).

I must admit playing TTDLX my efforts do tend to revolve around building
up a successful rail network. If I bother with buses/lorries at all it
is usually to relieve pressure at busy passenger rail stations when the
trains can't cope, railhead service as mentioned above, or transport
goods from a factory into the city centre. Planes are okay when you have
lots of money and want to make a load more (assuming you haven't upset
all the local authorities by then and can't clear enough flat space to
build the airport). Boats are too slow and boring. But the sight of a
train weaving across the landscape, through tunnels and valleys is what
captivates me most.

Even Peter hasn't really said much on how boat and air transport will
figure in 3D TT, though we have caught a glimpse in the Alphas of how
trucking will look. Maybe Peter should rename the game 3D RRT and forget
the boats, planes and automobiles (though let's have trams please)??
--
Vern Moorhouse

Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

[Kmarcks]

"Vernon Moorhouse" <v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AmhG$FAlqNg4EwLY@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk...

train weaving across the landscape, through tunnels and valleys is what
captivates me most.

Even Peter hasn't really said much on how boat and air transport will
figure in 3D TT, though we have caught a glimpse in the Alphas of how
trucking will look. Maybe Peter should rename the game 3D RRT and forget
the boats, planes and automobiles (though let's have trams please)??
--
Vern Moorhouse

Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

Mmmmmm I dont mind what you do with the navy, but keep the buses PLEASE.
Being an ex-bus driver I suppose Im bias . I would like to see some
double-deckers of the Leyland Atlantean variety, and some Express Coaches as
apposed to normal service buses.
Im not too concerned with the cash side of it, I simply like
playing with trains. And TTDLX gets me as close as I can get for now. Bye
the way, dont tell those guys who are working on 3DTT to take it easy, I
want them to hurry up.
How about the military side? What about factories that build tanks
ETC. They need transporting, have you ever seen a loco pulling flat cars
loaded with army equipment? its impresive.

Kmarcks

[Vernon Moorhouse]

In article <85qp6s$fh...@neptunium.btinternet.com>, Kmarcks
<k...@yahoo.com> writes

Mmmmmm I dont mind what you do with the navy, but keep the buses PLEASE.
Being an ex-bus driver I suppose Im bias . I would like to see some
double-deckers of the Leyland Atlantean variety, and some Express Coaches as
apposed to normal service buses.

Bristol RELH coaches in Royal Blue livery or original United, or United
Counties livery (oops, showing my age again).
--
Vernon Moorhouse

Visit my Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

[Rijk]

Vernon Moorhouse <v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> schreef in berichtnieuws
AmhG$FAlqNg4E...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk...

This follows on from a thought I had in one of the other threads, in
discussing 3D TT (though it applies equally to TTO and TTDLX) we seem to
be concentrating almost entirely on how the *rail* network will operate.
The trucks, buses, planes and boats are getting hardly a mention. Of
course in RT2 you could only simulate trains, which was one of the
game's weaknesses (you couldn't haul coal from several mines close
spaced to a rail head then trunk them by rail to the distant power
stations).

I must admit playing TTDLX my efforts do tend to revolve around building
up a successful rail network. If I bother with buses/lorries at all it
is usually to relieve pressure at busy passenger rail stations when the
trains can't cope, railhead service as mentioned above, or transport
goods from a factory into the city centre. Planes are okay when you have
lots of money and want to make a load more (assuming you haven't upset
all the local authorities by then and can't clear enough flat space to
build the airport). Boats are too slow and boring. But the sight of a
train weaving across the landscape, through tunnels and valleys is what
captivates me most.

Even Peter hasn't really said much on how boat and air transport will
figure in 3D TT, though we have caught a glimpse in the Alphas of how
trucking will look. Maybe Peter should rename the game 3D RRT and forget
the boats, planes and automobiles (though let's have trams please)??
--
Vern Moorhouse

Planes! Don't forget the planes..what is more beautiful than seeing a Yate
Haugan settling down at my airport, in one second from 2330 km/h to
zero.....oke, a Chimaera MagLev zooming trough your hills, you're right. But
I think that planes should be kept in 3DTT...In fact al four ways of
transportation may remain. It adds much diversity to the game and forces you
to think creative when space is scarce...I really enjoy having those
ponderous ships when having to many goods and to little space and
hoovercrafts are really handy when water is omnipresent. I plead for keeping
them all four in 3DTT...as it would be to RRT2-like otherwise and it gives
the player (=me) more freedom in planning your transportnetwork.

Kind regards,

Alex R.

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Hey, Vernon, don't spread naughty rumours here!

Of course 3DTT will have trucks, boats and planes.
The reason for discussing railroad so extensively is IMO that it has the
most complex structure and currently we have begun implementation on this
part. And - of course since TT has big weight on trains the fans of this
game are commonly fans of railroad.
And: the railroad is available long time before trucks and planes. So
starting with it is not unusual. Only boats are available even earlier. -
And horsecoaches. Prepare to meet them in the game.
As you noticed well, there is already a test truck just as there is a test
train. Trucking and railroading use the same algorithms so everything I do
for trains is available for trucks, too: double ways, tunnels, bridges...
Planes and ships will be completely different because they use no ways. We
will turn our attention to them later.

Peter

[Vernon Moorhouse]

In article <85ques$1lp7...@reader3.wxs.nl>, Rijk <familie.r...@wxs.nl>
writes

Planes! Don't forget the planes..what is more beautiful than seeing a Yate
Haugan settling down at my airport, in one second from 2330 km/h to
zero.....oke, a Chimaera MagLev zooming trough your hills, you're right. But
I think that planes should be kept in 3DTT...In fact al four ways of
transportation may remain. It adds much diversity to the game and forces you
to think creative when space is scarce...I really enjoy having those
ponderous ships when having to many goods and to little space and
hoovercrafts are really handy when water is omnipresent. I plead for keeping
them all four in 3DTT...as it would be to RRT2-like otherwise and it gives
the player (=me) more freedom in planning your transportnetwork.

Don't worry it was somewhat tongue in cheek - as I said in my original

post the lack of anything other than trains made RT2 very limited.
Particularly if you are simulating a real area then obviously a town or
village at the top of a steep hill will need to be accessed by road
rather than rail.

I guess if you have an Island scenario then the ships are useful - I
wonder if Peter will make it so you can actually load your road vehicles
on them (C&C style) and ferry from one location to another?
--
Vernon Moorhouse

Visit my Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

[Bill Hayles]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:37:57 +0000, Vernon Moorhouse
<v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> wrote:

This follows on from a thought I had in one of the other threads, in
discussing 3D TT (though it applies equally to TTO and TTDLX) we seem to
be concentrating almost entirely on how the *rail* network will operate.
The trucks, buses, planes and boats are getting hardly a mention.

I don't know how typical I am, but FWIW in TTDLX I use rail for over 90%
of my business. I use road to service low production resources (such as
an Iron Ore Mine producing 40 tonnes a month) or for local bus services
within big towns. I use the occasional boat where it seems worth while,
but I never use aircraft. Airports are just too big to place sensibly
near a town, and aircraft are hard to make profitable.

To make aircraft more viable, you would need to introduce the concept of
feeder services (i.e. buses from the town to the airport).

I've tried to do this under TTDLX, but never with success.


From Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
Bill Hayles
bill...@ctv.es

[Bill Hayles]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:43:04 +0000, Vernon Moorhouse
<v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <85qp6s$fh...@neptunium.btinternet.com>, Kmarcks
k...@yahoo.com> writes

Mmmmmm I dont mind what you do with the navy, but keep the buses PLEASE.
Being an ex-bus driver I suppose Im bias . I would like to see some
double-deckers of the Leyland Atlantean variety, and some Express Coaches as
apposed to normal service buses.

Bristol RELH coaches in Royal Blue livery or original United, or United
Counties livery (oops, showing my age again).

London RTs and RFs in green; maybe an STL or two?
From Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
Bill Hayles
bill...@ctv.es

[Nicholas Allan]

How about the ability to design the livery on the vehicle using a standard
paint package e.g. Paint Shop Pro or even the Windows standard Paint? Then
the company look could become very individual as opposed to generic red,
blue, etc.

Many thanks,

Nick Allan
========
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
Bill Hayles <bill...@ctv.es> wrote in message
news:9l838sg63movj6p54ai3epn5p1pm5k7mq0@4ax.com...

On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:43:04 +0000, Vernon Moorhouse
v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <85qp6s$fh...@neptunium.btinternet.com>, Kmarcks
k...@yahoo.com> writes

Mmmmmm I dont mind what you do with the navy, but keep the buses PLEASE.
Being an ex-bus driver I suppose Im bias . I would like to see some
double-deckers of the Leyland Atlantean variety, and some Express
Coaches as
apposed to normal service buses.

Bristol RELH coaches in Royal Blue livery or original United, or United
Counties livery (oops, showing my age again).

London RTs and RFs in green; maybe an STL or two?
From Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
Bill Hayles
bill...@ctv.es

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Bill Hayles schrieb in Nachricht ...

On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:37:57 +0000, Vernon Moorhouse
v...@moorhouse0.demon.co.uk> wrote:

This follows on from a thought I had in one of the other threads, in
discussing 3D TT (though it applies equally to TTO and TTDLX) we seem to
be concentrating almost entirely on how the *rail* network will operate.
The trucks, buses, planes and boats are getting hardly a mention.


I don't know how typical I am, but FWIW in TTDLX I use rail for over 90%
of my business. I use road to service low production resources (such as
an Iron Ore Mine producing 40 tonnes a month) or for local bus services
within big towns. I use the occasional boat where it seems worth while,
but I never use aircraft. Airports are just too big to place sensibly
near a town, and aircraft are hard to make profitable.

Aircraft is the most profitable transport form of all in TT, but it is hard
to establish because you need a big flat space near town center. If you
succeed in flattening the nearby hills the town council hates you and does
not allow to build the airport.

To make aircraft more viable, you would need to introduce the concept of
feeder services (i.e. buses from the town to the airport).

I've tried to do this under TTDLX, but never with success.

This is very hard to do since you have to build the airport far away from
city center for not accepting away the passengers and therefore the bus has
to drive a very long way making the route not profitable.

But the economy model of 3DTT will support this kind of service because the
passengers do not disappear at the first station where the vehicle stops.

Peter

[Bill Hayles]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:45:08 +0100, "Peter J. Dobrovka"
<dobro...@t-online.de> wrote:

But the economy model of 3DTT will support this kind of service because the
passengers do not disappear at the first station where the vehicle stops.

That is, if I may say so, a major improvement.
Thank you.



From Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
Bill Hayles
bill...@ctv.es

[Stevie D]

Bill Hayles wrote:

To make aircraft more viable, you would need to introduce the
concept of feeder services (i.e. buses from the town to the airport).

I've tried to do this under TTDLX, but never with success.

AFAICT, there is no way to run a proper feeder bus, so I use a
metaphorical one instead!

Build your airport. Place a 1x5 station next to it, heading into the
town. Build a bus station at the town end of your choochoo station, then
dynamite the choochoo station. Et voilà! A metaphorical feeder bus!

--
Blow your mind ... smoke gunpowder

email address spam-trapped
see if yooo can spot it

[Stevie D]

"Peter J. Dobrovka" wrote:

But the economy model of 3DTT will support this kind of service
because the passengers do not disappear at the first station where
the vehicle stops.

I'm coming round to like your plan, but there's still a few things I'm
not sure about.

If there are several different ways to get from Wossnameville to
Thingummy City, how will the passengers decide which one?
- First one to arrive?
- Direct train if there is one, or least number of changes?
- Whichever is *expected* to be quicker (and if so, how do you work that
one out?)?
- All the above in various ratios?
- Random?

Do passengers mind where in Thingummy City they end up, or is the
important thing just that they get there?

--
Blow your mind ... smoke gunpowder

email address spam-trapped
see if yooo can spot it

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Stevie D schrieb in Nachricht <38851184.B451E...@york.ac.oook>...

"Peter J. Dobrovka" wrote:

But the economy model of 3DTT will support this kind of service
because the passengers do not disappear at the first station where
the vehicle stops.

I'm coming round to like your plan, but there's still a few things I'm
not sure about.

If there are several different ways to get from Wossnameville to
Thingummy City, how will the passengers decide which one?

A kind of pathfinding algorithm.

- First one to arrive?
- Direct train if there is one, or least number of changes?
- Whichever is *expected* to be quicker (and if so, how do you work that
one out?)?
- All the above in various ratios?

All above in various ration. Business people like to travel fast, normal
people travel for cheap. You will never see these differences in the
passenger list but they will exist.

- Random?

no.

Do passengers mind where in Thingummy City they end up, or is the
important thing just that they get there?

The pathfinding goes from building to building!

Peter
--
Die 3. Dimension der Strategiespiele:
http://www.digitalprojects.com/way-x

[Bill Hayles]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:16:57 +0000, Stevie D <sjd...@york.ac.oook>
wrote:

Build your airport. Place a 1x5 station next to it, heading into the
town. Build a bus station at the town end of your choochoo station, then
dynamite the choochoo station. Et voilà! A metaphorical feeder bus!

Yes, but it would be even better if it could be done without a (minor)
cheat.

From Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
Bill Hayles
bill...@ctv.es

[Stevie D]

"Peter J. Dobrovka" wrote:

All above in various ration. Business people like to travel fast,
normal people travel for cheap. You will never see these differences
in the passenger list but they will exist.

The pathfinding goes from building to building!

How easy will it be to know where the passengers want to go?


--
Blow your mind ... smoke gunpowder

email address spam-trapped
see if yooo can spot it

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Stevie D schrieb in Nachricht <38864D6F.4F839...@york.ac.oook>...

"Peter J. Dobrovka" wrote:

All above in various ration. Business people like to travel fast,
normal people travel for cheap. You will never see these differences
in the passenger list but they will exist.


The pathfinding goes from building to building!


How easy will it be to know where the passengers want to go?

Impossible - as in reality.
You will have to think logical and find out by yourself: "Here is a big
town, there is a big town - this could be lucrative."
Industries will be somewhat different. You can ask them.

Peter