3DTT - Debate now in session..............

[Paul Wright]

with a list you can't reply, an egroup would work better

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Rémi Denis <rden...@pop3.multi1mania2.com> wrote in message
news:84dl2f$699$1@news6.isdnet.net...
: That's sure that most posts about 3DTT are strictly technical since the
: Alpha 6 release and that many people don't like technical stuff, but
opening
: a new NG which won't be carried by our ISPs so that we won't be able to
read
: it, and that nobody will subscribe to - except people from AGMT-T *could*
: have a very bad effect on the 3DTT future development.
:
: I'd like to add that while debate about 3DTT dealt about gameplay, you
were
: glad to give your own ideas and suggestions, now that it became technical,
: you seem to think it's not interesting (Okay, it's less) and you drop
Peter
: alone with his team. I find (that) that isn't very nice.
:
: If there is still very much AGMT-T subscribers who are for Edward's
: suggestion, it could be a good idea to create a 3DTT mailing-list instead
of
: a true NG, as every one can subscribe to a mailing-list as soon as it's
: created.
: ListBot is quite good at doing this job, although it now belongs to M.S.N.
:
: Finally, as Rick said, this would probably be better to open an NG when
3DTT
: would become more advanced. Maybe, it should be opened now, so as to «win»
: part of the time which will be needed so as to be carried by our ISPs.
:
:
: I hope I won't have done many spelling mistakes in this post.
: Please count me as [against].
: --
: Rémi Denis-Courmont
: someone available from TT-related things translation into French
: http://www.multimania.com/rdenis/
:
:
:

[Spider]

The fact that technicalities are not interesting is simply because if you
are someone who has not had any >problems, then you may not want to read

things about ttsetup.exe and OpenGL drivers.

There have been many useless threads such as the one which people were
posting "meow" and "bark" in the message. Thats plain bulls***. Atleast that
thread had a purpose.

I for one don't, but that *does not* then conclude that I want a group
split.

Right, exactly right.

--Spider--

[Edward Bernard]

Paul Wright <ask...@for.it> wrote in message
news:O00dW4kU$GA.282@cpmsnbbsa02...

with a list you can't reply, an egroup would work better

If from this debate, there is the consensus that 3DTT debate is blocking the
NG, perhaps an egroup would be the solution.
Of course it has its downside. There would be no chance of cross posting
things then. Unless 3...@egroups.com was inserted as the Cc in all posts
here. It wouldn't work the other way though.

Eddie
Remember, that these are *not* neccesarily my personal views. I am remaining
impartial, and presenting the case for all sides.
-- http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net

[Graham Cox]

I'm definatly against it. Having a seperate ng for it will simply mean
that there will be another discussion point for it. The people who
don't get this ng will still post to agmtt, or any other ng that they
currently do, and so will not solve the problem. Also, what about the
people who need to post to it. What happens if Peter's ISP doesn't
carry it. Then the developers of 3DTT will not be able to discuss it
in it's own ng. There is absoultly no need to do this, so there's no
point in doing so.
--
Graham Cox
c...@grahama99.freeserve.co.uk.antispam
Remove antispam, you get the idea
ICQ# 24532124

[Paul Wright]

and wahat about some ppl who hafta sit here, and listen to pointless drivel
about seting up 3dtt which they aren't interested in ithe slightest, like
eddie said, by doing it now, petes isp will carry it by the time it's big, i
can nearly garentee you'll need a group, just when do you accept it

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Graham Cox <cox_@_grahama99_._freeserve_._co_._uk> wrote in message
news:386a2c33.2672278@news.freeserve.co.uk...
: I'm definatly against it. Having a seperate ng for it will simply mean
: that there will be another discussion point for it. The people who
: don't get this ng will still post to agmtt, or any other ng that they
: currently do, and so will not solve the problem. Also, what about the
: people who need to post to it. What happens if Peter's ISP doesn't
: carry it. Then the developers of 3DTT will not be able to discuss it
: in it's own ng. There is absoultly no need to do this, so there's no
: point in doing so.
: --
: Graham Cox
: c...@grahama99.freeserve.co.uk.antispam
: Remove antispam, you get the idea
: ICQ# 24532124

[Stephen Down]

Edward Bernard wrote:

And I agree that that would be the sensible and correct move, but
OTOH, people coming to this group might not be interested in TT
sequels, just the game. A group name of transport tycoon, to the
reader represents that. It does not represent any sequels. They
would not want to download messages of this sort, however, they
could then user a filter. There are many sides to this arguement, and
I am trying to present them all. Ultimately it will be extremely difficult
to come to a decision.

It doesn't seem like anyone else has had any difficulty making a decision!

Why is the third game in the TT generation any more different than the
second? Just bcos it's not made by Microprose might be a reason to have this
group transferred to a new name so we could welcome the new game with open
arms.

What would you have said if Chris Sawyer had written TT3 for another
company?

I subscribe to several newsgroups, and there are lots of subjects in each
group that I ignore, and don't download. I don't see what the difference is
with 3DTT.

[Eddie Bernard]

Stephen Down <ste...@sjd117.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

Edward Bernard wrote:
It doesn't seem like anyone else has had any difficulty making a decision!

That's because they haven't looked at all sides of the arguement. There is
certainly two sides to every tale, and this one is no exception. I have
posted costructive replies to their arguements, but they haven't replied to
them, which does not aid the cause.

Why is the third game in the TT generation any more different than the
second? Just bcos it's not made by Microprose might be a reason to have
this
group transferred to a new name so we could welcome the new game with open
arms.

Please look carefully at 3DTT. There is a *massive* difference between TTD
and 3DTT. The only thing is that the sequel has been influenced by it. 3DTT
uses the same concepts and principles, only to a much more detailed scale.
BTW, NG's, once created, can *never* be changed.

What would you have said if Chris Sawyer had written TT3 for another
company?

If it still had the name Transport Tycoon, then it would be welcome here.
The only thing is, the company that made it, might make their own newsgroup
for it, thus relieving any traffic from TT3 which may have been brought to
this group.

I subscribe to several newsgroups, and there are lots of subjects in each
group that I ignore, and don't download. I don't see what the difference
is
with 3DTT.

3DTT is a vastly different game. The difference is, that the amount of 3DTT
discussion is outweighing regular traffic. Only recently has this begun to
happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
the holidays.

Thanks,

Eddie

[Paul Wright]

this group has died down, full stop

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Eddie Bernard <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote in message
news:84llje$4fp$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
: Stephen Down <ste...@sjd117.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
: > Edward Bernard wrote:
: > It doesn't seem like anyone else has had any difficulty making a
decision!
:
: That's because they haven't looked at all sides of the arguement. There is
: certainly two sides to every tale, and this one is no exception. I have
: posted costructive replies to their arguements, but they haven't replied
to
: them, which does not aid the cause.
:
: > Why is the third game in the TT generation any more different than the
: > second? Just bcos it's not made by Microprose might be a reason to have
: this
: > group transferred to a new name so we could welcome the new game with
open
: > arms.
:
: Please look carefully at 3DTT. There is a *massive* difference between TTD
: and 3DTT. The only thing is that the sequel has been influenced by it.
3DTT
: uses the same concepts and principles, only to a much more detailed scale.
: BTW, NG's, once created, can *never* be changed.
:
: > What would you have said if Chris Sawyer had written TT3 for another
: > company?
:
: If it still had the name Transport Tycoon, then it would be welcome here.
: The only thing is, the company that made it, might make their own
newsgroup
: for it, thus relieving any traffic from TT3 which may have been brought to
: this group.
:
: > I subscribe to several newsgroups, and there are lots of subjects in
each
: > group that I ignore, and don't download. I don't see what the difference
: is
: > with 3DTT.
:
: 3DTT is a vastly different game. The difference is, that the amount of
3DTT
: discussion is outweighing regular traffic. Only recently has this begun to
: happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
: the holidays.
:
: Thanks,
:
: Eddie
:
:
:

[Spider]

Please look carefully at 3DTT. There is a *massive* difference between TTD
and 3DTT. The only thing is that the sequel has been influenced by it. 3DTT
uses the same concepts and principles, only to a much more detailed scale.
BTW, NG's, once created, can *never* be changed.

Well of what I've seen so far, I agree with you there.

If it still had the name Transport Tycoon, then it would be welcome here.

Well the name currently is 3D Transport Tycoon. Until that changes then
therefore no reason whatsoever to change.

The only thing is, the company that made it, might make their own newsgroup
for it, thus relieving any traffic from TT3 which may have been brought to
this group.

Right.

3DTT is a vastly different game. The difference is, that the amount of 3DTT
discussion is outweighing regular traffic.

Thats a bad thing? And what happens if the "regular traffic" goes away.
What is there to talk about, the game is 5 years old, for crying out loud.

Only recently has this begun to
happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
the holidays.

Are you encouraging more 3DTT traffic? heheheh

--Spider--

"If you build it, they will come if you advertise"

[Phillip Michael Jordan]

Wos is this?
I thought Way-X has their own Message Board on the website?
Why not use it?

Phillip

[Paul Wright]

cos most ppl pay for there phone calls, that and it's foreign

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Phillip Michael Jordan <pmjor...@gmx.at.REMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:84nimc$d71$6@news.netway.at...
: Wos is this?
: I thought Way-X has their own Message Board on the website?
: Why not use it?
:
: Phillip
:
:

[Eddie Bernard]

Spider wrote in message

If it still had the name Transport Tycoon, then it would be welcome here.

Well the name currently is 3D Transport Tycoon. Until that changes then
therefore no reason whatsoever to change.

I know that, but that doesn't make much sense. Do you mean that if they do
change it to something else, they would not be welcome here? It all boils
down to being that it is a completely different game. Similarities, yes, but
not a complete carbon copy.

3DTT is a vastly different game. The difference is, that the amount of
3DTT
discussion is outweighing regular traffic.

Thats a bad thing? And what happens if the "regular traffic" goes away.
What is there to talk about, the game is 5 years old, for crying out loud.

No it isn't a bad thing, active NG's attract more people, what I'm saying,
is that 3DTT discussion is perhaps not what people have come here for.

Only recently has this begun to
happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
the holidays.

Are you encouraging more 3DTT traffic? heheheh

If it is promotion and discussion the game, then why not, but the current
spate of technical problems, should really not be on here, and should be
taken to email.

Eddie
-- http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net

[Eddie Bernard]

Paul Wright <ask...@for.it> wrote in message
news:s6ulgcet5k2162@corp.supernews.com...

cos most ppl pay for there phone calls, that and it's foreign

There is an English one, but as you said, paying for calls is unacceptable.
With a NG, you can synchronize and go offline.

Eddie
-- http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Eddie Bernard schrieb in Nachricht <84llje$4f...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...

Stephen Down <ste...@sjd117.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
Edward Bernard wrote:
It doesn't seem like anyone else has had any difficulty making a
decision!

That's because they haven't looked at all sides of the arguement. There is
certainly two sides to every tale, and this one is no exception. I have
posted costructive replies to their arguements, but they haven't replied to
them, which does not aid the cause.

Maybe there is nothing to reply to "Your arguments are valid and I am
impartial" ?

[snip]

3DTT is a vastly different game.

"vastly" is very subjective. I think the basic principles do count and they
are nearly identical here.
3DTT does derive form TT because it will contain all the elements we liked
in TT and the ones we always wanted to see but didn't. In the principle it
is still the same transport simulation strategy game: Make money by running
trains, cars, planes and ships.

The difference is, that the amount of
3DTT
discussion is outweighing regular traffic. Only recently has this begun to
happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
the holidays.

Yes, but I feel also a bit uncomfortable to post here since this discussion
came up. Since I am participating not long ago, I still feel like a guest
here and if I am no liked guest...

Peter

[Vernon Moorhouse]

In article <84of2d$ap...@news04.btx.dtag.de>, Peter J. Dobrovka
<dobro...@t-online.de> writes

[SNIP]

Yes, but I feel also a bit uncomfortable to post here since this discussion
came up. Since I am participating not long ago, I still feel like a guest
here and if I am no liked guest...

As a relative newcomer here myself I am a bit uncomfortable with the way

this discussion is going. Peter is trying to do what Chris Sawyer can't
or won't do and design a worthy sequel to one of the best games ever. As
such he deserves support, encouragement and the backing of this group. I
agree matters of a technical nature such as FPS or how well the Glide
Driver's work should be confined to email, indeed I have already
exchanged email's a couple of times with Peter, hopefully feeding back
valuable information.

There is a third party discussion board accessed from the 3D TT home
page and I am checking that regularly, but that needs to be logged in
and worked online whereas here I can let Turnpike download all the
items for perusal (and reply) off line.

If anyone is not interested in 3DTT then set up a kill file to suppress
the articles

Most newsgroups (uk.railway is a good example) have articles which
border on off-topic and indeed there was recently an almighty flame war
on uk.railway on what constituted commercial posting. As I stated on
another part of this thread we have recently discussed MD Studios
Transport World (or demise thereof), RRT2, and various other strategy
games. If Peter was designing a rally game or flight sim then fair
enough but he is actually building up something we all want!

I reiterate my support for Peter posting news of developments with 3DTT
or significant news of non technical nature, or a link to a page on his
site for further details.
--
Vernon Moorhouse

Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

[Eddie Bernard]

Maybe there is nothing to reply to "Your arguments are valid and I am
impartial" ?

Impartial, perhaps not, but as I said, each argument has two sides to it, I
present the case against the presented opinions.

3DTT is a vastly different game.

"vastly" is very subjective. I think the basic principles do count and
they
are nearly identical here.
3DTT does derive form TT because it will contain all the elements we liked
in TT and the ones we always wanted to see but didn't. In the principle it
is still the same transport simulation strategy game: Make money by
running
trains, cars, planes and ships.

Yes, 3DTT does follow the basic principles, what I mean, is that it is
introducing the concepts of true 3D graphics, and a much different game
engine.

The difference is, that the amount of
3DTT
discussion is outweighing regular traffic. Only recently has this begun
to
happen, but at the moment it does appear to have died down, with it being
the holidays.

Yes, but I feel also a bit uncomfortable to post here since this
discussion
came up. Since I am participating not long ago, I still feel like a guest
here and if I am no liked guest...

Please, let me reiterate.
I enjoy 3DTT discussion on here, and I will contribute to it whenever I have
an opinion on it.
What I am referring to, is the recent amount of technical posts, which
should really have been confined to email. If a NG for 3DTT only was around,
and it was well populated, then stuff like that would be better there. As
one does not exist, then the only place for this should have been mail, like
Vernon has said below.
Peter, this is in no way an attack on you or your game. I have enjoyed
trying out the game. As many people have said, the fact that it is a TT
sequel is enough justfication for postings here, is good enough for me. I
will *not* be killfiling 3DTT related material.
My personal opinion, which you have all been waiting for is...
Yes, 3DTT should have it's own newsgroup, but for the present moment in
time, until at least Beta testing, 3DTT discussion *should* remain here.
However, if I create a 3DTT group, then the earlier it happens, the more
chance it will be on a vast number of worldwide servers, all ready for
discussion when the game is out. Surely this would be a good thing? It
wouldn't have to be used at the moment, but it could at least be created, in
time for the release of 3DTT.

Thanks very much,

Eddie
-- http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net

[Trikklennium]

Paul Wright <ask...@for.it> wrote in message
news:s6snd94b5k2149@corp.supernews.com...

this group has died down, full stop

Nope...I think its just because of the hols....many people visiting and
such......

Give it time...It'll pick up again....

Or....Maybe you could start a new thread to get a few of the lurkers
involved?


--
Rick McGreal
Life is a bunch of Roses...Complete with thorns.
tri...@transport-tycoon.co.uk
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Eddie Bernard schrieb in Nachricht <84ojet$to...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
...

Please, let me reiterate.
I enjoy 3DTT discussion on here, and I will contribute to it whenever I
have
an opinion on it.
What I am referring to, is the recent amount of technical posts, which
should really have been confined to email. If a NG for 3DTT only was
around,
and it was well populated, then stuff like that would be better there. As
one does not exist, then the only place for this should have been mail,
like
Vernon has said below.
Peter, this is in no way an attack on you or your game. I have enjoyed
trying out the game. As many people have said, the fact that it is a TT
sequel is enough justfication for postings here, is good enough for me. I
will *not* be killfiling 3DTT related material.
My personal opinion, which you have all been waiting for is...
Yes, 3DTT should have it's own newsgroup, but for the present moment in
time, until at least Beta testing, 3DTT discussion *should* remain here.
However, if I create a 3DTT group, then the earlier it happens, the more
chance it will be on a vast number of worldwide servers, all ready for
discussion when the game is out. Surely this would be a good thing? It
wouldn't have to be used at the moment, but it could at least be created,
in
time for the release of 3DTT.

OK, thanks for clarification.
As I said, I would love and be proud to have an own NG, but I doubt its
benefits. In part by technical aspect, in part by non-technical.
We could try to do one thing: You could set up a 3DTT-NG and as long as it
is not available we do cross-posting. Enhances traffic in the 3DTT-NG (to
force providers to carry it) without loosing messages. But it don't know
when does the time come we could stop the crossposting.

MY humble idea would be to rename this newsgroup and kill out microprose and
tyc, so it is called only alt.games.transport. Or to setup a new one with
this name. I don't think it makes too much sense to create a NG for a single
game, there are too many cross-references, and 3DTT is not the last one of
this type, I think.

Peter

[Paul Wright]

you *cannot* destroy or rename NG's it's impossible, and if you made a new
one, ppl would still come here

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:84ph60$eok$1@news04.btx.dtag.de...
:
: Eddie Bernard schrieb in Nachricht <84ojet$to...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
: ...
: >Please, let me reiterate.
: >I enjoy 3DTT discussion on here, and I will contribute to it whenever I
: have
: >an opinion on it.
: >What I am referring to, is the recent amount of technical posts, which
: >should really have been confined to email. If a NG for 3DTT only was
: around,
: >and it was well populated, then stuff like that would be better there. As
: >one does not exist, then the only place for this should have been mail,
: like
: >Vernon has said below.
: >Peter, this is in no way an attack on you or your game. I have enjoyed
: >trying out the game. As many people have said, the fact that it is a TT
: >sequel is enough justfication for postings here, is good enough for me. I
: >will *not* be killfiling 3DTT related material.
: >My personal opinion, which you have all been waiting for is...
: >Yes, 3DTT should have it's own newsgroup, but for the present moment in
: >time, until at least Beta testing, 3DTT discussion *should* remain here.
: >However, if I create a 3DTT group, then the earlier it happens, the more
: >chance it will be on a vast number of worldwide servers, all ready for
: >discussion when the game is out. Surely this would be a good thing? It
: >wouldn't have to be used at the moment, but it could at least be created,
: in
: >time for the release of 3DTT.
:
:
: OK, thanks for clarification.
: As I said, I would love and be proud to have an own NG, but I doubt its
: benefits. In part by technical aspect, in part by non-technical.
: We could try to do one thing: You could set up a 3DTT-NG and as long as it
: is not available we do cross-posting. Enhances traffic in the 3DTT-NG (to
: force providers to carry it) without loosing messages. But it don't know
: when does the time come we could stop the crossposting.
:
: MY humble idea would be to rename this newsgroup and kill out microprose
and
: tyc, so it is called only alt.games.transport. Or to setup a new one with
: this name. I don't think it makes too much sense to create a NG for a
single
: game, there are too many cross-references, and 3DTT is not the last one of
: this type, I think.
:
: Peter
:
:
:

[Paul Wright]

i did, titled "boring"

--
____________________________________________________________________

Paul Wright
ICQ UIN: 38986089
E-Mail: Ask me for it
___________________________________________________________________

Trikklennium <tri...@transport-tycoon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:84ql61$s86$1@gxsn.com...
:
: Paul Wright <ask...@for.it> wrote in message
: news:s6snd94b5k2149@corp.supernews.com...
: > this group has died down, full stop
:
: Nope...I think its just because of the hols....many people visiting and
: such......
:
: Give it time...It'll pick up again....
:
: Or....Maybe you could start a new thread to get a few of the lurkers
: involved?
:
:
: --
: Rick McGreal
: Life is a bunch of Roses...Complete with thorns.
: tri...@transport-tycoon.co.uk
: http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk
:
: